headers
Anthony | 1 Jun 01:02
Gravatar

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia)

On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton@...>wrote:

> 2009/5/31 Anthony <wikimail@...>:
> > I just found another statistic.  Mobile networks cover roughly 80-90% of
> the
> > worlds population.
> >
> > For them, using that mobile network is probably the most cost effective
> > solution.  For the rest, giving them enough of an education to have the
> > means to come live with the rest of us, is probably the most cost
> effective
> > solution.
>
> Those are basic mobile phone networks, not internet phones. I don't
> think voice calls and SMS messages are going to be much help.

It's mostly GSM.  You're telling me these networks can't handle the use of a
GSM modem?  If it can carry voice, it can can carry data.
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Permalink | Reply | 9 comments |
headers
Thomas Dalton | 1 Jun 01:17
Picon

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia)

2009/6/1 Anthony <wikimail <at> inbox.org>:
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton <at> gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> 2009/5/31 Anthony <wikimail <at> inbox.org>:
>> > I just found another statistic.  Mobile networks cover roughly 80-90% of
>> the
>> > worlds population.
>> >
>> > For them, using that mobile network is probably the most cost effective
>> > solution.  For the rest, giving them enough of an education to have the
>> > means to come live with the rest of us, is probably the most cost
>> effective
>> > solution.
>>
>> Those are basic mobile phone networks, not internet phones. I don't
>> think voice calls and SMS messages are going to be much help.
>
>
> It's mostly GSM.  You're telling me these networks can't handle the use of a
> GSM modem?  If it can carry voice, it can can carry data.

Fair point. I guess I'm so used to broadband I forgot about the
existence of dial up for a second! You would need to hand out phones,
laptops, and network subscriptions, though - that's getting rather
expensive just to give someone an up-to-date encyclopaedia. The
network subscription could probably be heavily discounted if you were
only able to phone one number and that was to a WMF phone line that
handled the updates (so not strictly an internet connection).

_______________________________________________
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 8 comments |
headers
Anthony | 1 Jun 02:50
Gravatar

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia)

On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton@...>wrote:

> I guess I'm so used to broadband I forgot about the
> existence of dial up for a second! You would need to hand out phones,
> laptops, and network subscriptions, though - that's getting rather
> expensive just to give someone an up-to-date encyclopaedia.

I guess I'm forgetting how cheap labor is in so many parts of the world.
Here in the US we're talking about less than a week's work, but in an Indian
call center we're talking about over a month.
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Permalink | Reply | 7 comments |
headers
Thomas Dalton | 1 Jun 03:08
Picon

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia)

2009/6/1 Anthony <wikimail@...>:
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton@...>wrote:
>
>> I guess I'm so used to broadband I forgot about the
>> existence of dial up for a second! You would need to hand out phones,
>> laptops, and network subscriptions, though - that's getting rather
>> expensive just to give someone an up-to-date encyclopaedia.
>
>
> I guess I'm forgetting how cheap labor is in so many parts of the world.
> Here in the US we're talking about less than a week's work, but in an Indian
> call center we're talking about over a month.

People working in Indian call centres probably already have internet
access, or at least can access the internet somewhere (in a internet
cafe, or something). They are generally quite highly educated (I
believe many even have degrees, but can make more money in a call
centre working for a foreign company than using their degree working
for an Indian company). For people in rural areas, there is no way
they could ever afford these things themselves, many have a
subsistence lifestyle, there is no possibility to save up for stuff.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Permalink | Reply | 6 comments |
headers
Anthony | 1 Jun 03:42
Gravatar

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia)

On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton@...>wrote:

> 2009/6/1 Anthony <wikimail@...>:
> > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton@...
> >wrote:
> >
> >> I guess I'm so used to broadband I forgot about the
> >> existence of dial up for a second! You would need to hand out phones,
> >> laptops, and network subscriptions, though - that's getting rather
> >> expensive just to give someone an up-to-date encyclopaedia.
> >
> >
> > I guess I'm forgetting how cheap labor is in so many parts of the world.
> > Here in the US we're talking about less than a week's work, but in an
> Indian
> > call center we're talking about over a month.
>
> People working in Indian call centres probably already have internet
> access, or at least can access the internet somewhere (in a internet
> cafe, or something). They are generally quite highly educated (I
> believe many even have degrees, but can make more money in a call
> centre working for a foreign company than using their degree working
> for an Indian company). For people in rural areas, there is no way
> they could ever afford these things themselves, many have a
> subsistence lifestyle, there is no possibility to save up for stuff.

The educated people in rural areas generally get themselves out.  If someone
voluntarily chooses to live a subsistence lifestyle, there's no point in
providing them with a free copy of Wikipedia in the first place.
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 5 comments |
headers
mike.wikipedia-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org | 1 Jun 12:23
Picon

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia)

On 2009-06-01 00:18, Anthony wrote:
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Thomas Dalton<thomas.dalton@...>wrote:
>
>    
>> 2009/5/31 Ray Saintonge<saintonge@...>:
>>      
>>> Assuming that I were somewhere in rural Africa, and perfectly
>>> functioning hardware with Wikipedia software loaded in dropped in front
>>> of me from the sky like a magic Coke bottle from the Gods, how much
>>> would I then be able to use that gift to get a better yield from my
>>> little patch of  poor farm-land?
>>>        
>> Wikipedia could be *part* of a solution, it's never going to be a
>> solution on its own. Wikipedia could be useful as part of an education
>> system, but it can't be the whole thing.
>>      
>
>
> I just found another statistic.  Mobile networks cover roughly 80-90% of the
> worlds population.
>
> For them, using that mobile network is probably the most cost effective
> solution.  For the rest, giving them enough of an education to have the
> means to come live with the rest of us, is probably the most cost effective
> solution.
You also found any statistics on what prices for internet access through 
mobile networks are? What proportion of the world's people can afford a 
internet connection in the first place, and how many can afford a 
connection which is useful to browse wikipedia?
I'm just curious as I know someone - a westerner - working in Africa and
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 7 comments |
headers
John at Darkstar | 1 Jun 13:03
Picon

Comparison of Wikipedia in Norsk (Bokmål) and Store Norske Leksikon

Sunday 31th of May the Norwegian newspaper VG (Verdens Gang) compared
Wikipedia in Norsk (Bokmål) and Store Norske Leksikon. The latter
encyclopedia is a large traditional paper lexicon transfered to a web
portal, together with to other lexicons; one medical and health lexicon
and one biographical lexicon. SNL has transfered from a closed licensing
model to an open licensing model, and also open up for outside
contributions.

The roundup focused on five different areas; history, culture,
entertainment, society and politics, and sport. The grades goes from 1
to 6, with 6 as the best.

History:		Wp 5 - SNL 5
(Det norske arbeiderparti, Andre verdenskrig, Vikinger, Vikingtid)

Culture:		Wp 4 - SNL 3
(Edvard Munch, Henrik Ibsen, Leif Ove Andsnes, Hjalmar Borgström,
Ungdommens kulturmønstring)

Entertainment:		Wp 5 - SNL 2
(Melodi Grand Prix, Harald Eia, Tone Damli Aaberget, Nytt på nytt,
Alexander Rybak, Idol, Wenche Foss, Sivert Høyem)

Society and politics: 	Wp 5 - SNL 3
(Kristin Halvorsen, AUF-skandalen, Rødt, Saera Khan)

Sport:			Wp 5 - SNL 3
(Marit Breivik, Tore André Flo, Tore Reginiussen, Kjetil André Aamodt,
Fotball-VM
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 2 comments |
headers
Ziko van Dijk | 1 Jun 13:34
Gravatar

Re: Comparison of Wikipedia in Norsk (Bokmål) and Store Norske Leksikon

Thank you for the information, John, do you have a link I can refer to when
I quote that?
Kind regards
Ziko

2009/6/1 John at Darkstar <vacuum@...>

> Sunday 31th of May the Norwegian newspaper VG (Verdens Gang) compared
> Wikipedia in Norsk (Bokmål) and Store Norske Leksikon. The latter
> encyclopedia is a large traditional paper lexicon transfered to a web
> portal, together with to other lexicons; one medical and health lexicon
> and one biographical lexicon. SNL has transfered from a closed licensing
> model to an open licensing model, and also open up for outside
> contributions.
>
> The roundup focused on five different areas; history, culture,
> entertainment, society and politics, and sport. The grades goes from 1
> to 6, with 6 as the best.
>
> History:                Wp 5 - SNL 5
> (Det norske arbeiderparti, Andre verdenskrig, Vikinger, Vikingtid)
>
> Culture:                Wp 4 - SNL 3
> (Edvard Munch, Henrik Ibsen, Leif Ove Andsnes, Hjalmar Borgström,
> Ungdommens kulturmønstring)
>
> Entertainment:          Wp 5 - SNL 2
> (Melodi Grand Prix, Harald Eia, Tone Damli Aaberget, Nytt på nytt,
> Alexander Rybak, Idol, Wenche Foss, Sivert Høyem)
>
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 1 comment |
headers
Thomas Dalton | 1 Jun 13:54
Picon

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia)

2009/6/1 mike.wikipedia@... <mike.wikipedia@...>:
> You also found any statistics on what prices for internet access through
> mobile networks are? What proportion of the world's people can afford a
> internet connection in the first place, and how many can afford a
> connection which is useful to browse wikipedia?
> I'm just curious as I know someone - a westerner - working in Africa and
> finding internet access hideously expensive. (chat and email ok, but she
> tells that she avoids browsing the net as the cost is per downloaded MB)

Indeed. That's why I was suggesting not using a regular ISP but rather
having them phone a WMF number to get direct access to the appropriate
data, sort of like the old BBS system. That could be subsidised/free
except for the cost of the phone call (which could hopefully be
subsidised/free, but would require negotiation with the network
provider).

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Magnus Manske | 1 Jun 14:21
Gravatar

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia)

On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 7:50 AM, Fajro <faigos@...> wrote:
> And why partner with Google? There are Free alternatives in development:
>
> http://www.apertium.org/
>
> http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Main_Page

I tried this with a "first paragraph" from en.wikipedia, translating
to Spanish and back. Worked surprisingly well, even though it renamed
"New Jersey" to "New Sweater"...

Magnus

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |

Gmane