Milos Rancic | 1 Dec 2008 01:54
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Re: 80% of our projects are failing

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 11:48 PM, geni <geniice@...> wrote:
> What is Tswana for mass spectrometry (looking at the translations for
> that term across European languages is mildly amusing) ? There are
> large areas where if you don't speak english you can't operate in that
> area. There is nothing wikimedia can do about this. Highly
> questionable if we would even want to.
>
> This doesn't mean we should give up on many languages but it does mean
> that we have to accept that the educated people from those countries
> may not want to use them and there is a significant risk of them
> becoming POV forks.

What is relatively unknown to foreigners is that even English (or any
other word language as lingua franca) is preferable language for
education, the most of people under ~18-20 and above 50 are very bad
in that lingua franca, no matter what the region is. Simply,
foreigners usually don't talk with people who don't know English (or
other world language). Even we assume that the upper limit for knowing
English will raise, it is hardly to assume that lower limit will go
significantly down. This is especially important because pidgins
(let's say, WoW or CS pidgins) locally are not translated to English
and then to a native language, but directly into a native language.
(To give a plastic example: "ASAP" will not be translated as "as soon
as possible" and then into a local language phrase, but directly to a
local language phrase.)

So, if you are able to make an internet pidgin-English project, it
could work for younger. However, en.wp is not working. To be honest, I
was thinking that the most useful Wikimedian project in Serbia is
English Wikipedia, but I was wrong. Serbian Wikipedia is the most
(Continue reading)

geni | 1 Dec 2008 02:25
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Re: 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Milos Rancic <millosh@...>:
> So, if you are able to make an internet pidgin-English project, it
> could work for younger. However, en.wp is not working. To be honest, I
> was thinking that the most useful Wikimedian project in Serbia is
> English Wikipedia, but I was wrong. Serbian Wikipedia is the most
> useful project, even it has ~30 times less articles than en.wp.

Serbian isn't a launguage. It's a dialect of the Central South Slavic
diasystem and one of the projects I had in mind when I brought up
smaller languages becoming POV forks.

You also need to considered the argument beyond wikipedia. The ratio
of scientific papers published in english compared to any eastern
European language (except to an extent Russian) is very considerable.
This is not something wikipedia can do anything about. Even if such
languages do get more extensive beyond a certain point they will be
relying on English references.

--

-- 
geni

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Neil Harris | 1 Dec 2008 03:16
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Re: EN Wikipedia Editing Statistics

Thomas Dalton wrote:
>>> Not to years but yes the English Wikipedia dumps very rarely work.
>>> De.wikipedia is starting to suffer the same issues and image database
>>> dumps don't happen.
>>>       
>> No, I think it really has been two years (September 2006 to be
>> precise).  I'm pretty sure there have been no complete dumps this
>> calendar year.  I believe there was one (or two?) full dump process
>> that claimed to run to completion in 2007 but it was later found to
>> have been truncated (i.e. it didn't really dump all of enwiki, only a
>> portion of it).
>>
>> If I am wrong and there really is a more recent complete history dump
>> of enwiki floating around somewhere, then I'd love to hear about it,
>> but I don't believe that is the case.
>>     
>
> That sounds about right to me. I think the confusion may come from
> there being lots of different dumps - the smaller dumps of enwiki do
> succeed (occasionally, at least!), it's the full dump of every
> revision of every page that fails routinely.
>
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>
>   
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geni | 1 Dec 2008 03:19
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Re: EN Wikipedia Editing Statistics

2008/12/1 Neil Harris <usenet@...>:
> Is the data replicated anywhere outside the Tampa data centre (such as
> in Amsterdam or Seoul)? If not, just one fire, flood or hurricane could
> destroy the entire en: Wikipedia.

En probably isn't that bad. We have lost commons images already.

--

-- 
geni

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phoebe ayers | 1 Dec 2008 03:24
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List summaries

New mailing list summaries:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LSS/foundation-l-archives/2008_November_16-30
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LSS/wikiEN-l-archives/2008_11_16-30

(I won't do this every time one is posted, but just in case people
missed the last note about the list summary service reboot...)

Also, a question: would weekly summaries be more useful? I'm thinking
of going back to that instead of biweekly.

Any other suggestions? Effeietsanders suggested icons for particularly
extensive discussions. I'm thinking this one for particularly
controversial topics:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Nuvola_apps_core.png ;)

best,
-- phoebe

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Jon Harald Søby | 1 Dec 2008 03:31
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Re: List summaries

Adding icons is a good idea. Maybe an icon for official announcements from
the Foundation as well?

2008/12/1 phoebe ayers <phoebe.wiki@...>

> New mailing list summaries:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LSS/foundation-l-archives/2008_November_16-30
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LSS/wikiEN-l-archives/2008_11_16-30
>
> (I won't do this every time one is posted, but just in case people
> missed the last note about the list summary service reboot...)
>
> Also, a question: would weekly summaries be more useful? I'm thinking
> of going back to that instead of biweekly.
>
> Any other suggestions? Effeietsanders suggested icons for particularly
> extensive discussions. I'm thinking this one for particularly
> controversial topics:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Nuvola_apps_core.png ;)
>
> best,
> -- phoebe
>
> --
> * I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers
> <at> gmail.com *
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
(Continue reading)

Robert Rohde | 1 Dec 2008 04:09
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Re: EN Wikipedia Editing Statistics

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Neil Harris
<usenet@...> wrote:
> Is the data replicated anywhere outside the Tampa data centre (such as
> in Amsterdam or Seoul)? If not, just one fire, flood or hurricane could
> destroy the entire en: Wikipedia.

There are database mirrors of every wiki, including en, as part of the
toolserver cluster in Amsterdam.

-Robert Rohde

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Dovi Jacobs | 1 Dec 2008 05:01
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[Wikitech-l] FlaggedRevs status/news?

Hi, we've entered December. Has my worry has come true, namely that interim discussion of localization
would send the request to never-never land? It would be great if he.wikisource could be implemented :-)

In general, for those who are interested in the topic, information on the implementation of Flagged
Reviews may be found at this page:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FlaggedRevs

In my opinion, priority should be given to custom implementation at as many wikis as possible. Only in this
way can its long-term effectiveness be tested. Great resources were rightfully invested in creating
this extension, which is (in my opinion) an essential part of the functionality of a wiki environment. It
is also, on a cultural level, a necessary tool for improving public attitudes about the reliability of
wiki projects.

(The latter reason is, especially, the reason we want it on he.wikisource. Only with a function like this
can we convince certain organizations to make their texts open-content, by guaranteeing that an
authoritative version will appear on the wiki website, not subject at all to vandalism or to well-meaning deprecation.)

So let's get it implemented as widely as possible and track its effectiveness!

Dovi
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Dovi, you're already in the queue which is being worked through; should
> be done within the next few days.
> 
> - -- brion

      
(Continue reading)

teun spaans | 1 Dec 2008 05:04
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Re: EN Wikipedia Editing Statistics

It is good to hear that en: is replicated. I assume this also applies to
commons?

Still, it might be a good idea to think about a redesign of the dump
process.

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:09 AM, Robert Rohde <rarohde@...> wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Neil Harris <usenet@...>
> wrote:
> > Is the data replicated anywhere outside the Tampa data centre (such as
> > in Amsterdam or Seoul)? If not, just one fire, flood or hurricane could
> > destroy the entire en: Wikipedia.
>
> There are database mirrors of every wiki, including en, as part of the
> toolserver cluster in Amsterdam.
>
> -Robert Rohde
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@...
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Milos Rancic | 1 Dec 2008 06:13
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Re: 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:25 AM, geni <geniice@...> wrote:
> Serbian isn't a launguage. It's a dialect of the Central South Slavic
> diasystem and one of the projects I had in mind when I brought up
> smaller languages becoming POV forks.

Saying that something is not a language is a strong claim. Talking
about one standard language as a dialect is a non-scientific claim.
Serbian language is one of the standard varieties based on
Eastern-Herzegovian dialect of Shtokavian diasystem. Also, it is not
based on Central South Slavic diasystem, because standard Serbian
language is not based on Torlakian, Chakavian nor Kaykavian.

> You also need to considered the argument beyond wikipedia. The ratio
> of scientific papers published in english compared to any eastern
> European language (except to an extent Russian) is very considerable.
> This is not something wikipedia can do anything about. Even if such
> languages do get more extensive beyond a certain point they will be
> relying on English references.

Yes. This is true.

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