Mohamed Magdy | 1 Sep 06:21
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Re: Betawiki being hosted by Wikimedia?

Eysteinn Gudni Gudnason wrote:
> This has been brought up before, and I'm taking it into my own hands  
> on pushing it forward. The idea is to start hosting Betawiki on a  
> Wikimedia site. On a new project or merge it into an excisting one  
> (Incubator?). I've put up a site for discussion. Please take a look  
> at it and consider it.
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Betawiki_being_hosted_by_Wikimedia
>
>
>   
I think it is a good idea for the sustainability of the  project.

I'm also with making  it on a separate wiki because people's permissions 
on betawiki are different from the incubator..and also may be let the 
betawiki run all the extensions to test its translations?
Kim Bruning | 1 Sep 03:16
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Re: could we please have a community-l?

On Sat, Aug 25, 2007 at 10:47:35AM -0400, Casey Brown wrote:
> The developers say that we don't seem to have enough consensus.

Ouw, well that's kinda bs.

But if that's the call, let's start pulling more community stuff onto
foundation-l until folks here cry uncle. O:-)

read you soon,
	Kim Bruning

(What WP:POINT violation? :-P )
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Marc Riddell | 1 Sep 03:18
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Re: could we please have a community-l?


> On Sat, Aug 25, 2007 at 10:47:35AM -0400, Casey Brown wrote:
>> The developers say that we don't seem to have enough consensus.
> 
on 8/31/07 9:16 PM, Kim Bruning at kim@... wrote:

> Ouw, well that's kinda bs.
> 
> But if that's the call, let's start pulling more community stuff onto
> foundation-l until folks here cry uncle. O:-)
> 
Sounds good to me!

Marc Riddell
Florence Devouard | 1 Sep 03:55
Gravatar

Our values

Hello,

In the past few months, the WMF has adopted officially a vision 
(tagline) and clarified its mission statement.

The difference between the two is that the vision is the dream, what we 
are trying to do, even if that seems impossible. This is the long long 
long future.
The mission is the more practical path we decide to follow to reach our 
vision.

Currently, you may find our vision 
here:http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Vision

and the mission there:
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Mission

--------

A next step for a non-profit is to define its values. Values are the 
driving force in a nonprofit.

Before you tell me "what's that boring stuff and why on earth would it 
be useful for", let me explain :-)

Values represent the core priorities in the organization’s culture, 
including what drives people's priorities and how they truly act in the 
organization, etc.

I'd like that we establish four to six core values from which the WMF 
(Continue reading)

Delirium | 1 Sep 06:54

Re: Our values

Florence Devouard wrote:
> I would like to ask you to have a look at the value page on meta:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Values
>
> And add more suggestions there, or different phrasings. Values can be 
> expressed by keywords, or by sentences. Either are fine, as long as they 
> express what is important to us.
> Or comment on some of the keywords already there.
>   

This strikes me as somewhat reversed from our typical practice---we have 
goals, like creating a neutral, wide-coverage, multi-lingual 
encyclopedia, or a repository of free media, etc., and then we choose 
means to those goals based on what we find works and doesn't work. We 
use wikis, for example, because they work better than Nupedia did, not 
because we love wikis; and we use consensus-based decision making 
because it seems to work better than the alternatives, not because we 
have some attachment to consensus-based political systems ([[en:WP:NOT]] 
has said as much for many years).

The same goes with the things on that list---we encourage diversity 
because diverse groups of contributors tend to reach less biased and 
more wide-reaching consensus; we encourage friendliness because it makes 
the whole process go smoother; and so on. But this seems to be setting 
those values up as the organization's values per se, which seems 
backwards. When it comes to Wikimedia projects, I don't think we should 
specifically value friendliness, or diversity, or openness, or trust, 
for their own sake. In particular, I can see situations where we 
*wouldn't* want to put undue value on openness or trust, if they didn't 
serve our mission (at the moment they mostly do).
(Continue reading)

Erik Moeller | 1 Sep 07:25
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Re: Our values

On 9/1/07, Delirium <delirium@...> wrote:

> This strikes me as somewhat reversed from our typical practice---we have
> goals, like creating a neutral, wide-coverage, multi-lingual
> encyclopedia, or a repository of free media, etc., and then we choose
> means to those goals based on what we find works and doesn't work. We
> use wikis, for example, because they work better than Nupedia did, not
> because we love wikis; and we use consensus-based decision making
> because it seems to work better than the alternatives, not because we
> have some attachment to consensus-based political systems ([[en:WP:NOT]]
> has said as much for many years).

To some extent I agree with you. However:

- Quality (which encompasses many dimensions) may at first seem
blatantly obvious, but it's quite clear that many similar knowledge
collecting websites do _not_ emphasize quality, sometimes deliberately
so to focus on collecting large amounts of factoids or uploads (think
UrbanDictionary. YouTube). I'm not sure how much one can believe in
quality as a "value", though.

- I do not believe that we should ever sacrifice friendliness "for the
greater good". At the most, we should downgrade it to politeness, but
we should never be impolite or unfriendly, and in fact build a
community which strongly emphasizes this throughout its projects.
(Mind you, I do not claim that I or anyone else can always live up to
that goal, but I consider it a failing when we do not do so.) Anyone
who has been on the Internet for a while knows that this idea is far
from self-evident.

(Continue reading)

Matthew Britton | 1 Sep 11:40

Re: Our values

Erik Moeller wrote:
> - I do not believe that we should ever sacrifice friendliness "for the 
> greater good".
You haven't edited the English Wikipedia recently, have you?

-Gurch
Florence Devouard | 1 Sep 12:19
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Re: Our values

Matthew Britton wrote:
> Erik Moeller wrote:
>> - I do not believe that we should ever sacrifice friendliness "for the 
>> greater good".
> You haven't edited the English Wikipedia recently, have you?
> 
> -Gurch

Well...

This is also what I mean by difference between "preferred values" and 
"actual values".

It seems to me that "wikilove" is something most of us would like to see 
as one of our value (a mix of respect for others, what they do, what 
they believe in, and a desire to listen to them rather than just 
straight telling them they are jerks if they believe in blablabla...). 
It is a desire of empathy for others. For some of us, it is because it 
is the type of environment they prefer. For others, very practically, 
because it is *good* for the project to have a great diversity of 
approaches and skills, and we can not have this diversity if there is 
not a minimum of tolerance and trust.

This said, we can not make wikilove a rule, a policy, but certainly a 
guideline in how we expect editors to behave one with each other.
On some websites, the people are not expected to behave nicely with each 
others. In some TV shows, you are even expected to be nasty and vicious 
with the other people on the stage. I would hope that the majority of us 
would prefer respect and tolerance at a minimum. Limits of tolerance are 
very quickly reached when a very racist person, or a pedophile, or a 
(Continue reading)

effe iets anders | 1 Sep 14:13
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Re: Our values

Although friendlyness is nice to new editors, there is also a certain
type of friendlyness to the readers. That is usability in the broadest
sense of the word. The content should be in such a shape that it is
easy to use. websites should be in such a layout and accessibility
that they are easy to find the information. Etc. And there is also
Friendlyness towards re-users of the content. That could include the
making available in a nice and friendly way of database dumps etc.
Maybe friendlyness is not the best word, but I certainly agree that it
is important, not only towards (new) editors, but also towards readers
and re-users.

Best regards,

Lodewijk

2007/9/1, Florence Devouard <Anthere9@...>:
> Matthew Britton wrote:
> > Erik Moeller wrote:
> >> - I do not believe that we should ever sacrifice friendliness "for the
> >> greater good".
> > You haven't edited the English Wikipedia recently, have you?
> >
> > -Gurch
>
> Well...
>
> This is also what I mean by difference between "preferred values" and
> "actual values".
>
> It seems to me that "wikilove" is something most of us would like to see
(Continue reading)

Marc Riddell | 1 Sep 14:42
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Re: Our values

on 9/1/07 8:13 AM, effe iets anders at effeietsanders@... wrote:

> Maybe friendlyness is not the best word, but I certainly agree that it
> is important, not only towards (new) editors, but also towards readers
> and re-users.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Lodewijk

Three words come immediately to my mind: helpfulness, consideration and
kindness.

Marc Riddell

--

-- 
* Practice random acts of kindness. *

Gmane