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Gordon Joly | 2 Jul 00:15
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Re: Editors' exclusion due to privacy

>
>
>I think the suggestion on this thread is to attempt to find a way for
>people to influence the company by having a vote at general meetings
>without providing any identity. This is what Alison is discussing.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Andrew
>

I see. And how would that be "democratic"?

No representation without presentation!

Gordo

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Gordon Joly | 2 Jul 00:21
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Re: Editors' exclusion due to privacy

>
>
>Thanks for two reasonably reassuring replies. If there are a sensible number
>of members then a userbox on Wikipedia user page "This person is a member of
>Wikimedia UK" doesn't ID a specific person. I'm thinking of people who will
>want to 1/ declare support and involvement openly on their user pages,
>whilst 2/ remaining not personally identified.  This becomes possible if
>there are a fair number of members, such that matching up becomes
>impractical to do for most people.
>
>As to your last point, yes, but not in a malicious or improper way.  Rather,
>in the same sense that many editors wish to have an "influence" and show
>support on articles and processes on Wikimedia Foundation websites "without
>providing any identity".  My question in this thread has been more, how can
>a person wishing to remain anonymous to ill-wishers on wiki*.org achieve
>that without exclusion from support to the company as a member.  "Anonymity
>through obscurity" is rarely ideal; the search for another method seems
>worthwhile.
>

I guess the next question might be: why does such a person want to 
join the UK Chapter? There could be many other organizations that 
might be better placed to represent the views and aspirations of said 
person.

Might be worth re-visiting the objects...

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK

See also:
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the contactbox | 2 Jul 04:08
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Re: Editors' exclusion due to privacy

-----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Joly [mailto:gordon.joly <at> pobox.com]
> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Editors' exclusion due to privacy
>
> I guess the next question might be: why does such a person want to
> join the UK Chapter? There could be many other organizations that
> might be better placed to represent the views and aspirations of said
> person.

Perhaps because the entire Wiki* concept is about putting time and care back
in, and supporting some quite special objectives.  I think the presence of
many, many good quality, dedicated editors who devote a significant time to
doing so on the Wikimedia Foundation's websites under conditions of
anonymity, are good evidence that there is usually not a doubtful wish, or a
suspect motive as implied. 

Put simply, the desire to become more involved in one area of Wikimedia,
would not  to my mind necessarily be a contradiction to the desire to
continue to edit with personal anonymity in another area, as many have done
in the past and continue to do.

So the above comment is essentially an old argument on privacy recast in a
new form, "If they don't have something to hide, why do they care about
anonymity". I don't think that helps. It's not a wish whose motive is
suspicious, or necessitates editors being directed to seek "other
organizations that might be better placed to represent [their] views and
aspirations".

Given how many UK-based editors continue to edit anonymously, the assumption
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the contactbox | 2 Jul 11:59
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Re: Editors' exclusion due to privacy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Joly [mailto:gordon.joly <at> pobox.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:46 AM
> Subject: RE: [Wikimediauk-l] Editors' exclusion due to privacy

[Snip]

> Two points
> 
> 1) You are representing the views of others, and I am not sure you
> have that right. Especially since there are anonymous, and are not
> acting as a single body.
> 
> 2) Wikimedia UK is about sending money to Foundation. One of the
> reasons I left (days before the legal incorporation) was that I was
> interested in research and education, but the Chapters are primarily
> (but not only) about getting the tax back on donations. I can form a
> charity called "Wiki Research, Education and Training Ltd" and not
> use the trade marks of the foundation. And I could do that in a few
> weeks.

It's hard to see either of those as good quality answers. 

"Representing" is an unhelpful word here. To note a situation, and comment
that it merits review is not the same as representing anonymous editors per
se. The situation exists, and it's extremely likely that a significant
number of those who would wish to be involved as members will be affected by
it. Drawing attention to a problem or situation is not the same as claiming
to be some form of unelected spokesperson. I've not claimed the latter; I've
only spoken as someone who wishes to be involved, and can conceive that this
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Gordon Joly | 2 Jul 12:30
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Re: Editors' exclusion due to privacy


To: "the contactbox"

I believe that you  have forwarded a private, offlist reply to the list.

So much for privacy, eh?

Gordo

At 10:59 +0100 2/7/07, the contactbox wrote:
>  > -----Original Message-----
>>  From: Gordon Joly [mailto:gordon.joly <at> pobox.com]
>>  Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:46 AM
>>  Subject: RE: [Wikimediauk-l] Editors' exclusion due to privacy
>
>[Snip]
>
>>  Two points
>>
>>  1) You are representing the views of others, and I am not sure you
>>  have that right. Especially since there are anonymous, and are not
>>  acting as a single body.
>>
>>  2) Wikimedia UK is about sending money to Foundation. One of the
>>  reasons I left (days before the legal incorporation) was that I was
>>  interested in research and education, but the Chapters are primarily
>>  (but not only) about getting the tax back on donations. I can form a
>>  charity called "Wiki Research, Education and Training Ltd" and not
>>  use the trade marks of the foundation. And I could do that in a few
>>  weeks.
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Gordon Joly | 2 Jul 12:32
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Re: Editors' exclusion due to privacy

At 10:59 +0100 2/7/07, the contactbox wrote:
>  > -----Original Message-----
>>  From: Gordon Joly [mailto:gordon.joly <at> pobox.com]
>>  Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:46 AM
>>  Subject: RE: [Wikimediauk-l] Editors' exclusion due to privacy
>
>[Snip]
>
>>  Two points
>>
>>  1) You are representing the views of others, and I am not sure you
>>  have that right. Especially since there are anonymous, and are not
>>  acting as a single body.
>>
>>  2) Wikimedia UK is about sending money to Foundation. One of the
>>  reasons I left (days before the legal incorporation) was that I was
>>  interested in research and education, but the Chapters are primarily
>>  (but not only) about getting the tax back on donations. I can form a
>>  charity called "Wiki Research, Education and Training Ltd" and not
>>  use the trade marks of the foundation. And I could do that in a few
>>  weeks.
>
>It's hard to see either of those as good quality answers.
>

Which is perhaps why I did not send them to this list: you did.

Gordo

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the contactbox | 2 Jul 13:54
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Re: Editors' exclusion due to privacy

Thought it was a mistake (as indeed my own previous email was, which was
accidentally replied to you only, rather than "reply all"ed).

Everything else in this thread was sent to the list. It wasn't marked
private, nor stated to be private, nor was there anything secretive about
it.

Apologies if you had intended for it not to be public.  Next time I shall be
aware that some of your views are not public.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Joly [mailto:gordon.joly <at> pobox.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:31 AM
> 
> I believe that you  have forwarded a private, offlist reply to the list.
> 
> So much for privacy, eh?
> 
> Gordo

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Angela | 3 Jul 21:40
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London Wiki Wednesday tomorrow

A reminder for people near London - Wiki Wednesday will be held at
BearingPoint in Paternoster Square tomorrow (July 4th).

http://socialtext.net/wikiwed/index.cgi?london_wikiwed_4_july_2007

Angela

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Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley | 3 Jul 22:11
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s/UK/GB [WAS General Meeting (long)]

dgerard: >>No, because it includes Northern Ireland :-)<<

Just in case you weren't being funny, FTR. GB is the ISO 3166-1 code
for the United Kingdom <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1> and
the other chapters are named per ISO 3166.

[Ye, I think UK would have been better too, but it is silly to break
the standard for that reason.  Apparently the ISO committee guys, who
are ironically mostly from a country with the code US (not AM), made
the strange decision that it was inappropriate for a county code to be
an abbreviation for the generic words `United' and `Kingdom', even
though some codes don't even bear any relation to their country's
names.]

Joe.

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Alison Wheeler | 3 Jul 23:42
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membership applications

I am very pleased to announce that the website has just been updated with
the downloadable PDFs for joining Wikimedia UK.

To answer some questions that have (or will be!) raised:

1. You can now apply to be a Supporting Member of the Wikimedia UK
Chapter. This can be under your 'real name' or a pseudonym of your choice
such as the name you use on a Wikimedia project. Anyone of any age may be
a supporting member. We only require your email address, but a real one
will help us in event planning.

2. Supporting members cannot legally command the Chapter to do anything,
but they *will* be listened to!

3. Membership of the Company ("Guarantor membership"), which entitles you
to a formal vote at General Meetings or to stand as a candidate for
Director, is also available. This requires a real name and postal address
and you must be over 18.

4. You may submit one or both applications, but if both they must be in a
single envelope. Upon receipt the pages will be separated and we will not
be able to ascertain whether information on one page relates to the other
and will not record such information jointly in any other manner, ie. you
can use your handle on the Supporting membership but your real name on the
guarantor form cannot be tied back to it.

5. Whilst clearly we are targeted to people who edit on the various
Wikimedia projects, that is not a pre-requisite for membership of
Wikimedia UK; everyone who supports our aims and intentions is most
welcome to assist and join.
(Continue reading)

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Gmane