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Tab Atkins Jr. | 1 Mar 2009 02:31
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Re: Dates and coordinates in HTML5

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Andy Mabbett
<andy@...> wrote:
> Do we
> really have to illustrate use cases in action, before we can develop the
> technology which allows them to be demonstrated exists?

Though I admit it seems ass-backwards until you "get it", the answer
is yes, you do have to provide such use-cases.  More precisely, you
have to show that such an addition/change to the language would be of
significant help to authors, where "significant" is somewhat vague and
depends on the difficulty of the change.

It just so happens that one of the easiest ways to show that something
would help authors is showing that authors are currently hacking
around the problem, and that their efforts could be made significantly
easier with language support.  That establishes that there *is* a
problem in need of solving, so that we don't spend time on
insignificant problems when there are more important things to do.  It
also shows what authors think the solution is shaped like, so we don't
end up implementing something that doesn't actually help authors in
their real use-cases.

http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/FAQ#Is_there_a_process_for_adding_new_features_to_the_spec.3F

~TJ
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Rikkert Koppes | 2 Mar 2009 10:19

dl definition issue

At the dl element definition [1]

a) "The order of the list of groups, and of the names and values within 
each group, may be significant."
b) The |dl 
<http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl-element>| 
element is inappropriate for marking up dialogue, since dialogue is 
ordered (each speaker/line pair comes after the next).

It occurs to me that the argument, put forward in b), does not hold, 
since a). Hence, the argument needs to be rephrased or otherwise 
adjusted. For example:

"The |dl 
<http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl-element>| 
element is inappropriate for marking up dialogue, since dialog is a more 
appropriate semantic element. For an example of how to mark up dialogue, 
see the |dialog 
<http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dialog-element>| 
element."

[1] http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl-element

Regards,
Rikkert Koppes
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Kristof Zelechovski | 2 Mar 2009 10:52
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Re: proposed canvas 2d API additions

Philip's demonstration of how to handle detection of pointing at the curve
is miserably wrong.  His curve is not typographically correct (bounding
box!).  The detection should be in based on of precomputed regions rather
than flattening.  This all can be done in script library, of course, but the
library would have to rely on mathematical techniques that the graphic
designer need not understand.  And the region information could be cached
on-demand when it is first needed.  I think it would be better to build the
thing into the browser.
See my solution at <http://www.2a.pl/~ne01026/bzr.htm> (VML + VBScript
required).
Chris
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Ian Hickson | 2 Mar 2009 11:08
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Re: proposed canvas 2d API additions

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Kristof Zelechovski wrote:
>
> [...]

I would like to remind everyone that communication on this list is 
expected to be cordial, pleasant, and cooperative.

After multiple warnings, I've taken the rare step of banning Kristof's 
e-mail address from the mailing list for a week. It will be restored on 
Monday, March 9th.

--

-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
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Michael Nordman | 2 Mar 2009 21:49
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Re: <eventsource>/RemoteEventSource wierdness

> One key feature that IMHO is needed in this area is sharing of events between pages/windows

A cross-page event broadcast facility is co-mingled with the
DOMStorage corner of the spec (see 5.11.1.5 The storage event).

It may be nice to carve that out as a separate facility that can be
utilized in the absence of storage.
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Anne van Kesteren | 3 Mar 2009 01:48
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Re: <eventsource>/RemoteEventSource wierdness

On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:49:12 +0900, Michael Nordman
<michaeln@...>  
wrote:
> A cross-page event broadcast facility is co-mingled with the
> DOMStorage corner of the spec (see 5.11.1.5 The storage event).
>
> It may be nice to carve that out as a separate facility that can be
> utilized in the absence of storage.

Take a look at postMessage() ;-) (It ships in all browsers.)

--

-- 
Anne van Kesteren
http://annevankesteren.nl/
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Michael Nordman | 3 Mar 2009 02:06
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Re: <eventsource>/RemoteEventSource wierdness

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Anne van Kesteren <annevk@...> wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:49:12 +0900, Michael Nordman <michaeln@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> A cross-page event broadcast facility is co-mingled with the
>> DOMStorage corner of the spec (see 5.11.1.5 The storage event).
>>
>> It may be nice to carve that out as a separate facility that can be
>> utilized in the absence of storage.
>
> Take a look at postMessage() ;-) (It ships in all browsers.)

I was under the impression that postMessage() was directed at a
particular window (or context). Does postMessage have a broadcast
capability?

Storage events have a broadcast'ish nature to them. Multiple windows
(or contexts) will receive storage events as changes are made to the
'storage' area. The sender does not need to know anything about the
receivers or of their existence.

>
>
> --
> Anne van Kesteren
> http://annevankesteren.nl/
>
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Anne van Kesteren | 3 Mar 2009 02:16
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Re: <eventsource>/RemoteEventSource wierdness

On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:06:30 +0900, Michael Nordman
<michaeln@...>  
wrote:
> I was under the impression that postMessage() was directed at a
> particular window (or context). Does postMessage have a broadcast
> capability?
>
> Storage events have a broadcast'ish nature to them. Multiple windows
> (or contexts) will receive storage events as changes are made to the
> 'storage' area. The sender does not need to know anything about the
> receivers or of their existence.

Sorry, I misunderstood what you meant.

--

-- 
Anne van Kesteren
http://annevankesteren.nl/
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Chris Pearce | 3 Mar 2009 22:17
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Media element delaying load event

The media element spec says:
> If a media element 
> <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/video.html#media-element> 
> whose |networkState 
>
<http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/video.html#dom-media-networkstate>| 
> has the value |NETWORK_EMPTY 
>
<http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/video.html#dom-media-network_empty>| 
> is inserted into a document 
>
<http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/infrastructure.html#insert-an-element-into-a-document>, 
> the user agent must asynchronously invoke the media element 
> <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/video.html#media-element>'s 
> resource selection algorithm 
> <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/video.html#concept-media-load-algorithm>.
The resource selection algorithm then goes on to set the 
delaying-the-load-event flag to true. Depending on how the asynchronous 
invocation is implemented, the document could actually complete loading 
during the time after the insertion of a media element, but before the 
resource-selection algorithm sets the delaying-the-load-event flag is 
set to true. This means the load event could fire during that time, even 
though we intended to delay the load event.

Maybe we should set the delaying-the-load-event flag to true before we 
asynchronously call the resource-selection algorithm, and then then 
resource-selection algorithm can set the delaying-the-load-event flag to 
false if that decides it needs to wait for a src or source element child?

Thanks,
(Continue reading)

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Rikkert Koppes | 4 Mar 2009 09:55

Example / pattern document for authors

Dear all,

Would it be a nice idea to create a (non normative) example document for 
authors, containing at least the examples from the spec, amended with 
more elaborate examples of complete structures and real life samples? If 
so, would the whatwg wiki be a good start to host this, with the intend 
to create a document accompanying the specification? If the answer is 
yes, I would be happy to create a start.

Regards,
Rikkert Koppes
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Gmane