Re: Intern Web Developer needed - Python, Django, MongoDB, Mobile
I agree with much of what has been said about interns as I consider the only experience required for an intern is an introductory programming course (preferably python).
However, I think the article is from someone who made mistakes in their selection process of which startups to work for, probably due to not having some of the information that the article shares. I know there are a lot of bad startups out their who create this impression, but there are a lot of good startups as well. For some people, it is really how they are built. I love the energy in a startup's early stages, the excitement of hitting new milestones every month (or week), and building something new without a history to deal with. There are risks and you should go into a startup knowing those risks. If your only goal is to make sure you are paid at a certain level, then corporate America is probably the place for you. If you care more about the challenge an creating something new and just need a certain salary to fund your lifestyle, then maybe you would like a startup culture. I'm in my second startup now. The first was venture funded and I came in at a low salary as one of their first software developers. I stayed for 15 years and was well taken care of by the time it exited by being purchased by a public company. I stayed with the public company for a few years and hated it. Maybe it was just a bad division of a large company to work for like some startups, but I'll take a pay cut any day over that again. I do know people who work at large companies and love it as well so it really depends on the person and what drives them. The key is to make sure you know as much as possible about the situation you are getting into and then get out if it isn't working.
Definitely work with your university to figure out expected salary ranges.
C
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Sean Cavanaugh
<sean <at> cavanaugh.pro> wrote:
+1
any job saying the word 'intern' and 'experience' in the same breath is fishy. We have 6 interns in my building and we just required them to be in school (5 of them go to NC State). The idea is you train smart 'kids' that are in a technical degree (compsci, compeng, etc) and you only have to pay them minimally in return for education. I agree 100%
Here is a great article I read the other day on startups too, for those who are in University looking at startups->
(this is obviously biased and there good startups out there, just wanted another viewpoint sent out)
Also just FYI, the minimum per year salary for my graduating class with a BS in computer engineering was 54K (in 2009) with ~35 people and 1 got as high as 65K, and the market is not that bad for developers/engineers that you should be going below that for an 'intern' job (i have no idea what that particular job was paying). Work with your University to figure out average salaries out of Universities before you accept the first job offer that comes your way.
-S
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Chris Rossi
<chris-n9dCBDJAKcDiun+Ja4067AC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Robby Dermody <robby-sw7t4CfkVUNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
We’re a local company looking for a web developer intern to work on our flagship product, AppTend. AppTend allows companies to better support their smartphone and tablet-based users, and enables them to get customer support without having to dial into a clumsy phone tree interface (“press 1 for sales, press 2 for service”). Learn more about several cutting edge areas of technology, including Django, mobile web/mobile app development, HTML 5 and MongoDB. This is a great opportunity to learn some great technology with a real-world product that’s in use today by companies such as Samsung.
Respectfully, I'd like to encourage any young readers considering this opportunity to consider the following:
An internship is an educational opportunity. They are often arranged through colleges or universities and interns often receive class credit for participating. Barring formal ties to an institution of higher learning, an internship aimed at adult post-graduates should at least provide an opportunity to learn skills one doesn't already have. An internship tends also to be time limited--for a summer, for a few months. Here's what Wikipedia says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship
Although the original poster stays within the letter of the law (you'd be making more than minimum wage), this particular opportunity, in my opinion, doesn't meet the standard of an internship. Applicants are required to already be qualified for the position with both education and experience and are expected to work full time for a more or less open ended period of time. That is the definition of a job. Not an internship. The required qualifications make it difficult to regard this as an educational opportunity, as you'd need to already know how to do the job. The word internship seems to be used in this case to justify paying a wage that is below fair market value even for an entry level position. Assuming you have the qualifications enumerated by the original poster, you're probably ready for a real entry level job, not an internship, and should expect commensurate compensation.
Just my 2 cents,
Chris
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<div>
<p>I agree with much of what has been said about interns as I consider the only experience required for an intern is an introductory programming course (preferably python).</p>
<div><br></div>
<div>However, I think the article is from someone who made mistakes in their selection process of which startups to work for, probably due to not having some of the information that the article shares. I know there are a lot of bad startups out their who create this impression, but there are a lot of good startups as well. For some people, it is really how they are built. I love the energy in a startup's early stages, the excitement of hitting new milestones every month (or week), and building something new without a history to deal with. There are risks and you should go into a startup knowing those risks. If your only goal is to make sure you are paid at a certain level, then corporate America is probably the place for you. If you care more about the challenge an creating something new and just need a certain salary to fund your lifestyle, then maybe you would like a startup culture. I'm in my second startup now. The first was venture funded and I came in at a low salary as one of their first software developers. I stayed for 15 years and was well taken care of by the time it exited by being purchased by a public company. I stayed with the public company for a few years and hated it. Maybe it was just a bad division of a large company to work for like some startups, but I'll take a pay cut any day over that again. I do know people who work at large companies and love it as well so it really depends on the person and what drives them. The key is to make sure you know as much as possible about the situation you are getting into and then get out if it isn't working.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Definitely work with your university to figure out expected salary ranges. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>C<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Sean Cavanaugh <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sean@..." target="_blank">sean <at> cavanaugh.pro</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">+1<div><br></div>
<div>any job saying the word 'intern' and 'experience' in the same breath is fishy. We have 6 interns in my building and we just required them to be in school (5 of them go to NC State). The idea is you train smart 'kids' that are in a technical degree (compsci, compeng, etc) and you only have to pay them minimally in return for education. I agree 100%</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Here is a great article I read the other day on startups too, for those who are in University looking at startups-></div>
<div><a href="http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/dont-waste-your-time-in-crappy-startup-jobs/" target="_blank">http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/dont-waste-your-time-in-crappy-startup-jobs/</a></div>
<div>(this is obviously biased and there good startups out there, just wanted another viewpoint sent out)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Also just FYI, the minimum per year salary for my graduating class with a BS in computer engineering was 54K (in 2009) with ~35 people and 1 got as high as 65K, and the market is not that bad for developers/engineers that you should be going below that for an 'intern' job (i have no idea what that particular job was paying). Work with your University to figure out average salaries out of Universities before you accept the first job offer that comes your way. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>-S<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Chris Rossi <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chris <at> archimedeanco.com" target="_blank">chris@...</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<span>On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Robby Dermody </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:robby@..." target="_blank">robby@...</a>></span><span> wrote:</span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<span>We’re a local company looking for a web developer intern to work on our flagship product, <a href="http://www.apptend.com/" target="_blank">AppTend</a>. AppTend allows companies to better support their smartphone and tablet-based users, and enables them to get customer support without having to dial into a clumsy phone tree interface (“press 1 for sales, press 2 for service”). Learn more about several cutting edge areas of technology, including </span><span>Django, mobile web/mobile app development, HTML 5 and MongoDB</span><span>. This is a great opportunity to learn some great technology with a real-world product that’s in use today by companies such as Samsung. </span><br><br>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>
Respectfully, I'd like to encourage any young readers considering this opportunity to consider the following:</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>An internship is an educational opportunity. They are often arranged through colleges or universities and interns often receive class credit for participating. Barring formal ties to an institution of higher learning, an internship aimed at adult post-graduates should at least provide an opportunity to learn skills one doesn't already have. An internship tends also to be time limited--for a summer, for a few months. Here's what Wikipedia says: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship</a>
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
Although the original poster stays within the letter of the law (you'd be making more than minimum wage), this particular opportunity, in my opinion, doesn't meet the standard of an internship. Applicants are required to already be qualified for the position with both education and experience and are expected to work full time for a more or less open ended period of time. That is the definition of a job. Not an internship. The required qualifications make it difficult to regard this as an educational opportunity, as you'd need to already know how to do the job. The word internship seems to be used in this case to justify paying a wage that is below fair market value even for an entry level position. Assuming you have the qualifications enumerated by the original poster, you're probably ready for a real entry level job, not an internship, and should expect commensurate compensation.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
Just my 2 cents,</div>
<div>Chris</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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