Jim Allman | 1 Jul 19:36 2012

Sage notebook and new IPython

In this week's after-meeting, we talked about interactive stats and math tools in Python.

I mentioned the SAGE project, which is an open-source alterative to Magma / Maple / Mathematica / Matlab:
	http://www.sagemath.org/
Sage is a funky, through-the-web console that uses Python to drive lots of math software. Note that there's
a public server so you can easily take it for a spin:
	http://www.sagenb.org/

I didn't realize this, but IPython also has a "notebook" UI with inline graphing. In fact, they just
released a new version (0.13) with big improvements in this area:
	http://ipython.org/ipython-doc/rel-0.13/whatsnew/version0.13.html

  =jimA=

Jim Allman
Interrobang Digital Media
http://www.ibang.com/
(919) 649-5760

Calvin Spealman | 9 Jul 17:19 2012
Picon

July Project Night!

The next Project Night is THIS WEEK, at 6PM on Wednesday July 11th.

This is a great opportunity to get in on some Julython
(http://julython.org/) points, so show up and crank out some commits!

Have a project you want to show off, share, seek help with, or just
get some work done surrounded my like minded python lovers? Join us
for our first monthly hack night and do just that! Don't have
something to work on? Show up and enjoy the energy, sprint on an open
source project, find something interesting to contribute to or be
inspired by!

The setting is informal and there is no schedule, so don't worry if
you show up past the start time.

Can we meet or break our previous record for project night attendees?
Show up and help us hit that number and enjoy the FREE FOOD.
Calvin Spealman | 9 Jul 21:00 2012
Picon

Re: July Project Night!

You'll probably want to know WHERE and I was neglectful enough to not
even include
that in the original message.

Project Night is held at the Caktus Group offices:

209 Lloyd St #110
Carrboor, NC 23110

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Calvin Spealman
<ironfroggy@...> wrote:
> The next Project Night is THIS WEEK, at 6PM on Wednesday July 11th.
>
> This is a great opportunity to get in on some Julython
> (http://julython.org/) points, so show up and crank out some commits!
>
> Have a project you want to show off, share, seek help with, or just
> get some work done surrounded my like minded python lovers? Join us
> for our first monthly hack night and do just that! Don't have
> something to work on? Show up and enjoy the energy, sprint on an open
> source project, find something interesting to contribute to or be
> inspired by!
>
> The setting is informal and there is no schedule, so don't worry if
> you show up past the start time.
>
> Can we meet or break our previous record for project night attendees?
> Show up and help us hit that number and enjoy the FREE FOOD.

--

-- 
(Continue reading)

Chris Calloway | 9 Jul 21:04 2012
Picon

Fwd: TriLUG July 12 meeting - OpenShift - Please announce to your members

The TriLUG Steering Committee thinks this is of interest to you. I don't 
know what it has to do with Python. But I trust they do.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: TriLUG July 12 meeting - OpenShift - Please announce to your 
members
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:46:15 -0400
From: Jeremy Davis <jeremydavis@...>
To: <info@...>
CC: TriLUG Steering Committee <steering@...>

TriZPUG,

This topic may be relevant to members of your group. Please pass it along.

Topic: OpenShift
Presenter: Wesley Hearn
When: Thursday, July 12, 7pm
Where: Red Hat HQ, NCSU Centennial Campus, 1801 Varsity Dr, Raleigh, NC
Map: Google Maps

Wesley Hearn will be presenting OpenShift, a cloud computing platform
as a service product from Red Hat.

Synopsis:
Wesley Hearn will be going over what Cloud computing is and where
OpenShift is inside the Cloud stack. After everyone has a grasp on
Cloud computing, he will go over how OpenShift differs from OpenShift
Origin. Then it is on to the semi-fun stuff, the different components
of OpenShift Origin and how they work together. Once Wesley has gone
(Continue reading)

Calvin Spealman | 10 Jul 02:04 2012
Picon

Re: Fwd: TriLUG July 12 meeting - OpenShift - Please announce to your members

This seems interesting. There is some interest at Caktus in attending.
Can anyone confirm if they plan attend? It would be nice to know if
there will be some familiar faces and a good Python presence there.
The more of us attend the better questions someone is likely to come
up with.

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Chris Calloway <cbc@...> wrote:
> The TriLUG Steering Committee thinks this is of interest to you. I don't
> know what it has to do with Python. But I trust they do.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: TriLUG July 12 meeting - OpenShift - Please announce to your
> members
> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:46:15 -0400
> From: Jeremy Davis <jeremydavis@...>
> To: <info@...>
> CC: TriLUG Steering Committee <steering@...>
>
> TriZPUG,
>
> This topic may be relevant to members of your group. Please pass it along.
>
> Topic: OpenShift
> Presenter: Wesley Hearn
> When: Thursday, July 12, 7pm
> Where: Red Hat HQ, NCSU Centennial Campus, 1801 Varsity Dr, Raleigh, NC
> Map: Google Maps
>
> Wesley Hearn will be presenting OpenShift, a cloud computing platform
> as a service product from Red Hat.
(Continue reading)

Joseph S. Tate | 10 Jul 05:40 2012
Picon

Re: Fwd: TriLUG July 12 meeting - OpenShift - Please announce to your members

I'm planning on being there.

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Calvin Spealman <ironfroggy@...> wrote:
> This seems interesting. There is some interest at Caktus in attending.
> Can anyone confirm if they plan attend? It would be nice to know if
> there will be some familiar faces and a good Python presence there.
> The more of us attend the better questions someone is likely to come
> up with.
>
> On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Chris Calloway <cbc@...> wrote:
>> The TriLUG Steering Committee thinks this is of interest to you. I don't
>> know what it has to do with Python. But I trust they do.
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: TriLUG July 12 meeting - OpenShift - Please announce to your
>> members
>> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:46:15 -0400
>> From: Jeremy Davis <jeremydavis@...>
>> To: <info@...>
>> CC: TriLUG Steering Committee <steering@...>
>>
>> TriZPUG,
>>
>> This topic may be relevant to members of your group. Please pass it along.
>>
>> Topic: OpenShift
>> Presenter: Wesley Hearn
>> When: Thursday, July 12, 7pm
>> Where: Red Hat HQ, NCSU Centennial Campus, 1801 Varsity Dr, Raleigh, NC
>> Map: Google Maps
(Continue reading)

Randy Barlow | 10 Jul 18:32 2012

Software Engineering Jobs

Hello TriZPUG! My employer (MetaMetrics, Inc.) is hiring for three
software engineering positions[0].

MetaMetrics is an education R&D company. We have developed some great
products in the educational space, and we are poised continue to be very
successful in our market. As a company, we do a lot of work related to
text complexity analysis, and also student ability estimation. It's a
great company, with a significant mission.

Two of the positions are in my group (Software Engineer and Web
Developer), so I will describe those positions more, but we also have a
Software Engineering position in a different engineering group (they use
Java) that you can read about on our site.

We are a close knit team of 11 engineers. We have a lot fun at work, and
often hang out outside of the office. We have a well developed Scrum
process, and we do a lot of fun and challenging projects. We do most of
our work in Python, and we typically use Django for our web projects.

Software Engineer:

While Python is officially required, we will consider applicants who
have strong experience in other object oriented languages. If you are a
highly experienced software engineer in a different language and you
happen to like Python, I'd encourage you to apply.

Web Developer:

We are also looking for an experienced web developer. We use Django and
Python for our web products. Experience with Django and Python is nice
(Continue reading)

Chris Rossi | 10 Jul 22:45 2012

Re: Intern Web Developer needed - Python, Django, MongoDB, Mobile

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Robby Dermody <robby-sw7t4CfkVUNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
We’re a local company looking for a web developer intern to work on our flagship product, AppTend. AppTend allows companies to better support their smartphone and tablet-based users, and enables them to get customer support without having to dial into a clumsy phone tree interface (“press 1 for sales, press 2 for service”). Learn more about several cutting edge areas of technology, including Django, mobile web/mobile app development, HTML 5 and MongoDB. This is a great opportunity to learn some great technology with a real-world product that’s in use today by companies such as Samsung. 


Respectfully, I'd like to encourage any young readers considering this opportunity to consider the following:

An internship is an educational opportunity.  They are often arranged through colleges or universities and interns often receive class credit for participating.  Barring formal ties to an institution of higher learning, an internship aimed at adult post-graduates should at least provide an opportunity to learn skills one doesn't already have.  An internship tends also to be time limited--for a summer, for a few months.  Here's what Wikipedia says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship

Although the original poster stays within the letter of the law (you'd be making more than minimum wage), this particular opportunity, in my opinion, doesn't meet the standard of an internship.  Applicants are required to already be qualified for the position with both education and experience and are expected to work full time for a more or less open ended period of time.  That is the definition of a job.  Not an internship.  The required qualifications make it difficult to regard this as an educational opportunity, as you'd need to already know how to do the job.  The word internship seems to be used in this case to justify paying a wage that is below fair market value even for an entry level position.  Assuming you have the qualifications enumerated by the original poster, you're probably ready for a real entry level job, not an internship, and should expect commensurate compensation.

Just my 2 cents,
Chris

<div>
<span>On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Robby Dermody&nbsp;</span><span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:robby@..." target="_blank">robby@...</a>&gt;</span><span>&nbsp;wrote:</span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<span>We&rsquo;re a local company looking for a web developer intern to work on our flagship product,&nbsp;<a href="http://www.apptend.com/" target="_blank">AppTend</a>. AppTend allows companies to better support their smartphone and tablet-based users, and enables them to get customer support without having to dial into a clumsy phone tree interface (&ldquo;press 1 for sales, press 2 for service&rdquo;). Learn more about several cutting edge areas of technology, including&nbsp;</span><span>Django, mobile web/mobile app development, HTML 5 and MongoDB</span><span>. This is a great opportunity to learn some great technology with a real-world product that&rsquo;s in use today by companies such as Samsung.&nbsp;</span><br><br>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>
Respectfully, I'd like to encourage any young readers considering this opportunity to consider the following:</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>An internship is an educational opportunity. &nbsp;They are often arranged through colleges or universities and interns often receive class credit for participating. &nbsp;Barring formal ties to an institution of higher learning, an internship aimed at adult post-graduates should at least provide an opportunity to learn skills one doesn't already have. &nbsp;An internship tends also to be time limited--for a summer, for a few months. &nbsp;Here's what Wikipedia says:&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship</a>
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
Although the original poster stays within the letter of the law (you'd be making more than minimum wage), this particular opportunity, in my opinion, doesn't meet the standard of an internship. &nbsp;Applicants are required to already be qualified for the position with both education and experience and are expected to work full time for a more or less open ended period of time. &nbsp;That is the definition of a job. &nbsp;Not an internship. &nbsp;The required qualifications make it difficult to regard this as an educational opportunity, as you'd need to already know how to do the job. &nbsp;The word internship seems to be used in this case to justify paying a wage that is below fair market value even for an entry level position. &nbsp;Assuming you have the qualifications enumerated by the original poster, you're probably ready for a real entry level job, not an internship, and should expect commensurate compensation.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
Just my 2 cents,</div>
<div>Chris</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
Sean Cavanaugh | 10 Jul 22:57 2012

Re: Intern Web Developer needed - Python, Django, MongoDB, Mobile

+1


any job saying the word 'intern' and 'experience' in the same breath is fishy.  We have 6 interns in my building and we just required them to be in school (5 of them go to NC State).  The idea is you train smart 'kids' that are in a technical degree (compsci, compeng, etc) and you only have to pay them minimally in return for education.  I agree 100%

Here is a great article I read the other day on startups too, for those who are in University looking at startups->
(this is obviously biased and there good startups out there, just wanted another viewpoint sent out)

Also just FYI, the minimum per year salary for my graduating class with a BS in computer engineering was 54K (in 2009) with ~35 people and 1 got as high as 65K, and the market is not that bad for developers/engineers that you should be going below that for an 'intern' job (i have no idea what that particular job was paying).  Work with your University to figure out average salaries out of Universities before you accept the first job offer that comes your way.  

-S

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Chris Rossi <chris-n9dCBDJAKcDiun+Ja4067AC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Robby Dermody <robby-sw7t4CfkVUNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
We’re a local company looking for a web developer intern to work on our flagship product, AppTend. AppTend allows companies to better support their smartphone and tablet-based users, and enables them to get customer support without having to dial into a clumsy phone tree interface (“press 1 for sales, press 2 for service”). Learn more about several cutting edge areas of technology, including Django, mobile web/mobile app development, HTML 5 and MongoDB. This is a great opportunity to learn some great technology with a real-world product that’s in use today by companies such as Samsung. 


Respectfully, I'd like to encourage any young readers considering this opportunity to consider the following:

An internship is an educational opportunity.  They are often arranged through colleges or universities and interns often receive class credit for participating.  Barring formal ties to an institution of higher learning, an internship aimed at adult post-graduates should at least provide an opportunity to learn skills one doesn't already have.  An internship tends also to be time limited--for a summer, for a few months.  Here's what Wikipedia says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship

Although the original poster stays within the letter of the law (you'd be making more than minimum wage), this particular opportunity, in my opinion, doesn't meet the standard of an internship.  Applicants are required to already be qualified for the position with both education and experience and are expected to work full time for a more or less open ended period of time.  That is the definition of a job.  Not an internship.  The required qualifications make it difficult to regard this as an educational opportunity, as you'd need to already know how to do the job.  The word internship seems to be used in this case to justify paying a wage that is below fair market value even for an entry level position.  Assuming you have the qualifications enumerated by the original poster, you're probably ready for a real entry level job, not an internship, and should expect commensurate compensation.

Just my 2 cents,
Chris


_______________________________________________
TriZPUG mailing list
TriZPUG-+ZN9ApsXKcEdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/trizpug
http://trizpug.org is the Triangle Zope and Python Users Group

<div>
<p>+1</p>
<div><br></div>
<div>any job saying the word 'intern' and 'experience' in the same breath is fishy. &nbsp;We have 6 interns in my building and we just required them to be in school (5 of them go to NC State). &nbsp;The idea is you train smart 'kids' that are in a technical degree (compsci, compeng, etc) and you only have to pay them minimally in return for education. &nbsp;I agree 100%</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Here is a great article I read the other day on startups too, for those who are in University looking at startups-&gt;</div>
<div><a href="http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/dont-waste-your-time-in-crappy-startup-jobs/">http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/dont-waste-your-time-in-crappy-startup-jobs/</a></div>
<div>(this is obviously biased and there good startups out there, just wanted another viewpoint sent out)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Also just FYI, the minimum per year salary for my graduating class with a BS in computer engineering was 54K (in 2009) with ~35 people and 1 got as high as 65K, and the market is not that bad for developers/engineers that you should be going below that for an 'intern' job (i have no idea what that particular job was paying). &nbsp;Work with your University to figure out average salaries out of Universities before you accept the first job offer that comes your way. &nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>-S<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Chris Rossi <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:chris <at> archimedeanco.com" target="_blank">chris@...</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<span>On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Robby Dermody&nbsp;</span><span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:robby@..." target="_blank">robby@...</a>&gt;</span><span>&nbsp;wrote:</span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">

<span>We&rsquo;re a local company looking for a web developer intern to work on our flagship product,&nbsp;<a href="http://www.apptend.com/" target="_blank">AppTend</a>. AppTend allows companies to better support their smartphone and tablet-based users, and enables them to get customer support without having to dial into a clumsy phone tree interface (&ldquo;press 1 for sales, press 2 for service&rdquo;). Learn more about several cutting edge areas of technology, including&nbsp;</span><span>Django, mobile web/mobile app development, HTML 5 and MongoDB</span><span>. This is a great opportunity to learn some great technology with a real-world product that&rsquo;s in use today by companies such as Samsung.&nbsp;</span><br><br>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>
Respectfully, I'd like to encourage any young readers considering this opportunity to consider the following:</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>An internship is an educational opportunity. &nbsp;They are often arranged through colleges or universities and interns often receive class credit for participating. &nbsp;Barring formal ties to an institution of higher learning, an internship aimed at adult post-graduates should at least provide an opportunity to learn skills one doesn't already have. &nbsp;An internship tends also to be time limited--for a summer, for a few months. &nbsp;Here's what Wikipedia says:&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship</a>
</div>

<div><br></div>
<div>
Although the original poster stays within the letter of the law (you'd be making more than minimum wage), this particular opportunity, in my opinion, doesn't meet the standard of an internship. &nbsp;Applicants are required to already be qualified for the position with both education and experience and are expected to work full time for a more or less open ended period of time. &nbsp;That is the definition of a job. &nbsp;Not an internship. &nbsp;The required qualifications make it difficult to regard this as an educational opportunity, as you'd need to already know how to do the job. &nbsp;The word internship seems to be used in this case to justify paying a wage that is below fair market value even for an entry level position. &nbsp;Assuming you have the qualifications enumerated by the original poster, you're probably ready for a real entry level job, not an internship, and should expect commensurate compensation.</div>

<div><br></div>
<div>
Just my 2 cents,</div>
<div>Chris</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
TriZPUG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:TriZPUG@...">TriZPUG@...</a><br><a href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/trizpug" target="_blank">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/trizpug</a><br><a href="http://trizpug.org" target="_blank">http://trizpug.org</a> is the Triangle Zope and Python Users Group<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
Chris H | 10 Jul 23:27 2012

Re: Intern Web Developer needed - Python, Django, MongoDB, Mobile

I agree with much of what has been said about interns as I consider the only experience required for an intern is an introductory programming course (preferably python).


However, I think the article is from someone who made mistakes in their selection process of which startups to work for, probably due to not having some of the information that the article shares.  I know there are a lot of bad startups out their who create this impression, but there are a lot of good startups as well.  For some people, it is really how they are built.  I love the energy in a startup's early stages, the excitement of hitting new milestones every month (or week), and building something new without a history to deal with.  There are risks and you should go into a startup knowing those risks.  If your only goal is to make sure you are paid at a certain level, then corporate America is probably the place for you.  If you care more about the challenge an creating something new and just need a certain salary to fund your lifestyle, then maybe you would like a startup culture.  I'm in my second startup now.  The first was venture funded and I came in at a low salary as one of their first software developers.  I stayed for 15 years and was well taken care of by the time it exited by being purchased by a public company.  I stayed with the public company for a few years and hated it.  Maybe it was just a bad division of a large company to work for like some startups, but I'll take a pay cut any day over that again.  I do know people who work at large companies and love it as well so it really depends on the person and what drives them.  The key is to make sure you know as much as possible about the situation you are getting into and then get out if it isn't working.

Definitely work with your university to figure out expected salary ranges.  

C

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Sean Cavanaugh <sean <at> cavanaugh.pro> wrote:
+1

any job saying the word 'intern' and 'experience' in the same breath is fishy.  We have 6 interns in my building and we just required them to be in school (5 of them go to NC State).  The idea is you train smart 'kids' that are in a technical degree (compsci, compeng, etc) and you only have to pay them minimally in return for education.  I agree 100%

Here is a great article I read the other day on startups too, for those who are in University looking at startups->
(this is obviously biased and there good startups out there, just wanted another viewpoint sent out)

Also just FYI, the minimum per year salary for my graduating class with a BS in computer engineering was 54K (in 2009) with ~35 people and 1 got as high as 65K, and the market is not that bad for developers/engineers that you should be going below that for an 'intern' job (i have no idea what that particular job was paying).  Work with your University to figure out average salaries out of Universities before you accept the first job offer that comes your way.  

-S

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Chris Rossi <chris-n9dCBDJAKcDiun+Ja4067AC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Robby Dermody <robby-sw7t4CfkVUNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
We’re a local company looking for a web developer intern to work on our flagship product, AppTend. AppTend allows companies to better support their smartphone and tablet-based users, and enables them to get customer support without having to dial into a clumsy phone tree interface (“press 1 for sales, press 2 for service”). Learn more about several cutting edge areas of technology, including Django, mobile web/mobile app development, HTML 5 and MongoDB. This is a great opportunity to learn some great technology with a real-world product that’s in use today by companies such as Samsung. 


Respectfully, I'd like to encourage any young readers considering this opportunity to consider the following:

An internship is an educational opportunity.  They are often arranged through colleges or universities and interns often receive class credit for participating.  Barring formal ties to an institution of higher learning, an internship aimed at adult post-graduates should at least provide an opportunity to learn skills one doesn't already have.  An internship tends also to be time limited--for a summer, for a few months.  Here's what Wikipedia says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship

Although the original poster stays within the letter of the law (you'd be making more than minimum wage), this particular opportunity, in my opinion, doesn't meet the standard of an internship.  Applicants are required to already be qualified for the position with both education and experience and are expected to work full time for a more or less open ended period of time.  That is the definition of a job.  Not an internship.  The required qualifications make it difficult to regard this as an educational opportunity, as you'd need to already know how to do the job.  The word internship seems to be used in this case to justify paying a wage that is below fair market value even for an entry level position.  Assuming you have the qualifications enumerated by the original poster, you're probably ready for a real entry level job, not an internship, and should expect commensurate compensation.

Just my 2 cents,
Chris


_______________________________________________
TriZPUG mailing list
TriZPUG-+ZN9ApsXKcEdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/trizpug
http://trizpug.org is the Triangle Zope and Python Users Group


_______________________________________________
TriZPUG mailing list
TriZPUG-+ZN9ApsXKcEdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/trizpug
http://trizpug.org is the Triangle Zope and Python Users Group

<div>
<p>I agree with much of what has been said about interns as I consider the only experience required for an intern is an introductory programming course (preferably python).</p>
<div><br></div>
<div>However, I think the article is from someone who made mistakes in their selection process of which startups to work for, probably due to not having some of the information that the article shares. &nbsp;I know there are a lot of bad startups out their who create this impression, but there are a lot of good startups as well. &nbsp;For some people, it is really how they are built. &nbsp;I love the energy in a startup's early stages, the excitement of hitting new milestones every month (or week), and building something new without a history to deal with. &nbsp;There are risks and you should go into a startup knowing those risks. &nbsp;If your only goal is to make sure you are paid at a certain level, then corporate America is probably the place for you. &nbsp;If you care more about the challenge an creating something new and just need a certain salary to fund your lifestyle, then maybe you would like a startup culture. &nbsp;I'm in my second startup now. &nbsp;The first was venture funded and I came in at a low salary as one of their first software developers. &nbsp;I stayed for 15 years and was well taken care of by the time it exited by being purchased by a public company. &nbsp;I stayed with the public company for a few years and hated it. &nbsp;Maybe it was just a bad division of a large company to work for like some startups, but I'll take a pay cut any day over that again. &nbsp;I do know people who work at large companies and love it as well so it really depends on the person and what drives them. &nbsp;The key is to make sure you know as much as possible about the situation you are getting into and then get out if it isn't working.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Definitely work with your university to figure out expected salary ranges. &nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>C<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Sean Cavanaugh <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:sean@..." target="_blank">sean <at> cavanaugh.pro</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">+1<div><br></div>
<div>any job saying the word 'intern' and 'experience' in the same breath is fishy. &nbsp;We have 6 interns in my building and we just required them to be in school (5 of them go to NC State). &nbsp;The idea is you train smart 'kids' that are in a technical degree (compsci, compeng, etc) and you only have to pay them minimally in return for education. &nbsp;I agree 100%</div>

<div><br></div>
<div>Here is a great article I read the other day on startups too, for those who are in University looking at startups-&gt;</div>
<div><a href="http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/dont-waste-your-time-in-crappy-startup-jobs/" target="_blank">http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/dont-waste-your-time-in-crappy-startup-jobs/</a></div>

<div>(this is obviously biased and there good startups out there, just wanted another viewpoint sent out)</div>
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<div>Also just FYI, the minimum per year salary for my graduating class with a BS in computer engineering was 54K (in 2009) with ~35 people and 1 got as high as 65K, and the market is not that bad for developers/engineers that you should be going below that for an 'intern' job (i have no idea what that particular job was paying). &nbsp;Work with your University to figure out average salaries out of Universities before you accept the first job offer that comes your way. &nbsp;</div>

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<div>-S<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Chris Rossi <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:chris <at> archimedeanco.com" target="_blank">chris@...</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<span>On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Robby Dermody&nbsp;</span><span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:robby@..." target="_blank">robby@...</a>&gt;</span><span>&nbsp;wrote:</span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">

<span>We&rsquo;re a local company looking for a web developer intern to work on our flagship product,&nbsp;<a href="http://www.apptend.com/" target="_blank">AppTend</a>. AppTend allows companies to better support their smartphone and tablet-based users, and enables them to get customer support without having to dial into a clumsy phone tree interface (&ldquo;press 1 for sales, press 2 for service&rdquo;). Learn more about several cutting edge areas of technology, including&nbsp;</span><span>Django, mobile web/mobile app development, HTML 5 and MongoDB</span><span>. This is a great opportunity to learn some great technology with a real-world product that&rsquo;s in use today by companies such as Samsung.&nbsp;</span><br><br>
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Respectfully, I'd like to encourage any young readers considering this opportunity to consider the following:</div>
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<div>An internship is an educational opportunity. &nbsp;They are often arranged through colleges or universities and interns often receive class credit for participating. &nbsp;Barring formal ties to an institution of higher learning, an internship aimed at adult post-graduates should at least provide an opportunity to learn skills one doesn't already have. &nbsp;An internship tends also to be time limited--for a summer, for a few months. &nbsp;Here's what Wikipedia says:&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship</a>
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Although the original poster stays within the letter of the law (you'd be making more than minimum wage), this particular opportunity, in my opinion, doesn't meet the standard of an internship. &nbsp;Applicants are required to already be qualified for the position with both education and experience and are expected to work full time for a more or less open ended period of time. &nbsp;That is the definition of a job. &nbsp;Not an internship. &nbsp;The required qualifications make it difficult to regard this as an educational opportunity, as you'd need to already know how to do the job. &nbsp;The word internship seems to be used in this case to justify paying a wage that is below fair market value even for an entry level position. &nbsp;Assuming you have the qualifications enumerated by the original poster, you're probably ready for a real entry level job, not an internship, and should expect commensurate compensation.</div>

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Just my 2 cents,</div>
<div>Chris</div>
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Gmane