Michael Tinsay | 20 May 10:06 2015
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On upgrading to SAMBA 4

Hello!

One of the things I'm looking to accomplish in the next few weeks is the deployment of SAMBA 4 AD DC to replace our aging SAMBA 3 NT4-style PDC/BDC + OpenLDAP.  For now I've been doing a lot of reading and googling.  I'm now deeply considering a thought: should I migrate the SAMBA 3 DB (users, machines, shares, etc.) via the classicupgrade tool or start things fresh?

For those who have experience SAMBA 4 deployment, I'd appreciate your input on this matter?


--- mike t.

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Roberto Verzola | 23 Apr 09:25 2015
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video streaming formats

What are the usuable formats for video streaming? (if you click on the
file, the browser render it immediately as video).

I ask this because the .mp4 output of ffmpeg is considered a corrupted
file by reconq and firefox browsers. But the original version reads
just fine.

I converted the .mp4 to .flv using kdenlive (it worked without hitch,
unlike openshot which crashes on me after several clicks on the menu).

But clicking on the .flv triggers an option to download and save, or to
open with a video player. Then it is downloaded first (a long time...)
before the player opens it.

I'm looking for a way to save the video in a form that what posted on a
website is streamed straight for rendering by a browser.

Greetings to all,

Obet
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Roberto Verzola | 22 Apr 05:34 2015
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ffmpeg / avconv

Dear pluggers,

I'm trying to convert a numbered sequence of jpg files into video. The
names are 0010.jpg, 0020.jpg, 0030.jpg etc. Would like to turn these
into a single .mp4, or whatever format will work.

I've tried ffmpeg, avconf, and winff but I only get as far as creating
the video file but it doesn't play. The created file is less than 20kb.

The ffmpeg command I tried (variations of...) is:

ffmpeg -f image2 -i *.jpg -r 12 -s 320x200 switchoff.mp4

I tried the gui winff but I can't find the menu options that will
convert multiple jpegs to video.

Any help would be appreciated.

Obet
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Roberto Verzola | 14 Apr 01:33 2015
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auto-display of a jpeg file behind a php script

Hi guys,

The Switch Off #NoBrownout "reality game" is moving forward gradually.
Thanks to Danny Ching, the jpeg file (updated hourly) is now hosted on
his ownCloud server. It is available via a url for other servers. Pls
email me privately if you want to get the file every hour too for
display in your own website or blog. You will need to set up the
ownCloud client on your system. Everyone might know this already, but
in case some don't (I didn't), ownCloud is a FOSS version of Dropbox.

I had an initial problem installing the client (my apt-get was
downloading an old v1.3 version which didn't work for me). But after
updating the sources, apt-get finally installed v1.8 and the problem
went away.

Obet

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Roberto Verzola | 14 Apr 01:42 2015
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auto-display of jpg file behind a php script

Hi guys,

I need more help on this one: I have a WordPress post which basically
points to a php script URL, that will give back a jpeg file.

My intention is to generate a URL for the WordPress post so that if
people access this URL from their browser, the browser picks up the url
to the PHP script, gets the jpeg file behind the script, and displays
the jpeg file.

What the browser instead displays is the alternate text, or if I take
that out, a graphic icon that the user must click, before the image
itself is displayed.

Is there a way to avoid this extra click? My Web browsing says it is a
security feature, but if a jpeg file is behind the php, and the user
had already requested a jpeg file, it seems to me the extra click is
not necessary.

Thanks in advance!

Obet
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Ramon de los Reyes | 13 Apr 10:37 2015
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network login access

hi,

What would be the best way for all network users to login first before they are granted access to it,  Like a Primary domain controller. Users are mostly windows based. Any pointers or website that shows how to set it up would be highly appreciated.

regards,
Mon
body>
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Roberto Verzola | 11 Apr 15:51 2015
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dropbox question

Hi pluggers!

I've installed dropbox on Linux. I get responses when I type dropbox
help, dropbox status, etc. It also says it is NOT running.

When I run dropbox start, it say run "dropbox start -i" to install the
daemon. I thought this would install dropboxd in memory.

But "dropbox start -i" tells me to download the "Dropbox proprietary
daemon", and then does a huge file transfer, without telling me what is
really happening, only a horizontal bar that shows % progress (not
actual size). And since it took minutes for it to reach 1%, I thought
these were unusually huge files, for software I thought I already
installed. So I canceled the transfer.

Any advice?

For context, the solution I am working on (Danny Ching, pls tell me
if I'm on the right track), is to save the Luzon load curve jpeg that I
can now properly generate (thanks to people here who helped out!), to a
directory which will be mirrored on Dropbox, and which will then be
shared with others interested in mirroring it on their servers.

Let me know also if this is a good solution or if there's a simpler one.

Here's another problem I already solved but it's an ugly klutz. NGCP
makes available the daily power supply status of Luzon (also Visayas
and Mindanao) at the url ngcp.ph/power_status.asp.

I get an html file and buried within it is the information I want
(Luzon MW capacity for the day).

I'm looking for a more resilient and simpler way. if any, than the
Python code below. It's a klutz, I know. The slightest change could
break it. I tried Beautiful Soup but I can't seem to install it
properly due to dependency problems that couldn't be resolved.

Greetings to all,

Obet

Extracting Luzon MW capacity from the html file returned by
ngcp.ph/power_status.asp:

from HTMLParser import HTMLParser

class HeadingParser(HTMLParser):
	
	inHeading = False
	prevdata = 'xxx'
	done = False
	capacity = []
	
	def handle_starttag(self, tag, attrs):
		if tag == 'td' or tag=='p':
			self.inHeading = True
			
	def handle_data(self, data):
		if self.inHeading:
			'''
			if not data.strip().isdigit(): print '\n'+
data , else: print ', '+data.strip() ,
			'''
			if not self.done:
self.capacity.append(data.strip()) if 'System Peak' in data: self.done
= True 
	def handle_endtag(self, tag):
		if  tag == 'td' or tag=='p':
			self.inHeading = False
			

def daysupply_asof():
	hParser = HeadingParser()
	f = open('ngcp.dat')
	html = f.read()
	f.close()
	hParser.feed(html)
	when = hParser.capacity[1].replace(',',' ').replace(')',
	'').split() 
	return ' '.join([when[7], when[5], when[6], when[3], when[2]]),
	hParser.capacity[3]

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Drexx Laggui [personal] | 9 Apr 10:39 2015
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Fwd: SANS Manila Community Night (April 23)

09Apr2015 (UTC +8)

Hello world,


Thought you, or anyone you know too, may wanna join us on the 23rd. SANS provides very technical cyber-security courses.

The event is free, and registration details are found below.


--Drexx

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sean Georget
Date: Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 2:37 PM
Subject: SANS Manila Community Night (April 23)


SANS, the world's most trusted source for information security training and research, is proud to announce a special SANS Community Event in Manila. We cordially invite you to join us at the American Chamber of Commerce, Corinthian Plaza Building for an engaging presentation from Mark Hofman, SANS Certified Instructor. 


Topic: Ransomware - A driver for having good backup strategies?

Presenter: Mark Hofman, SANS Certified Instructor

Date: Thursday, April 23, 2015

Time: 18:30 - 19:00 Registration
 19:00 - 20:00 Presentation

Location: Amcham (American Chamber of Commerce) Philippines
2nd Floor, Corinthian Plaza Building
121 Paseo de Roxas, Makati City.

RSVP to: asiapacific-3yDb4q2fBZk@public.gmane.org by April 21.

Note: This event is free of charge but space is limited and will be allocated on a first-registered basis.

********************

Abstract:

Ransomware such as Cryptolocker and cryptodefense have been targeting organisations in specific industry sectors.  We will have a look how these "products" work, what the net effect is for organisations and what can be done about them. We will reach the ultimate conclusion, backups are your friend.

Presenter Bio:
Mark Hofman, SANS Certified Instructor

Mark Hofman is a director and founder of Shearwater Solutions and has over 15 years' experience in ICT Security. He has worked for both private industry and government and has provided a wide range of information security consulting services to numerous organizations, including the financial sector, private sector, and government organizations. Mark is currently a certified instructor for the SANS Institute. He has had a number of publications, has trained and lectured internationally, and is a handler for the Internet Storm Center. Mark holds professional certifications, including CISSP, GIAC GCFW, CompTIA Security+ and BSI lead auditor accreditations.

********************

Mark will be teaching SEC401: Security Essentials Bootcamp Style at SANS October Singapore 2015, 12-24 October:

- SEC401: Security Essentials Bootcamp Style (GSEC certification) - taught by Mark Hofman
- SEC502: Perimeter Protection In-Depth (GPPA certification) - taught by Bryce Galbraith
- SEC560: Network Penetration Testing and Ethical Hacking (GPEN certification) - Pieter Danhieux
- SEC575: Mobile Device Security and Ethical Hacking (GMOB certification) - taught by Tim Medin
- SEC660: Advanced Penetration Testing, Exploit Writing, and Ethical Hacking (GXPN certification) - taught by Stephen Sims
- FOR508: Advanced Digital Forensics and Incident Response (GCFA certification) - taught by Nick Klein
- FOR518: Mac Forensic Analysis - taught by Hal Pomeranz
- ICS410: ICS/SCADA Security Essentials (GICSP certification) - taught by Paul A. Henry

Save US $350 when you register and pay for any 4-6 day course by September 2!

http://www.sans.org/u/3c6

Please contact asiapacific-3yDb4q2fBZk@public.gmane.org for further information.

********************

 

  

Sean Georget
Director, Asia Pacific

SANS Institute
The Most Trusted Name in Information and Software Security Training

www.sans.org
AsiaPacific-3yDb4q2fBZk@public.gmane.org

 




--

Drexx Laggui  -- CISA, CISSP, CFE Associate, ISO27001 LA, CCSI, CSA
http://www.laggui.com  ( Manila & California )
Computer forensics; Penetration testing; QMS & ISMS developers; K-Transfer
PGP fingerprint = 0117 15C5 F3B1 6564 59EA  6013 1308 9A66 41A2 3F9B

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Roberto Verzola | 3 Apr 03:45 2015
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downloading a php result

The output of the url below is a .CSV file (hourly-updated electricity
demand for Luzon).

http://wesm.ph/chart/export/luzon_dmd_csv_export.php?date=20150403&hour=10

This url is triggered when I click on a button online.

What I want to do is to download the resulting .csv file using wget.

But I keep getting an empty .csv file when using wget (I've tried
several suggestion I got on the Web). I know a .csv file is generated
somewhere because I get it when I click the CSV button online.

Any suggestions?

Have a peaceful Holy Week!

Obet
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Drexx Laggui [personal] | 1 Apr 08:52 2015
Picon

PacMan on Google Maps, now! :D

01Apr2015 (UTC +8)

Hey geeks! Check this out, PacMan on Google Maps, right now!

First, go to http://Maps.Google.com (used my Chrome on Ubuntu) and
look for a place with lots of streets.

Then, click on icon of PacMan at lower left corner.

Spend hours of brainless retro fun! :D

Drexx Laggui  -- CISA, CISSP, CFE Associate, ISO27001 LA, CCSI, CSA
http://www.laggui.com  ( Manila & California )
Computer forensics; Penetration testing; QMS & ISMS developers; K-Transfer
PGP fingerprint = 0117 15C5 F3B1 6564 59EA  6013 1308 9A66 41A2 3F9B
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Arvin Hagad | 28 Mar 17:19 2015

Re: PLUG Digest, Vol 119, Issue 28

guys this is tech forum for linux shiteee why u guys discuss stupid stuff and raising point by point issue,
stop whining with nonsens

this forum never change like the sacha chua incident, u guys are fcktards for real

> On Mar 27, 2015, at 11:32 PM, plug-request@... wrote:
> 
> Send PLUG mailing list submissions to
>    plug@...
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    plug-request@...
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    plug-owner@...
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of PLUG digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: debate (fooler mail)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 00:31:52 -0400
> From: fooler mail <fooler.mail@...>
> To: Rogelio Serrano <rogelio.serrano@...>,  "Philippine Linux
>    Users' Group (PLUG) Technical Discussion List"
>    <plug@...>
> Subject: Re: [plug] debate
> Message-ID:
>    <CAKPk3KSaN+kgvS+TAL0hZdtPzZRK49RQZuv2-ALsDQxmZDCWyA@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 8:46 PM, Rogelio M. Serrano Jr.
> <rogelios664@...> wrote:
>> What impact are you talking about? And corruption can't stop people
>> acquiring solar power production capabilities themselves.
> 
> problem with you ... again and again and again and again you always
> love to make a wild and baseless statements without supporting facts
> and  evidences of all your claims... lets go point by point...
> 
> understand and study carefully the link below...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_plants_in_the_Philippines
> 
> solar is a low efficiency energy producer compare to other sources of
> energy ... look at SaCaSol I... the largest solar plant in the
> philippines with the cost of 4.2 billion pesos... it occupies 66
> hectares of land area and ONLY produce 22 MEGAWATTS of power!.. you
> see the inefficiency there?
> 
> the proprietary thorium reactor will cost you $2M per MW of power
> (http://www.thoriumpowercanada.com/).. do the math how much will cost
> you if the exchange rate is 45 pesos to a dollar for a 22 megawatt of
> power compare to 4.2 billions of pesos of SaCaSol I?...take note that
> this is first generation of commercial thorium reactor and you will
> expect that is expensive...
> 
>> 
>> We are lucky we can do that. In Poland users of solar panels need to pay tax
>> for every kilowatt hour of electricity they use from their own solar panels.
> 
> here is your first wild and baseless statements... in poland...
> renewable energy is exempt from excise tax and not subject to real
> estate tax...
> 
> http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/issuesandinsights/articlespublications/taxes-and-incentives-for-renewable-energy/pages/poland.aspx
> 
>> Even the solar panel manufacturers have managed their waste effectively.
> 
> see.. even renewable energy produce wastes.... you forgot batteries
> are toxics  too... who will manage and dispose those batteries
> properly? that is another cost...
> 
>> And
>> what's the problem with using land not used for food production? You would
>> rather have people plant food crops on their roof?
> 
> there is where the impact begins.. population are growing and people
> needs land to live and to eat... do you want your solar panel which is
> not efficient in producing the energy and occupy massive land mass in
> exchange for food? .. wish you all the best to kill more people
> because of hunger and our planet is not green anymore...
> 
> as people are growing.. more houses are needed... it replace plants in
> favor of infrastructure... that is why environmentalist proposed the
> next generation of houses that their rooftop is capable to grow plants
> to compensate it....
> 
> since im not against renewable energy.. my only complain of solar is
> low efficiency to produce energy... here in boston.. there is a survey
> to community this month if we go for solar roadways... yes solar cells
> inside super-strong case to replace roads to illuminate road lines
> using LED and heating elements to resist ice and snow...  as this is
> in trial stage... needs to consider personal safety (eg. wheel
> traction efficiency at high speed.. breakage treshold for super heavy
> vehicles... water leakage... etc. )
> 
> but take note if you use all the batteries in the world to store solar
> energy.. it wont last for 10 minutes to supply the current world
> energy consumption (see bill gates presentation on TED)...
> 
> 
>> And the solar manufacturers can use solar power to produce solar cells.
>> Thats interesting.
> 
> you find that interesting? that is very interesting your
> interesting... of course you need energy source... even a diesel
> generator can produce solar cells and that is very interesting too...
> 
>> Solar is very low maintenance for potentially decades. And solar cells are
>> getting cheaper every year.
> 
> sure but the cost of destroying the green planet is much more
> expensive because it occupy more space with less energy to offer...
> 
>> 
>> Thorium research will require government support.
> 
> of course because the government governs what is good and bad for her country...
> 
>> Even big business can not
>> provide the money by themselves.
> 
> this is your second wild and baseless statement.... how you measure
> big business?
> 
>> You think the philippine government has
>> that kind of will?
> 
> your line of thinking makes philippines down in the drain... if you
> become president of the philippines... philippines is going nowhere...
> people in philippine government is coterminus!
> 
>> 
>> Only India has active reactors actually using thorium.
> 
> this your third wild and baseless statement...
> 
>> Even the u.s. never
>> went that far then they shut it down.
> 
> because you just read articles on the internet without knowing the
> reason behind there and keep on debating with me with your useless
> debate.. it shutdown because the US government prefer the other toxic
> reactor which is plutonium waste to produce more nuclear bombs...
> 
>> thorium needs an initiator. It does not really readily become critical by
>> itself. Its supposed to absorb neutrons to become uranium.Usually the source
>> is uranium itself which we dont have. Another way would be to use neutron
>> from accelerators. Which we don't have. Wait its actually illlegal to be
>> producing weapons grade uranium in the Phil.
> 
> you make me laugh.. you are now trying to project yourself as an
> expert in nuclear science... this is now very interesting indeed... go
> study thorium again if it is producing nuclear weapon and how much it
> needs in grams of thorium and uranium assuming we dont have those in
> the philippines.... this is now your fourth wild and baseless
> statement...
> 
>> Hmmmm. Accelerators require ...
>> lots and lots of electricity.
> 
> fifth wild and baseless statement... go study nuclear science more...
> 
>> Maybe we can use solar plants to provide that
>> power?
> 
> just use that solar plants in your house as you badly needed that...
> 
>> 
>> And thorium metal has the highest melting point of all metals and the only
>> possible way to use them is fuel in molten salt reactors.
> 
> your sixth wild and baseless statement.... tungsten metal in pure form
> is the highest melting point of all metals at 3422 degrees celcius
> while thorium is 1750 degrees celcius...
> 
>> Thorium is
>> interesting but still it requires uranium based infrastructure. Which the
>> Philippines will not have ever.
> 
> your seventh wild and baseless statement...
> 
> http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/energy/se/pp/unfc_egrc/unfc_ws_IAEA_CYTED_UNECE_Santiago_July2013/12_July/6_Reyes_Philippines_U_Resources.pdf
> 
> im really tired debating with your wild and baseless statement as you
> dont provide educational value and benefits here in plug...
> 
> fooler.
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 27, 2015 3:22 AM, "fooler mail" <fooler.mail@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>> i understand your side philip and i thank everybody (including you)
>>> who have the courage to an open debate with me and contribute to this
>>> debate...
>>> 
>>> the problem is.. the original poster is not an open minded and
>>> transparent.. and worst trying to project himself as an expert on the
>>> subject matter...  he hide the cons of solar energy and the impact to
>>> the environment in the long run compare to other energy sources..
>>> 
>>> one thing to note also the connivance of our corrupt officials and
>>> business man creating an artificial energy shortage because of the
>>> demand and supply principle... when the demand is high and the supply
>>> is low..  the price is higher... hence raking more profit...
>>> 
>>> fooler.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 11:01 PM, philip morales <mattiematics@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Thats is really not my point, :( if thorium is available now or if
>>>> someone
>>>> can start anything about it now then I will support it. Thats not a
>>>> problem.
>>>> :)
>>>> 
>>>> Those who think solar is a complete waste of time then nothing stop them
>>>> from engaging with it. Also we cannot shoot down someone who wants to
>>>> share
>>>> his work about renewable energy if he believes there are people who need
>>>> it
>>>> today.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 27, 2015 10:41 AM, "fooler mail" <fooler.mail@...> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> you said:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Thorium has the potential power and can be the solution but it cannot
>>>>> not be implemented today or in the near future."
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Doing nothing and waiting for something to happen, that is a waste of
>>>>> time."
>>>>> 
>>>>> thats the question because india already implemented and why
>>>>> philippines cant and doing nothing and waiting for something to
>>>>> happen?
>>>>> 
>>>>> see the tables of the link below why solar is a completely waste of
>>>>> time because of low efficiency and taking a lot of space compare to
>>>>> other sources of energy:
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_plants_in_the_Philippines
>>>>> 
>>>>> fooler.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:47 PM, philip morales
>>>>> <mattiematics@...>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I did not say the Philippines cant its not my point. I said we can
>>>>>> support
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 27, 2015 9:33 AM, "fooler mail"
<fooler.mail@...> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> other countries are using and improving thorium already...  india is
>>>>>>> doing it already.. why philippines cant?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> fooler.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:25 PM, philip morales
>>>>>>> <mattiematics@...>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Both renewable energy and thorium have their pros and cons.
>>>>>>>> Renewable energy may not be as promising as thorium but it can be
>>>>>>>> implemented and use today and can provide significant impact in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> lives of
>>>>>>>> our fellow citizen.
>>>>>>>> Thorium has the potential power and can be the solution but it
>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>> not be
>>>>>>>> implemented today or in the near future.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Why not use the best of both technologies? We can support Obet in
>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>> advocacy not by using it but by just sharing his works to others.
>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> reach those people who actually need it.
>>>>>>>> If in the future a project about thorium came up we can support it
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If we can utilize renewable energy for the next 10+++ years its a
>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>> investment.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Doing something that can give significant results like Obet's
>>>>>>>> advocacy
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> not a waste of time.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Doing nothing and waiting for something to happen, that is a waste
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mar 27, 2015 7:28 AM, "fooler mail" <fooler.mail@...>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> i respect that as we have different views johann... only time
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> tell someday...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> fooler.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Johann Vincent Paul Tagle
>>>>>>>>> <johanntagle@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Well Fooler, I'll just say I disagree with your statements
>>>>>>>>>> below
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> leave
>>>>>>>>>> it at.  Good evening.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 6:12 PM, fooler mail
>>>>>>>>>> <fooler.mail@...>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> hi johann...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> the problem is we are not solving the root cause of the
>>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>> energy crisis there in the philippines.. installing rooftop
>>>>>>>>>>> solar
>>>>>>>>>>> panels is a *bandaid* solution to our high cost of electricity
>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> in the philippines and not about reducing carbon footprint as
>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>> renewable energy proponents trying to fool us... like i said..
>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>> needs solar panels if we have a cheap electricity...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> fooler.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 3:52 AM, Johann Vincent Paul Tagle
>>>>>>>>>>> <johanntagle@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's been years since I last posted a comment here,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>> centavos worth:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fooler, I'll take your word for it re thorium.  Actually a
>>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> googling tells me it's promising.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> However, I think it is wrong to say that betting some
>>>>>>>>>>>> resources
>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> renewables is a complete waste of time.  While solar will
>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>> cover
>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, combined with other solutions it is sustainable.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>>>>>>> guess
>>>>>>>>>>>> what, it is something almost anyone can take advantage of.
>>>>>>>>>>>> What's
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> harm
>>>>>>>>>>>> in encouraging those who have the means to install solar
>>>>>>>>>>>> systems
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> homes to reduce their carbon footprint, given that even if
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>>>>>>> decides to invest in a thorium plant now, it will still take
>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>>>>> before we benefit from it?  Every MW or even kW saved NOW
>>>>>>>>>>>> helps.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There's
>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing wrong with promoting something that can give
>>>>>>>>>>>> immediate
>>>>>>>>>>>> results,
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> long as you don't overdo it and do more damage than good
>>>>>>>>>>>> (e.g.
>>>>>>>>>>>> clear
>>>>>>>>>>>> forests
>>>>>>>>>>>> to make a solar farm).
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think both renewables and thorium can be long term
>>>>>>>>>>>> solutions.
>>>>>>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>>>>>>> example, in places where it will be very expensive to lay
>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>> power
>>>>>>>>>>>> lines to
>>>>>>>>>>>> distribute thorium-generated electricity, things like solar
>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Johann
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Niels Tomey <niels@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yum -y remove coal-powered* && yum -y install
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thorium-reactor
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems like a good start. Honestly I don't think it's a bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philippines doesn't have nuclear power. Breaking down
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meralco's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> monopoly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be a better way to improve the power situation in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> country,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I don't see a reason why electricity should be more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> expensive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>>>>>>> than in my own country (Netherlands / Europe).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Niels Tomey
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manager Technical Operations Department
>>>>>>>>>>>>> iXSforall
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 2:01 PM, Rod James Bio
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rjubio@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi fooler,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have a suggestion on how we as a linux community,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people with no expertise when it comes to nuclear physics,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contribute?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/15 12:00, fooler mail wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hi dan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is the reason why i said in my other post that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> focusing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> renewable energy is a complete waste of time because it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sustainable... instead people must focus and accelerate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nuclear energy...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with clean nuclear energy.. it translates to abundant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> energy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electricity)... this translates further to...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) with abundant energy.. it creates more food
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) with abundant energy.. it creates more water
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) with abundant energy.. it creates more advance in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technology...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fooler.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 10:39 PM, Danny Ching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <dlccorps@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the disparity in the debate is about timelines.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sitting, both sides are correct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thorium obviously will become the de facto energy source
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for now, while we wait for the tech to become
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commercially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> available,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might be the best stop gap solution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 10:04 AM Kelsey Hartigan Go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kelsey.hartigan.go@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obet and I don't have a couple of billion dollars.  So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obet, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wait until Thorium development kit is available in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stores.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 26, 2015 9:13 AM, "fooler mail"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <fooler.mail@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my question is do you have the expertise to experiment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where to find thorium? i will let nuclear scientist do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiments
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and not you for your own safety.. sure they will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attack
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as the same as they attack the cost of renewable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> energy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> took more than a trillion dollars for the research of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cellphone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most of the users just use for selfie and post it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> facebook..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its just a couple of billion of dollars for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thorium...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fooler.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 8:38 PM, Kelsey Hartigan Go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kelsey.hartigan.go@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can buy solar panels in cdr-king. Where can you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thorium
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philippines if I want to experiment with it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By the way do they come with radiation protection?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bombard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> neutrons to make it fuel ready, it will be difficult
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handle.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In any case I don't think we'll see Thorium as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> renewable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> energy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anytime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a11907/is-the-superfuel-thorium-riskier-than-we-thought-14821644/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "When a technology is in some difficulty, and nuclear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shocked by the Fukushima accident in Japan, people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> search
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> magic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution, but there is no silver bullet," he says.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state of development of thorium versus other sources
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fuel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vast
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the cost of developing the technology is so high,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questionable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today whether it's worthwhile to spend a lot of money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thorium."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i was trying to suggest for you to look at thorium or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nuclear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> energy but your arrogance starts at this statement:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I'll look at thorium once I can buy it from a store
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Raon...)."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fooler.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Roberto Verzola
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rverzola@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I sent this as private mail but it seems to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ended
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list. My apologies to Mr. fooler. This was not meant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumption. Forgive an old man for his mistake.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:59:06 +0800
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roberto Verzola <rverzola@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your comment. It is hard to feel welcome
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plug
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fools
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who are only after winning debates and nothing else
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away browbeating others with insults and false
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expertise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It was my mistake, I took the bait. I should have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> known
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've ran lists and boards decades ago, and I still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow such rude behavior on lists I really care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not the moderator.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But of course each list has its own culture and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plug
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prefers it that way, that's also fine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 04:45:52 +0800
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gabriel Briones <jond3rd@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Roberto,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Welcome to PLUG :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debate is always part of the community and I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change. I've been to this list long enough to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witness
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And I alway admire people like you who initiates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> action
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cool
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down the topic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No idea is a bad idea, some ideas are just better,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what we're always saying, if what you're doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest is irrelevant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gabriel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Mar 2015 19:27, "Roberto Verzola"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rverzola@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I apologize to all for trigerring an off-topic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted was to reach old friends I knew were still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guys, just email me privately. (And google "NO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BRAINER"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Week.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greetings to all pluggers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obet Verzola
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
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