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Ramakrishnan M | 1 Mar 2000 03:57
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Re: gnu and linux

Sudhakar Chandrasekharan wrote:
> > > Why don't you agree.  Please elaborate.
> > Because common sense tells that it is a really stupid idea.

A better way will be to run the program "vrms".

> Excellent way of arguing.  I am sure you would get top marks for this kind
> of argument from any debating school.

I will not reply to this thread furthur(through list or personal). It seems it
is not worth arguing.

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  Ramakrishnan M				

" Chase the dream, not the competition "
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Dr. P. Sriram | 1 Mar 2000 04:32
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Re: gnu and linux (ilugc comes of age!)

dear luggies,

we can all be proud (?!) of the fact that ilugc now has come of age with
the witnessing of the first (mini) flamefest (?) on the mailing list. we
have come a long way, baby :-) 

sriram

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Ramakrishnan M | 1 Mar 2000 06:45
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Re: ilugc coming of age

"Penguin <at> AnnaU" wrote:

>      and by the way, what is vrms ? i tried man vrms but couldn't find

"vrms" is "Virtual Richard M Stallman". It will list out all the non-free
packages in your system. It is present in Slink CDs under the admin directory.
According to the package maintainer " Future versions of vrms will include an
option to also display text from the public writings of RMS and others that
explain why use of each of the installed
non-free packages might cause moral issues for some in the Free Software
community. This functionality is not yet included." 

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  Ramakrishnan M				

" Chase the dream, not the competition "
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R. Sriram | 1 Mar 2000 06:19

RE: gnu and linux

You missed the point. Im sorry I used some sarcastic humor to illustrate the
point. The point im trying to make is why are you hung up on gnu /linux. By
the same token everyone who has contributed to linux can say that they
deserve credit and their name should be included. I am sure that all of you
agree that people should get credit for what they do. That credit exists in
the code and no one is taking it away. If you are talking about gcc being
the root of all linux then I guess you can stretch the imagination and talk
about AT&T being the root of all unix and so AT&T saying that without us
there would be none of this. So add AT&T into all of this.

hansolo
PS: Hey how about changing our name to India GNU Linux Users Group Chennai.
IGNULUGC.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ilugc-bounce@...
> [mailto:ilugc-bounce@...]On Behalf Of
Ramakrishnan M
> Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 2:24 PM
> To: ilugc@...
> Subject: Re: gnu and linux
>
>
> "R. Sriram" wrote:
>
> > Do we have to call it GNU Linux by law or is it a choice. If it
> is a choice
> > and GNU is aimed at letting users have a choice, can I call it
> linux instead
> > of GNU linux?
(Continue reading)

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Sudhakar Chandrasekharan | 1 Mar 2000 07:15
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Re: gnu and linux

Ramakrishnan M wrote:
> A better way will be to run the program "vrms".

>From the dselect info about vrms:

"The vrms program will analyze the set of currently-installed packages
on a Debian GNU/Linux system, and report all of the packages from the
non-free tree which are currently installed. "

1. non-free under Debian contains all the software that are not licensed
under a copyright that complies with the Debian Free Software Guidelines
(DFSG: http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines).

2. Artistic License, BSD style license, Modified BSD license, MPL and
MIT License all comply with the DFSG.

3. vrms would treat software distributed under the above listed non-GNU
licenses to be free.

4. Ergo vrms would not measure how much of your system contains non-GNU
licensed software.

5. Considering that you have not provided any other concrete way of
measuring "GNU-ness" of a distributin I maintain my point that counting
klocs (lines of code) is still a decent way of measuring how much of
your system is GNU/Linux and how much of it is BSD/Linux or MIT/Linux.  

6. Counting the number of .deb / .rpm packages is not a valid measure
because some packages are huge (emacs, for example) while others are
miniscule (imaptool whose Debian package is maintained by yours truly).
(Continue reading)

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R. Sriram | 1 Mar 2000 06:09

RE: gnu and linux

Is Apache part of GNU? Most people use apache on linux. So dont you feel
that we shoudl call it Apache/GNU/linux. I mean even apache deserves credit
for the popularity of linux, right? I guess the same would be true of PERL.
It is the glue that holds together most applications that have made linux
useful on the net which is again a powerful reason to also include perl. Now
lets see, that would make it apache/perl/gnu/linux. I guess most people in
this forum havent read the 22 immuntable laws of marketing by Al Ries and
Jack Trout. Read the chapter about how naming can make or break a product.
It would difinitely nice to acknowledge all the people and organsiations
that have made a contribution. But I do not see why only two names should be
acknowledged. Why not a hundred. That way the whole linux community would
spend  more than 60% of its time spelling and pronouncing the name instead
of writing any code. Now that is good for linux or should I say
Apache/perl/Xfree86/Qmail/Zope/Python/gnu/linux. Of course it would also be
nice to have a name that keeps increasing in size everyday with more poeple
contributing to it. Then we can have contests like guess the new name of
"Apache/perl/Xfree86/Qmail/Zope/Python/gnu/linux" today and win a Santro.

hansolo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ilugc-bounce@...
> [mailto:ilugc-bounce@...]On Behalf Of Perrumal Adarsh
> Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 1:43 PM
> To: ilugc@...
> Subject: Re: gnu and linux
>
>
> It is neither a matter of law or choice. We call a product by a
> name to identify
(Continue reading)

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Ramakrishnan M | 1 Mar 2000 08:55
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Re: gnu and linux

"R. Sriram" wrote:

> You missed the point. Im sorry I used some sarcastic humor to illustrate the

You are "Free" to do so. 

> the root of all linux then I guess you can stretch the imagination and talk
> about AT&T being the root of all unix and so AT&T saying that without us
> there would be none of this. So add AT&T into all of this.

I would better not comment on this. I feel pity for your ignorance.

> PS: Hey how about changing our name to India GNU Linux Users Group Chennai.
> IGNULUGC.

Again you miss the point! Oh I forgot..it is sarcasm, right? 
It should actually be Free Un*x User's Group(FUUG), as we discuss/demo
GNU/Linux,FreeBSD etc etc. 

--
  Ramakrishnan M				

" Chase the dream, not the competition "
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Ramakrishnan M | 1 Mar 2000 08:51
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Re: gnu and linux

I am sorry. I am breaking my previous statement of no furthur posting.

Sudhakar Chandrasekharan wrote:

> 5. Considering that you have not provided any other concrete way of
> measuring "GNU-ness" of a distributin I maintain my point that counting
> klocs (lines of code) is still a decent way of measuring how much of
> your system is GNU/Linux and how much of it is BSD/Linux or MIT/Linux.

I still maintain my point. I sure many will agree with me. I can write a huge
program (with N number of lines of code) which does nothing very useful and
publish it under Mozilla Public Licence(MPL). If this is part of your 
distribution, then the above analysis you gave(or somebody in slashdot gave)
will go for a toss.   

> 6. Counting the number of .deb / .rpm packages is not a valid measure
> because some packages are huge (emacs, for example) while others are
> miniscule (imaptool whose Debian package is maintained by yours truly).

Exactly. The same argument applies to the "klocs" also. Only thing is "Huge"
not in terms of "Bytes" but in terms of "lines of code".

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  Ramakrishnan M				

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Ramakrishnan M | 1 Mar 2000 09:20
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Re: gnu and linux

"R. Sriram" wrote:

> contributing to it. Then we can have contests like guess the new name of
> "Apache/perl/Xfree86/Qmail/Zope/Python/gnu/linux" today and win a Santro.

This is how blind people explain an elephant.

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Ramani | 1 Mar 2000 10:52

Re: gnu and linux

I think I am learning a lot...please do go on!!!
Ramani

Ramakrishnan M wrote:

> "R. Sriram" wrote:
>
> > You missed the point.You are "Free" to do so.
>
> > the root of all linux then I guess you can stretch the imagination and talk
> >e.
>
> > PS: Hey how about changing our name to India GNU Linux Users Group Chennai.
> > IGNULUGC.
>

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Gmane