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Vernon Van Steenkist | 1 Dec 2007 01:03

Re: Changes to December Meeting Schedule

> On Nov 30, 2007 3:22 PM, Vernon Van Steenkist <vernon <at> drizzle.com> wrote:
>
>> I am disappointed that you decided to make this decision unilaterally. Is
>> this how you plan to make all future GSLUG decisions?
>>
>> <http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general>
>>
>
> somebody has to make the decisions!
>

The question is whether GSLUG will be a democracy of attendees or a
dictatorship. It was my understanding that it was going to be a democracy.
So the question remains, does Eric plan to be the dictator of GSLUG or
will GSLUG changes be discussed at meetings with members present?

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Ken Meyer | 1 Dec 2007 01:16

RE: Changes to December Meeting Schedule

Agreed, Bri, and in fact I endorsed that view in a previous post.

However, the original intent of the Lightning Talk, as I recall it, was for
a 5 minute presentation with up to 10 minutes for discussion, which is what
I think that Eric now proposes to enforce.  Nevertheless, the talks +
discussions that I have heard have typically run around half an hour without
people throwing spit-balls at the presenter at all.

I also just pointed out that a presentation that DID comply with the 5
minute rule did not contain enough meat on the fairly extensive subject of
using IRC (no fault of the presenter) to even generate coherent questions.

Ergo, I suggest that the experiment has already been conducted and the
parameters twiddled by common consent, and the group voted, by its interest,
to allow probably up to 30 minutes per subject, with the presenters having
settled on maybe 15 minutes for a comfortable presentation within it.

Of course, some discussion has tended to begin going in circles.  That is
not desirable, and the subject should be exited whenever that happens.
Also, as also asserted previously, there indeed are subjects that might be
dealt with in 5 minutes; and I gave an example thereof, but these are not in
general of a tutorial nature.

On the other hand, if the discussion is still going on vigorously after half
an hour, maybe it should be allocated a complete hour in the next meeting,
and the next subject initiated.  Many attendees have limited time to
allocate to the meetings; and attrition does occur, so an effort must also
be made to insure that some schedule is maintained.  It's just that the
schedule should be as realistic and as productive as possible.
(Continue reading)

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Hitoshi Satow | 1 Dec 2007 01:14
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thoughts..

I attended my first meeting last month.  So I'm new, but here is my two cents anywho..

1.  Can we have a few minutes when the meeting starts for some informal introductions.  At least meet the new guys?
2.  Give the sponsors a min to tell who they are, what they are doing for gslug
3.  State where donations go and what you get for donating (raffle ticket or not?)

I enjoyed the lightning talks about new software (i.e. tsocks and vimperator.)  I use vimperator all the time now.  For me it's key to see how other people approach and solve problems.

When I talk about Linux to my friends who use other operating systems, the FIRST thing I tell/show them is the CLI and how powerful it is.  Maybe lightning talks on individual commands in the CLI would be useful.  Even commands like ls, which I use all the time, have useful switches on them that I haven't used.

I'm looking forward to the talk on GNU screen.

-Toshi
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Power up! 
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Brian Hatch | 1 Dec 2007 01:32

CLI vs GUI


One thing I should point out is that Microsoft is putting
more and more into monad/powershell/whateveritscalledthisyear,
their CLI interface.

My windows power user friends say it's the best thing in years.

So the CLI isn't dead, regardless of operating system.

This was not meant as a troll, or to keep this thread alive.

--

-- 
Brian Hatch                  It's not illegal to scream
   Systems and                'fire' in a crowded theatre
   Security Engineer          if the theatre really *is*
http://www.ifokr.org/bri/     on fire...

Every message PGP signed

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Glenn Stone | 1 Dec 2007 01:40

Re: CLI vs GUI

On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 04:32:38PM -0800, Brian Hatch wrote:
>One thing I should point out is that Microsoft is putting
>more and more into monad/powershell/whateveritscalledthisyear,
>their CLI interface.
>
>My windows power user friends say it's the best thing in years.
>
>So the CLI isn't dead, regardless of operating system.
>
>This was not meant as a troll, or to keep this thread alive.

For what it's worth, I'm hearing the same thing from our resident BillWare
SME down the hall here.  He likes it.  (He likes CygWin even more :)

-- Glenn
"You can run, but you can't hide."  -- Jester, "Top Gun"
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Eric Butler | 1 Dec 2007 01:46

Re: CLI vs GUI

Invite him to the next meeting! :)

Everyone, please spread about GSLUG the word to friends and coworkers!

 - Eric

Glenn Stone wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 04:32:38PM -0800, Brian Hatch wrote:
>> One thing I should point out is that Microsoft is putting
>> more and more into monad/powershell/whateveritscalledthisyear,
>> their CLI interface.
>>
>> My windows power user friends say it's the best thing in years.
>>
>> So the CLI isn't dead, regardless of operating system.
>>
>> This was not meant as a troll, or to keep this thread alive.
> 
> For what it's worth, I'm hearing the same thing from our resident BillWare
> SME down the hall here.  He likes it.  (He likes CygWin even more :)
> 
> -- Glenn
> "You can run, but you can't hide."  -- Jester, "Top Gun"
> _______________________________________________
> Gslug-general mailing list
> Gslug-general <at> gslug.org
> http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general
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Eric Butler | 1 Dec 2007 02:43

Re: CLI vs GUI

This was of course supposed to say
"Everyone, please spread the word about GSLUG to friends and coworkers!"

I must have read my thoughts out of order.

23 people RSVPd now, thanks everyone for your help... but don't quit!
Microsoft may be right across the water, but I know that Seattle does
have a strong Linux community!

- Eric

Eric Butler wrote:
> Invite him to the next meeting! :)
> 
> Everyone, please spread about GSLUG the word to friends and coworkers!
> 
>  - Eric
> 
> Glenn Stone wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 04:32:38PM -0800, Brian Hatch wrote:
>>> One thing I should point out is that Microsoft is putting
>>> more and more into monad/powershell/whateveritscalledthisyear,
>>> their CLI interface.
>>>
>>> My windows power user friends say it's the best thing in years.
>>>
>>> So the CLI isn't dead, regardless of operating system.
>>>
>>> This was not meant as a troll, or to keep this thread alive.
>> For what it's worth, I'm hearing the same thing from our resident BillWare
>> SME down the hall here.  He likes it.  (He likes CygWin even more :)
>>
>> -- Glenn
>> "You can run, but you can't hide."  -- Jester, "Top Gun"
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gslug-general mailing list
>> Gslug-general <at> gslug.org
>> http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general
> _______________________________________________
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> Gslug-general <at> gslug.org
> http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general
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JT Gray | 1 Dec 2007 04:17
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Re: GSLUG Newbie Thoughts

I believe everyone here has fallen into grossly incorrect stereotype. Simply, that CLI is advanced and unfriendly, and GUI is simple and inviting.

I think of it more like CLI caters to admins and developers whereas GUI caters to home and business users who are looking to cut software expenses, though Eitan astutely identifies a subset of the latter:  "power users" looking to explore Linux software and FOSS philosophy.  Some of the difficulty in organizing LUG meetings is because of the broad spectrum of potential areas to cover.  For instance, can I present on a php cms or would I have to first explain the LAMP stack?  That could take more than fifteen minutes--and let's not even get started on rails.

A lot of people seem to express interest in different CLI/scripting lectures, but what is the context that will make it memorable to a new user?  Are we grepping logs?  Should the lesson then be about basic server administration?  Which server?

But now I've piled on when I meant to again argue that *the* LUG meeting should be more representative of the Linux community at large and not just subject tutorials.  Linux is just as political as it is CLI or GUI, and it's just as intermediate as it is beginner or advanced.

I contend that LUGs are not a place for 'classes' unless they're organized in a more entertaining capture-the-flag situation where teams could be organized so that different teams have people of different skill levels and everyone can participate and learn a few things (hopefully).  Hearing a few experts talk about random subjects can surely fill time slots for years into the future, but I just don't see many people spending their Saturdays learning proper bash syntax--or any particular subject for that matter; a LUG meeting isn't an LPI cram session.

Jeremiah
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Ken Meyer | 1 Dec 2007 05:16
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RE: CLI vs GUI

Agreed.  My son-in-law, who works there, and is the reason I have
teeth-marks in my tongue after every holiday dinner, says that many
developers there prefer even DOS for normal operations.  I am not dissing
the CLI, just suggesting an order of addressing things.  The CLI is best at
glue and systems operations, but if you don't have application data to
process, only people who enjoy manipulations for their own sake will be
enthralled, and the best way to access and instruct an app is, I suggest
until shown otherwise, usually through the GUI.

Ken M.

-----Original Message-----

From: gslug-general-bounces <at> gslug.org
[mailto:gslug-general-bounces <at> gslug.org]
On Behalf Of Brian Hatch
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:33 PM
To: gslug-general <at> gslug.org

Subject: [Gslug-general] CLI vs GUI

One thing I should point out is that Microsoft is putting
more and more into monad/powershell/whateveritscalledthisyear,
their CLI interface.

My windows power user friends say it's the best thing in years.

So the CLI isn't dead, regardless of operating system.

This was not meant as a troll, or to keep this thread alive.

--
Brian Hatch                  It's not illegal to scream
   Systems and                'fire' in a crowded theatre
   Security Engineer          if the theatre really *is*
http://www.ifokr.org/bri/     on fire...

Every message PGP signed

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Ken Meyer | 1 Dec 2007 05:23

RE: CLI vs GUI

Agreed.  My son-in-law, who works there, and is the reason I have
teeth-marks in my tongue after every holiday dinner, says that many
developers there prefer even DOS for normal operations.  I am not dissing
the CLI, just suggesting an order of addressing things.  The CLI is best at
glue and systems operations, but if you don't have application data to
process, only people who enjoy manipulations for their own sake will be
enthralled, and the best way to access and instruct an app is, I suggest
until shown otherwise, usually through the GUI.

Ken M.

-----Original Message-----

From: gslug-general-bounces <at> gslug.org
[mailto:gslug-general-bounces <at> gslug.org]
On Behalf Of Brian Hatch
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:33 PM
To: gslug-general <at> gslug.org

Subject: [Gslug-general] CLI vs GUI

One thing I should point out is that Microsoft is putting
more and more into monad/powershell/whateveritscalledthisyear,
their CLI interface.

My windows power user friends say it's the best thing in years.

So the CLI isn't dead, regardless of operating system.

This was not meant as a troll, or to keep this thread alive.

--
Brian Hatch                  It's not illegal to scream
   Systems and                'fire' in a crowded theatre
   Security Engineer          if the theatre really *is*
http://www.ifokr.org/bri/     on fire...

Every message PGP signed

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