The Austin (TX) Linux and General Discussion Mailing List

headers Donald Davis | 1 Sep 2007 01:43

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On 8/31/07, Donald Davis <donald_g_davis@...> wrote:
>
> I admire Sister's dedication and desire to renounce her evil M$ ways.
> However, I was a bit upset at how quick the M$ products were listed.
>

To clarify . . .  NoteTab is NOT a MS product!  Perhaps you're
confusing it with Notepad??  Yeah, I just wanted to get the database
installed so went the easy, familiar route.  I'm back in the fold now.
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* On Fri 2007-Aug-31 16:33:38 -0500, Shane Williams
<shanew@...> wrote:
> Is this how linux is going to win on the desktop?

  No.  Free Software / Open Source operating systems are going to win on
the desktop this way:

1) Company executive (finally?) listens to his IT department about the
security and financial benefits of Free Software / Open Source
solutions, and decides to act.

2) Said executive issues an edict from on high, stating, "Those of you
in the office this morning may have noticed that your
previously-Microsoft workstations are now running Kubuntu 8.04 LTS.  I
sign your paychecks, therefore this is what you will now use unless you
want to shell out the money for a retail copy of something else out of
your own pocket, and support it yourself.  Thank you for your
cooperation."  Can we say, "Netscape"?

3) User, who never really cared about the OS anyway, gets over the
initial two weeks of hand-wringing and re-training because he likes
doing silly stuff like eating and paying rent, and he realizes that
despite all the complaining, having to deal with differently-colored
icons really _isn't_ a job-changing dealbreaker.

4) The next time said user goes to buy a new PC, he realizes he can
save X amount of money by buying the same machine with Ubuntu pre-loaded
instead of MSW Vista; and he already knows Ubuntu because he's used it
at work.

  BAM!  It's a miracle!  Suddenly, GNU/Linux is ready for the desktop!

  No amount of training offered is going to help, because it still takes
time and effort and most people don't care what OS they use.
  Talking up the free-ness (as in beer) of the OS is irrelevant, since
both OSes are free as far as the end user is concerned.  (How many
people do you know who use MS Windows, who actually paid for it?  They
either think it's free because it was preloaded, or they pirated it.)
  No amount of talk about stability and robustness is going to help,
because MS Windows is already "stable enough" for most people.  We know
that that's only true because Microsoft has set their standards so
pathetically low, but that doesn't change the situation.

  Edicts from management in the workplace are going to win this battle,
and nothing else.  Or do you guys really think the quality of the
software is going to help?  Come on, have you even _seen_ KDE 3.5?  It's
so much better than anything Microsoft has ever created, it's not even
funny...and KDE 4 is going to make even that look like Windows95.  But
guess what..."it's not ready for the desktop".  (And a shout-out to my
homies in the GNOME camp...I'm sure the current version of GNOME is just
as kick-ass.[1]  :p) 

  Sorry if this sounds ranty, but I've kinda gotten this way after years
of trying (and, for the most part, failing) to get The World(tm) to See
The Light(tm).
  The revolution will come, to be sure...businesses vote only with their
wallets and the cost arguments are only going to sound better with age.
But it will come from the top down, not from the bottom up.

[1] And by that, I mean "almost ask kick-ass"!  nyah nyah

--

-- 
  John  !
 Buttery! A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a great friend
www.io.c! will be in the cell beside you, going "Man, that was AWESOME!"
om/~john!
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On Friday, Aug 31, 2007, John Buttery writes:
>* On Fri 2007-Aug-31 16:33:38 -0500, Shane Williams
<shanew@...> wrote
>:
>> Is this how linux is going to win on the desktop?
>
>  No.  Free Software / Open Source operating systems are going to win on
>the desktop this way:

[ nice example deleted ]

An alternate way it will win:

1) Company gets audited by the BSA.
2) Company exec goes ballistic over the cost of licensing to get and stay legal for Windows, MS Office, etc.
3) CTO/Sysadmin/Someone points out that Linux can do 99% of the same job, is arguably more secure (so less
time & staff spent dealing with virii and trojans on the intranet), and best of all doesn't have such
onerous licensing costs.
4) Company exec dictates 'No more Windows! (?:OpenOffice|Google Documents|KOffice) is Good Enough!'

This one I've seen happen.

  --pj

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Hey Shane, I can see it from both sides. On the one hand you want to win 
the hearts and minds of frustrated Windho users, but on the other hand 
you don't want to have to deal with the same users  if they are 
unappreciative or so frustrated that they become angry and take their 
anger out on you. That being said, I am not pointing fingers at anyone 
on this list. I know I have asked the obscure Windho question once or 
twice, so I know how hard it is to go from one O.S. to another. I 
usually try to pick some info up here and then do some research on my 
own before I start to ask too many "stupid" questions. And sometimes I 
feel I have asked some doosies.LOL.

Carlos

Shane Williams wrote:

> On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, chupacabra wrote:
>
>> I am not wasting bw on this thread.  Joe summed up both our 
>> opinions.  And I have never found any good tools in M$.  I also 
>> prefer they not be discussed here except to flame them and their 
>> users.  You like them so much get on some M$ list and leave us alone.
>
>
> Microsoft has made such a mess with Vista and other recent offerings
> that linux users have a chance to welcome the worn-out refugees into
> our camp, and instead you're going to deride them and turn them away.
>
> Is this how linux is going to win on the desktop?
>
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On Sat, 2007-09-01 at 00:59 +0000, Donald Davis wrote:

> >1) Company executive (finally?) listens to his IT department about
> the
> >security and financial benefits of Free Software / Open Source
> >solutions, and decides to act.
> How can this be done?  What if his/her  IT department is inept (owing
> to acculturation in the M$ society)?
> What can I do to convince my IT dept how inferior M$ is?  

Nothing.

If your IT dept is insisting on Microsoft and refusing to consider unix
alternatives, there are really only two possible reasons: either they
are incompetent or they have received orders from people wearing suits.
Neither case can be corrected by someone who *has* an IT dept rather
than being a part of it.

However, I would suggest, if you insist on attempting to convince
someone, that you focus not on whether and how Microsoft is inferior,
but rather on the positive values of Linux (or whatever other OS tool
you are proposing) and you will get better results.  You will probably
not get a mandate, but you may get permission.  "Permission" is the foot
in the door.

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