Banibrata Dutta | 1 Mar 2010 20:28
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ICT as a solution for rural education

Hi,


Probably, a case for ICT in remote education, as a solution to what this Tehelka article highlights.
Quite shaken after reading the article.

The article (and the accompanying slide-show) is quite graphic in highlighting the woes of women teachers in Rural India (Uttar Pradesh to be precise, in this case). Much of their pitiful state, has much to do with the perilous distance they travel every day to teach. If the teacher (a human) can give individual attention remotely, thanks to ICT (I know, I am dreaming here -- probably), the net-effect could be really win-win. 
  • Teachers are no longer so insecure and in constant state of mental agony and fear.
  • Teachers are hopefully less tired thanks to little need to travel (probably once in a while -- very infrequently).
  • Children get richer, continuous and seamless education (s.a. replay pre-recorded titles/sessions, insert multi-media for demonstration etc.)
  • Quick and easy evaluation of both students (and teachers).
  • Enable the process to weed-out the blood-sucking middle-men (the BSAs and Gram-Pradhans). There is no need for proximity or contact between these so called approvers and evaluators (of the teachers).
What say ? 
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sajan venniyoor | 2 Mar 2010 04:27
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Re: ICT as a solution for rural education

A question I was often asked in my Prasar Bharati years was, why can't AIR and DD be more like the BBC? To which the answer was, give us a country like the UK and we'll give you a public broadcaster like the Beeb. 


In most parts of rural India, I guess a half-way decent blackboard and chalk would be good ICT. Prasar Bharati and many state governments have seeded innumerable schools and village centres with radio and TV sets. Where the TV sets didn't end up in the homes of gram-pradhans, they mostly didn't work. No power, no maintenance. 

Outside of Blade Runner and other fictional dystopias, is it possible to have advanced technology in a dysfunctional society? If the 'last mile' in rural UP has to be navigated by bullock-cart and bicycle while dodging rapacious BSAs and rapist gram-pradhans, what are the chances of installing computers and TV sets in local schools, and getting them to remain, and getting them to work? 

Sajan


On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 12:58 AM, Banibrata Dutta <banibrata.dutta-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Hi,

Probably, a case for ICT in remote education, as a solution to what this Tehelka article highlights.
Quite shaken after reading the article.

The article (and the accompanying slide-show) is quite graphic in highlighting the woes of women teachers in Rural India (Uttar Pradesh to be precise, in this case). Much of their pitiful state, has much to do with the perilous distance they travel every day to teach. If the teacher (a human) can give individual attention remotely, thanks to ICT (I know, I am dreaming here -- probably), the net-effect could be really win-win. 
  • Teachers are no longer so insecure and in constant state of mental agony and fear.
  • Teachers are hopefully less tired thanks to little need to travel (probably once in a while -- very infrequently).
  • Children get richer, continuous and seamless education (s.a. replay pre-recorded titles/sessions, insert multi-media for demonstration etc.)
  • Quick and easy evaluation of both students (and teachers).
  • Enable the process to weed-out the blood-sucking middle-men (the BSAs and Gram-Pradhans). There is no need for proximity or contact between these so called approvers and evaluators (of the teachers).
What say ? 

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K.B.S. Ramachandra | 2 Mar 2010 05:14

Re: ICT as a solution for rural education

Dear Banibrata,
 
I believe that technology cannot be a substitute for human interaction in a teacher-student learning environment. The classrooms, with all their limitations are still required for primary / secondary education.
 
Technology cannot be the answer for every problem.
 
This Tehelka article seems to have dealt with this in a very superficial manner - with generalizations, unsubstantiated statements and unrelated quotes, I wouldn't give too much importance to what it says. In the Indian villages, it is a commonly known problem that children face difficulties in reaching the school (many of them having to walk several KMs, etc.). Teachers have the option of relocating to a nearer place. With several months of paid holidays every year, I think the teachers don't have much to complain.
 
Also, I don't agree with your concept of eliminating the middleman. These people are required to setup and maintain the system and the infrastructure right? If it is not the Gram Pradhan and the BSA, it will be the guys who setup and maintain the technology who'll be the middlemen.
 
Best regards,
KBS Ramachandra
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:58 AM
Subject: [india-gii] ICT as a solution for rural education

Hi,

Probably, a case for ICT in remote education, as a solution to what this Tehelka article highlights.
Quite shaken after reading the article.

The article (and the accompanying slide-show) is quite graphic in highlighting the woes of women teachers in Rural India (Uttar Pradesh to be precise, in this case). Much of their pitiful state, has much to do with the perilous distance they travel every day to teach. If the teacher (a human) can give individual attention remotely, thanks to ICT (I know, I am dreaming here -- probably), the net-effect could be really win-win. 
  • Teachers are no longer so insecure and in constant state of mental agony and fear.
  • Teachers are hopefully less tired thanks to little need to travel (probably once in a while -- very infrequently).
  • Children get richer, continuous and seamless education (s.a. replay pre-recorded titles/sessions, insert multi-media for demonstration etc.)
  • Quick and easy evaluation of both students (and teachers).
  • Enable the process to weed-out the blood-sucking middle-men (the BSAs and Gram-Pradhans). There is no need for proximity or contact between these so called approvers and evaluators (of the teachers).
What say ? 

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Atanu Dey | 2 Mar 2010 05:41
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Re: ICT as a solution for rural education

http://www.deeshaa.org/
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 8:57 AM, sajan venniyoor <venniyoor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
A question I was often asked in my Prasar Bharati years was, why can't AIR and DD be more like the BBC? To which the answer was, give us a country like the UK and we'll give you a public broadcaster like the Beeb. 

In most parts of rural India, I guess a half-way decent blackboard and chalk would be good ICT. Prasar Bharati and many state governments have seeded innumerable schools and village centres with radio and TV sets. Where the TV sets didn't end up in the homes of gram-pradhans, they mostly didn't work. No power, no maintenance. 

Outside of Blade Runner and other fictional dystopias, is it possible to have advanced technology in a dysfunctional society? If the 'last mile' in rural UP has to be navigated by bullock-cart and bicycle while dodging rapacious BSAs and rapist gram-pradhans, what are the chances of installing computers and TV sets in local schools, and getting them to remain, and getting them to work? 

Sajan

Sajan:

Very well put. I love the "outside of Blade Runner ..." statement. 

I have explored the idea of using hi-tech solutions in rural India on my blog. Here's an excerpt from a post from Dec 2004

The last time I wrote about the craziness of the ICT for development brigade. ICT tools are of course relevant for development in certain cases. But mindlessly applying ICT in each and every place is worse than doing nothing. If you spend scarce resources buying PCs for rural areas, you neglect other more relevant areas where those resources would have helped.

Adult education, for instance, is a crying need in rural India. You can, of course, use a variety of means of achieve that, ranging from blackboard and chalk, to radio and TV, to PCs with literacy software. Examining the economics of the situation could well reveal that blackboard and chalk is the most appropriate means. For a total capital expenditure of Rs 500 and an operating expenditure of Rs 1000 per month, you could make 20 adults literate in 6 months. Per capita cost would then be about Rs 325 (about $7.) Let’s do the numbers if you were to use a PC. Cost of hardware and software Rs. 20,000; power supply for the PC: Rs. 20,000; trained manpower and maintenance per month: Rs 3,000. Total cost: Rs 58,000. Per capita cost: Rs 2,900 (about $65.)

Of course, one could always use the PC for a number of uses, not just adult education. Instead of just educating 20 people, one could use it more intensively by say using it 12 hours a day and thus train 5 batches for a total of 100 people. Still, the PC method would cost Rs 70,000 and the blackboard method will cost Rs 25,000. By using the low-tech method, you save Rs 45,000. Here is an idea. Give Rs 450 as an incentive to the people: become literate for free and when you complete the course, you take home Rs 450. Total cost to the state: Rs 70,000, the same as the high-tech solution. Same expenditure but guaranteed different outcomes.

In the low-tech scheme, you give money to the rural adults. This is an incentive to them and better still, they in turn, spend the money locally which stimulates the local village economy. They buy food perhaps which helps out the farmers. Compare that to the high-tech scheme. The money goes to the manufacturers of hardware and software, which basically means Intel, Microsoft, HP and so on.

I hasten to add that rural India has a wide range of problems. Saying that not all of them are amenable to a high-tech solution also means that there are some problems that are the properly addressed by high-tech solutions. Point to point communcations of all sorts — voice, text, video — are best done using high-tech methods. Compared to carrier pigeons and even POTS (plain old telephone system), wireless WiFi and VOIP (voice over IP) will be cheaper.

Kind regards,
Atanu

Blog on India's Development


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Manasi Kumari Dash | 2 Mar 2010 07:21
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Re: ICT as a solution for rural education

Rural India is very big with varying infrastructural arrangements, road connectivity, food security problems, migrating populations (also displaced). So the solutions cannot be generalized. ICT is good at places like block centers, panchayat headquarters which have electricity and road connectivity. These are sought after places for teachers as well.

Schools with no electricity, no roads, no sincere village panchayat head are difficult places. There are lot of other problems in such schools:-
children may be babysitting/taking care of home, may be working in fields with parents, may be going to collect forest products, may be the state language is posing a problem, the the school timings is not ok for them, the people from one village may not be allowing children of displaced (relocated) population because of various factors ..... and so on. Teacher/Anganwadi worker, here also become a motivating agent and so, face-to-face interaction becomes a necessity.

regards
Manasi Dash


On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Atanu Dey <atanudey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
http://www.deeshaa.org/

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 8:57 AM, sajan venniyoor <venniyoor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
A question I was often asked in my Prasar Bharati years was, why can't AIR and DD be more like the BBC? To which the answer was, give us a country like the UK and we'll give you a public broadcaster like the Beeb. 

In most parts of rural India, I guess a half-way decent blackboard and chalk would be good ICT. Prasar Bharati and many state governments have seeded innumerable schools and village centres with radio and TV sets. Where the TV sets didn't end up in the homes of gram-pradhans, they mostly didn't work. No power, no maintenance. 

Outside of Blade Runner and other fictional dystopias, is it possible to have advanced technology in a dysfunctional society? If the 'last mile' in rural UP has to be navigated by bullock-cart and bicycle while dodging rapacious BSAs and rapist gram-pradhans, what are the chances of installing computers and TV sets in local schools, and getting them to remain, and getting them to work? 

Sajan

Sajan:

Very well put. I love the "outside of Blade Runner ..." statement. 

I have explored the idea of using hi-tech solutions in rural India on my blog. Here's an excerpt from a post from Dec 2004

The last time I wrote about the craziness of the ICT for development brigade. ICT tools are of course relevant for development in certain cases. But mindlessly applying ICT in each and every place is worse than doing nothing. If you spend scarce resources buying PCs for rural areas, you neglect other more relevant areas where those resources would have helped.

Adult education, for instance, is a crying need in rural India. You can, of course, use a variety of means of achieve that, ranging from blackboard and chalk, to radio and TV, to PCs with literacy software. Examining the economics of the situation could well reveal that blackboard and chalk is the most appropriate means. For a total capital expenditure of Rs 500 and an operating expenditure of Rs 1000 per month, you could make 20 adults literate in 6 months. Per capita cost would then be about Rs 325 (about $7.) Let’s do the numbers if you were to use a PC. Cost of hardware and software Rs. 20,000; power supply for the PC: Rs. 20,000; trained manpower and maintenance per month: Rs 3,000. Total cost: Rs 58,000. Per capita cost: Rs 2,900 (about $65.)

Of course, one could always use the PC for a number of uses, not just adult education. Instead of just educating 20 people, one could use it more intensively by say using it 12 hours a day and thus train 5 batches for a total of 100 people. Still, the PC method would cost Rs 70,000 and the blackboard method will cost Rs 25,000. By using the low-tech method, you save Rs 45,000. Here is an idea. Give Rs 450 as an incentive to the people: become literate for free and when you complete the course, you take home Rs 450. Total cost to the state: Rs 70,000, the same as the high-tech solution. Same expenditure but guaranteed different outcomes.

In the low-tech scheme, you give money to the rural adults. This is an incentive to them and better still, they in turn, spend the money locally which stimulates the local village economy. They buy food perhaps which helps out the farmers. Compare that to the high-tech scheme. The money goes to the manufacturers of hardware and software, which basically means Intel, Microsoft, HP and so on.

I hasten to add that rural India has a wide range of problems. Saying that not all of them are amenable to a high-tech solution also means that there are some problems that are the properly addressed by high-tech solutions. Point to point communcations of all sorts — voice, text, video — are best done using high-tech methods. Compared to carrier pigeons and even POTS (plain old telephone system), wireless WiFi and VOIP (voice over IP) will be cheaper.

Kind regards,
Atanu

Blog on India's Development



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Manasi Dash
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Vickram Crishna | 2 Mar 2010 08:03
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Favicon

Re: ICT as a solution for rural education

>From: Manasi Kumari Dash <manasidash4@...>
>To: india-gii@...
>Sent: Tue, 2 March, 2010 11:51:45
>Subject: Re: [india-gii] ICT as a solution for rural education
>
>Rural India is very big with varying infrastructural arrangements, road connectivity, food security
problems, migrating populations (also displaced). So the solutions cannot be generalized. ICT is good
at places like block centers, panchayat headquarters which have electricity and road connectivity.
These are sought after places for teachers as well. 
>
>Schools with no electricity, no roads, no sincere village panchayat head are difficult places. There are
lot of other problems in such schools:-
>children may be babysitting/taking care of home, may be working in fields with parents, may be going to
collect forest products, may be the state language is posing a problem, the the school timings is not ok for
them, the people from one village may not be allowing children of displaced (relocated) population
because of various factors ..... and so on. Teacher/Anganwadi worker, here also become a motivating
agent and so, face-to-face interaction becomes a necessity. 

[...no sincere village panchayat head] [...face-to-face interaction becomes a necessity]

Atanu paraphrases much the same point in his 2004 blogpost. While from the economic point of view, it hardly
matters whether you pour Rs 450 or Rs 900 down the drain, as long as the return is nil, the opposite argument
is equally likely: if there is sincere commitment and involvement, then Rs 900 for a computer-enhanced
environment fetches a far better return on investment than the chalk and blackboard. 

The problem is that in many places, the cost of bringing commitment and involvement may be much higher than
either 'pure education' choice: Rs 450 or Rs 900. Nor can the cost be easily segregated: spend Rs 1,500, get
commitment and involvement, now see how much is available to put in either a chalkboard or a computer.
Rather, the Rs 1,500 will become a cost overrun on a project designed for either the ICT or the education
track (where the assumption is that both expenditure and return are viewed as silos). 

The Jhai Networks approach seems to point the way (first comes involvement, then leadership, then system
design, finally implementation, deployment etc etc). The trouble is that such models don't fit the
narrow understanding (or fantasies) of dealmaking venture capitalists, either working in investment
centers (the traditional roosts) or funding agencies (the new, new, thing).   

What makes work in this sector so frustrating is the blinkered view of the administration: this would not be
such a problem if we were a frontier country, but the reality is we have a gigantic framework of rules and
regulations in place, that apparently is made for a particular economic model, but in reality is pliable
enough to accommodate many distortions. 

Vickram
http://communicall.wordpress.com
http://vvcrishna.wordpress.com
>
>regards
>Manasi Dash
>
>
>
>On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Atanu Dey <atanudey@...> wrote:
>
>http://www.deeshaa.org/
>>
>>
>>On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 8:57 AM, sajan venniyoor
<venniyoor@...> wrote:
>>
>>A question I was often asked in my Prasar Bharati years was, why can't AIR and DD be more like the BBC? To
which the answer was, give us a country like the UK and we'll give you a public broadcaster like the Beeb. 
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>In most parts of rural India, I guess a half-way decent blackboard and chalk would be good ICT. Prasar
Bharati and many state governments have seeded innumerable schools and village centres with radio and TV
sets. Where the TV sets didn't end up in the homes of gram-pradhans, they mostly didn't work. No power, no
maintenance. 
>>>
>>>
>>>Outside of Blade Runner and other fictional dystopias, is it possible to have advanced technology in a
dysfunctional society? If the 'last mile' in rural UP has to be navigated by bullock-cart and bicycle
while dodging rapacious BSAs and rapist gram-pradhans, what are the chances of installing computers and
TV sets in local schools, and getting them to remain, and getting them to work? 
>>>
>>>
>>>Sajan
>>
>>Sajan:
>>
>>Very well put. I love the "outside of Blade Runner ..." statement. 
>>
>>
>>I have explored the idea of using hi-tech solutions in rural India on my blog. Here's an excerpt from a post
from Dec 2004: 
>>
>>
>>>>>The last time I wrote about the craziness of the ICT for development brigade. ICT tools are of course
relevant for development in certain cases. But mindlessly applying ICT in each and every place is worse
than doing nothing. If you spend scarce resources buying PCs for rural areas, you neglect other more
relevant areas where those resources would have helped.
>>>Adult education, for instance, is a crying need in rural India. You can, of course, use a variety of means
of achieve that, ranging from blackboard and chalk, to radio and TV, to PCs with literacy software.
Examining the economics of the situation could well reveal that blackboard and chalk is the most
appropriate means. For a total capital expenditure of Rs 500 and an operating expenditure of Rs 1000 per
month, you could make 20 adults literate in 6 months. Per capita cost would then be about Rs 325 (about $7.)
Let’s do the numbers if you were to use a PC. Cost of hardware and software Rs. 20,000; power supply for the
PC: Rs. 20,000; trained manpower and maintenance per month: Rs 3,000. Total cost: Rs 58,000. Per capita
cost: Rs 2,900 (about $65.)
>>>Of course, one could always use the PC for a number of uses, not just adult education. Instead of just
educating 20 people, one could use it more intensively by say using it 12 hours a day and thus train 5 batches
for a total of 100 people. Still, the PC method would cost Rs 70,000 and the blackboard method will cost Rs
25,000. By using the low-tech method, you save Rs 45,000. Here is an idea. Give Rs 450 as an incentive to the
people: become literate for free and when you complete the course, you take home Rs 450. Total cost to the
state: Rs 70,000, the same as the high-tech solution. Same expenditure but guaranteed different outcomes.
>>>In the low-tech scheme, you give money to the rural adults. This is an incentive to them and better still,
they in turn, spend the money locally which stimulates the local village economy. They buy food perhaps
which helps out the farmers. Compare that to the high-tech scheme. The money goes to the manufacturers of
hardware and software, which basically means Intel, Microsoft, HP and so on.
>>>I hasten to add that rural India has a wide range of problems. Saying that not all of them are amenable to a
high-tech solution also means that there are some problems that are the properly addressed by high-tech
solutions. Point to point communcations of all sorts — voice, text, video — are best done using
high-tech methods. Compared to carrier pigeons and even POTS (plain old telephone system), wireless
WiFi and VOIP (voice over IP) will be cheaper.
>>>>Kind regards,
>>Atanu
>>Blog onIndia's Development
>>
>>
>>____________________________________________________________
>>>>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>     india-gii@...
>>>>To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>>     india-gii-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>>>For all list information and functions, see:
>>>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/india-gii
>>
>>
>
>
>-- 
>Manasi Dash
>

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Sanjay Verma | 2 Mar 2010 08:32
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RE: ICT as a solution for rural education

Dear Banibrata,

I find the Tehelka article a bit sensational although not to be rubbished entirely. Similar to the TV talk shows which try to address and find solutions within the specified 1 hour to long standing and complicated issues (and end up distorting the real issue) this article is also trying to reach a conclusion within the operational limitations, ie oversimplified approach.

Nonetheless the issue of ICT being the guiding light for rural education has to be viewed holistically. I believe that education/ rural education is a subset of Social development which includes employment, infrastructure, poverty alleviation, health and many other attributes. If ICT is used for education and the other attributes are not addressed then it may result in a skewed situation which may even become self-defeating. ( Not to mention that ICT for education may also fail).

eContent for education is also an issue which needs a lot of attention.

I believe that ICT for social development should be rigorously debated and cautiously approached to avoid its premature failure for, ICT to my mind is still the most promising way to go to speed up social development.

Sanjay

Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 00:58:26 +0530
From: banibrata.dutta-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
To: india-gii-exipcMZXGhH9nmKIgjYY/w@public.gmane.org
Subject: [india-gii] ICT as a solution for rural education

Hi,

Probably, a case for ICT in remote education, as a solution to what this Tehelka article highlights.
Quite shaken after reading the article.

The article (and the accompanying slide-show) is quite graphic in highlighting the woes of women teachers in Rural India (Uttar Pradesh to be precise, in this case). Much of their pitiful state, has much to do with the perilous distance they travel every day to teach. If the teacher (a human) can give individual attention remotely, thanks to ICT (I know, I am dreaming here -- probably), the net-effect could be really win-win. 
  • Teachers are no longer so insecure and in constant state of mental agony and fear.
  • Teachers are hopefully less tired thanks to little need to travel (probably once in a while -- very infrequently).
  • Children get richer, continuous and seamless education (s.a. replay pre-recorded titles/sessions, insert multi-media for demonstration etc.)
  • Quick and easy evaluation of both students (and teachers).
  • Enable the process to weed-out the blood-sucking middle-men (the BSAs and Gram-Pradhans). There is no need for proximity or contact between these so called approvers and evaluators (of the teachers).
What say ? 

Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.
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Suresh Ramasubramanian | 2 Mar 2010 10:51
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Fw: [SANOG] APNIC Community Consultation Wednesday, 3 March 2010


------Original Message------
From: Srinivas Chendi
Sender: sanog-bounce <at> sanog.org
To: SANOG
Subject: [SANOG] APNIC Community Consultation Wednesday, 3 March 2010
Sent: Mar 2, 2010 15:18

______________________________________________________________________

APNIC Community Consultation Wednesday, 3 March 2010
_____________________________________________________________________


The ITU is considering the possibility of becoming an International
Internet Registry, as well as the possible implementation of a Country
Internet Registry model to use as an alternative to the Regional
Internet Registry system.

APNIC's Community Consultation session on Wednesday, 3 March 2010 is
your opportunity to discuss the issues and ramifications of the ITU's
possible entry into the IP address management arena.


Participate onsite
------------------

Where: Conference Hall 2, Kuala Lumpur Convention Center
When:  14:00 - 15:30


Participate online
------------------

When:  Kuala Lumpur time:  14:00 - 15:30
        UTC:                 6:00 -  7:30

How:   Audio and video streaming
        Interactive chat
        Live transcripts


For more information about how to attend this session remotely, see:

     http://meetings.apnic.net/29/remote



For more information about this session, refer to:

     http://meetings.apnic.net/29/program/consultation



You are also invited to submit written contributions to this session
before 9:00 AM UTC time on 5 March 2010 to:

     ipv6 <at> apnic.net

_______________________________________________________________________

APNIC Secretariat
Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC)    Tel: +61-7-3858-3100
PO Box 2131 Milton, QLD 4064 Australia             Fax: +61-7-3858-3199
Level 1, 33 Park Road, Milton, QLD                 http://www.apnic.net

_______________________________________________________________________
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Iqbal | 3 Mar 2010 14:20
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Re: ICT as a solution for rural education

Hi

I read a post on this list a few days ago about 35,000 Cr coming from 3G or something like that. Surely with that kind of money education can be implemented, whether its with technology or without. Also I think the way in which we are trying to address the problem is wrong, i.e the direction.

The end goal of education for most in rural India is a good job. The end goal for a company is to get good talent, this is where we need to create the bridge, between companies and education, and not just teach for the sake of teaching. A company which builds relationships with children early on, will have a lifelong supporter. Aside from this there are further benefits. If we can provide a bottle of coke to someone in rural india, it already means we can "reach" them physically. If there is an office with some form of IT presence in a district, it means you have some physical space which can be (evenings) used as a classroom. I know this maybe way out there thinking, hopefully not too wild.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that we already have the reach, and the chances are the infrastructure, (I know its not perfect, but then even in delhi, infra still sucks) all we need to do is to use is effectively.
On top of the infra, if the companies are incentivsed to help teach & reach, and the tier 1 educational establishments are also, then and only then will this be possible. Waiting for ICT, and some miracle iphone app to allow people to learn howto count, and speak, will not happen, we just need to go back to basics, chalk + board in a existing office, and use it at weekends + evenings.

Encourage large instituions to "donate a lecture room", during evenings or weekends, and get 1000 local students from surrounding villages in for a weekend, all uni's have IT access if needed, and worst case they have a blackboard and chalk. Imagine what a child would think, instead of sitting under a tree learning to count, he sits as a desk, like a "proper" student...its all about selling the dream, and then making it real.

Regards
Iqbal Gandham

From: Sanjay Verma <sanjaysverma-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
To: india-gii-exipcMZXGhH9nmKIgjYY/w@public.gmane.org
Sent: Tue, 2 March, 2010 7:32:05
Subject: RE: [india-gii] ICT as a solution for rural education

Dear Banibrata,

I find the Tehelka article a bit sensational although not to be rubbished entirely. Similar to the TV talk shows which try to address and find solutions within the specified 1 hour to long standing and complicated issues (and end up distorting the real issue) this article is also trying to reach a conclusion within the operational limitations, ie oversimplified approach.

Nonetheless the issue of ICT being the guiding light for rural education has to be viewed holistically. I believe that education/ rural education is a subset of Social development which includes employment, infrastructure, poverty alleviation, health and many other attributes. If ICT is used for education and the other attributes are not addressed then it may result in a skewed situation which may even become self-defeating. ( Not to mention that ICT for education may also fail).

eContent for education is also an issue which needs a lot of attention.

I believe that ICT for social development should be rigorously debated and cautiously approached to avoid its premature failure for, ICT to my mind is still the most promising way to go to speed up social development.

Sanjay

Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 00:58:26 +0530
From: banibrata.dutta-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
To: india-gii <at> lists.cpsr.org
Subject: [india-gii] ICT as a solution for rural education

Hi,

Probably, a case for ICT in remote education, as a solution to what this Tehelka article highlights.
Quite shaken after reading the article.

The article (and the accompanying slide-show) is quite graphic in highlighting the woes of women teachers in Rural India (Uttar Pradesh to be precise, in this case). Much of their pitiful state, has much to do with the perilous distance they travel every day to teach. If the teacher (a human) can give individual attention remotely, thanks to ICT (I know, I am dreaming here -- probably), the net-effect could be really win-win. 
  • Teachers are no longer so insecure and in constant state of mental agony and fear.
  • Teachers are hopefully less tired thanks to little need to travel (probably once in a while -- very infrequently).
  • Children get richer, continuous and seamless education (s.a. replay pre-recorded titles/sessions, insert multi-media for demonstration etc.)
  • Quick and easy evaluation of both students (and teachers).
  • Enable the process to weed-out the blood-sucking middle-men (the BSAs and Gram-Pradhans). There is no need for proximity or contact between these so called approvers and evaluators (of the teachers).
What say ? 

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Ramnarayan.K | 3 Mar 2010 19:24
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Re: ICT as a solution for rural education


On 3/3/10, Iqbal <feelin_tired <at> yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi

The end goal of education for most in rural India is a good job. The end goal for a company is to get good talent, this is where we need to create the bridge, between companies and education, and not just teach for the sake of teaching. A company which builds relationships with children early on, will have a lifelong supporter. Aside from this there are further benefits. If we can provide a bottle of coke to someone in rural india, it already means we can "reach" them physically. If there is an office with some form of IT presence in a district, it means you have some physical space which can be (evenings) used as a classroom. I know this maybe way out there thinking, hopefully not too wild.

I suppose with this formula every educated person will get a job in a company. Good idea, the question is who is going to grow our food, plant trees, tend the cows that give milk, tend the cotton or the wool bearing sheep.  I suppose we have some technology for all this and more. Or may be we can leave the food growing and such mundane tasks to companies that , like most others, have only one single motive profits, or even better companies that will use us as lab rats to try out their GM crops. The rat race hasn't made us rat enough.

Postal letters, money orders, telegrams "reached" the rural people far before coke, in fact maybe the post-person may have even physically touched the "rural person". So we can reach (and touch) the rural person how does that translate into anything more than physically reaching them. Teachers are physically present too (atleast some of them for some of the time) and some of them do make a difference, while some others have walked off with the computers to their real places of stay / work.

Most districts i am familiar with are a few 1000 sq kilometers. Nope their not the downtown districts of manhattan or london, So how is one supposed to reach an "x" location in a "district" every evening just because its available.

IT presence: means what ? a computer that works. Massive IT presence. Question is would you lend your work computer out every night / evening  to some (any ) kids because they have a need to learn and your computer isn't used at night.
 
I guess what I am trying to say, is that we already have the reach, and the chances are the infrastructure, (I know its not perfect, but then even in delhi, infra still sucks) all we need to do is to use is effectively.

What infrastructure are we talking about and i would be nice if you gave examples of any company in a rural area which is not there to "captilalize on the natural resources" that the rural folks are "unfortunately" living on. Most companies i have seen in operation in the rural areas are guarded by 24 hour security, barbed wire fences and sodium vapor lamps (often on even in the day). The only place that has more protection is the local booze shop, which at a crunch can double up as a prison. And the rural people in the same neighborhood continue to leave their doors unlocked. Fat chance that such companies will share anything with the "rural" people. In fact such companies would happily like to see the "rural people" just disappear, it would solve all their biggest problems.
  
A Company, which is developing a major project in a remote rural area decided to set up an ITI in the "name " of promoting technical education. Unfortunately for the folks of this rural area they are unable to access the ITI. Why, because the company decided it was better to set up the ITI in a city about 300 km away as it would attract more educated youth. Nice very nice corporate Social irresponsibility. Jai Ho , mere paisa mahaan, mere shareholder even more mahaan.


On top of the infra, if the companies are incentivsed to help teach & reach, and the tier 1 educational establishments are also, then and only then will this be possible. Waiting for ICT, and some miracle iphone app to allow people to learn howto count, and speak, will not happen, we just need to go back to basics, chalk + board in a existing office, and use it at weekends + evenings.

I think the miracle needed is some political spine, control on corruption, work ethic on part of the entire administration and the teachers. And since we are talking about a miracle a really responsible corporate sector would be nice too.

Meanwhile we have droves of young people leaving rural areas in desperation for any education, any job. Anything to try and live the dream, the shining india dream,  doesn't matter if its plying a rickshaw in moradabad, or pretending to a Gorkha Bahadur in agra or washing dishes in the middle circle in connaught place anything like this in shining india must be better than self respecting life of a farmer. 
 

Encourage large instituions to "donate a lecture room", during evenings or weekends, and get 1000 local students from surrounding villages in for a weekend, all uni's have IT access if needed, and worst case they have a blackboard and chalk. Imagine what a child would think, instead of sitting under a tree learning to count, he sits as a desk, like a "proper" student...its all about selling the dream, and then making it real.

 
I suppose you know the logistics for a 1000 people. Over the weekend apart from the donated lecture room (rural india is sprinkled with lecture rooms that can accomodate 1000 folks at one go) they would need a place to spend the night maybe even sleep a bit, bathrooms for some banal daily duties, food and stuff. And we are talking about children so then the added logistics of how they will come and go, accompanied or not, etc etc and then we have to watch out for all the predators, the purveyors of the nithari kind or maybe the ones looking  for some easy child labour or even the vile body slave traders. And we haven't even started off on gender, religion and caste issues. And at the end of this series well organized week ends for 1000's fo children they will become educated and eligible for a job.

"Proper Student" why should learning at a desk be the only proper way. And what is this dream you speak about - it would be fascinating to hear about what you think rural people dream about.  Coke must be on their mind for sure and maybe a burger or two and then take in the late night movie.

The only reason i have even written these many lines is because people seem to live in their virtual worlds and some how forget that the real  world is not a bunch of  rows and columns and possible permutations.

How are these ideas any different from the current rote and rat race system we have in place. Why do we want every one to have a corporate job, is there a job for every one from the rural areas.  The rural sector has the best ability to absorb unemployed labour. (aside from the government i suppose) and at the same time this continued focus on educating people in a manner that reduces their capability to continue to work better locally detracts from what real education is about. I think folks in the rural area would like to return the favor by asking for a new system of education where every single city dwelling child needs to live on a farm for a few years. Learn how to grow food, conserve water, milk a cow, keep chicken, process grain, plant trees, collect forest produce, tend sheep,  (you know what  thinking about all this gives me an idea that this could the one killer app for the diephone a game to live on a farm  amd you can only play the game by sitting on the ground cross legged)

***
This ICT for rural folks is a much addressed issue. A lot of people have already said  lot of sensible things about the future of education and the role of ICT, and how funds can be made more effective.

I think before people come up with more thoughtless and insensitive  ideas (as in the mail quoted)  maybe they should spend some time putting their bodies where their words are.

Other wise "it is way out there thinking", way out on any moderate sense of reality.

ram
Rural India (not shining but definitely surviving)
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