Vickram Crishna | 23 Apr 04:13 2015
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Re: Fwd: IAC's response to TRAI's Consultation Paper no. 2/2015 "OTT Services"

Oops, I did it again...

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From:"Vickram Crishna" <v1clist-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA@public.gmane.org>
Date:Thu, 23 Apr, 2015 at 7:41 am
Subject:Re: [india-gii] Fwd: IAC's response to TRAI's Consultation Paper no. 2/2015 "OTT Services"

The problem with mass response, something that was only possible to analyse in detail with the advent of electronic communication, is that it can be spoofed. But to criticise the actual responses, as though the very concept of public feedback is flawed, is going a bit far.

Suresh's illustration of a sort method is not far-fetched, it is the obvious technique for rapid analysis. 

In contrast, the public action against the Mumbai Development Plan, which is concurrent with this neutrality campaign, is characterised by activists assisting citizens to create individualised letters, the  majority of which have been submitted on paper. Analysis will be exceedingly difficult, and sorting out the boilerplate responses a mammoth task. 

Yet it should be done for the simple reason that, unlike the trai draft proposal, there are likely to be thousands of helpful details to a better plan contained in the public feedback.

Rather than discuss the sociological implications of the actual aggregated responses of hundreds of thousands of people, I suspect this list has been far more useful in the past to understanding and appreciating the role of technology in the evolution of the mass response process. Anticipating the outcome, by characterising the bulk of the responses as boilerplate, without any analysis at all, does not help. 

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From:"Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh-psnYtti16QOsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
Date:Thu, 23 Apr, 2015 at 5:36 am
Subject:Re: [india-gii] Fwd: IAC's response to TRAI's Consultation Paper no. 2/2015 "OTT Services"

The eff and others do this a lot in the USA - and there if I don't miss my guess the best way to deal with these is 'count the number of boilerplate submissions and delete them' - so feedback received that x people wrote in to support whatever it is that got the eff / other org's goat, and more reasoned submissions by those who don't suffer from herd mentality from watching John Oliver or AIB can get examined in the limited time available.

--srs

> On 23-Apr-2015, at 12:55 am, Banibrata Dutta <banibrata.dutta-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> The cookie-cutter / cyclostyled response sent out to TRAI, that had apparently flooded it's mailbox, is probably not the best tool.

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Vickram Crishna | 22 Apr 15:22 2015
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Re: Fwd: IAC's response to TRAI's Consultation Paper no. 2/2015 "OTT Services"

Sorry, this did not get sent to the list... forwarding it now.

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From:"Vickram Crishna" <v1clist-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA@public.gmane.org>
Date:Wed, 22 Apr, 2015 at 11:04 am
Subject:Re: [india-gii] Fwd: IAC's response to TRAI's Consultation Paper no. 2/2015 "OTT Services"

In my opinion, the spirited response to Sarabjit's post was mainly because of its negative tone, and lack of alternatives, plus the mysterious references. 

Still he does suggest the issue is restricted to mobile networks, as though the fact of their overwhelming reach (over other media solutions for information exchange) is irrelevant in terms of the use that society finds. The counter argument is that whatever use that be, it should not restrict by design the access to information for others, and that does not mean provide access for free, it means don't throttle the pipes. It does not mean you can't be trusted, it just that somebody else already holds the keys and we aren't looking for change.

But if we do look for change, it should certainly be away from the unbridled monopoly handed to one particular purveyor of a narrow group of technologies, a set of businesses whose worth is suspiciously higher than their turnover might lead one to expect. So far, the discussion seems to be centered more on an ugly little skirmish between a couple of contenders, as though the symptoms are the disease.

Is it feasible? As technology, yes there are alternatives, but in terms of the  wherewithal to do it, it is chicken and egg until the knowledge and awareness of how straightforward it is to do this sort of thing in villages percolates. 

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From:"Sarbajit Roy" <mail.sarbajitroy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
Date:Wed, 22 Apr, 2015 at 9:55 am
Subject:Re: [india-gii] Fwd: IAC's response to TRAI's Consultation Paper no. 2/2015 "OTT Services"

Dear Mahesh

I did not imply or impute that you are a Mukesh Ambani associate or minion.

I posted the link to your article accompanied by text describing that a news portal associated with Shri Mukesh Ambani, ie. Firstpost.com, was circulating articles encouraging people to "spam" the TRAI's consultation process on a non-issue like "net neutrality" over mobile phone networks.

There is a concerted campaign by foreign interests to get certain beneficial provisions of the IT Act disabled, directly or indirectly.

The first step to this was taken in the SC's 66-A judgement - which under cover of 66-A effectively disabled the ITIGR 2011 in its concluding paras without any reasons - except that Google and Facebook were overloaded with complaints being made to them under these rules.

The net neutrality frenzy being whipped up, is only a smokescreen for more such skullduggery. And that Reliance Jio is the largest "datapipe" waiting to be activated makes it more interesting.

Sarbajit


On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 12:03 AM, Mahesh Murthy <mahesh.murthy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Thank you, Sarabjit.

I am the author of the post that FirstPost put up, with my permission.

Some bloke on DataQuest has just said I was a stooge paid by Bezos. 

And you're saying it's Mukesh Ambani who is behind me.

Look, I'm glad either way.

Can you please get one of these billionaires to pay me?

All well-meaning stooges deserve to get paid.


Warm regards,


Mahesh

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Nikhil Pahwa <nix.subs-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

Have you ever done stand-up comedy?

On Apr 21, 2015 10:07 PM, "Sarbajit Roy" <mail.sarbajitroy <at> gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Nikhil

1) What "allegation" ? I see "opinion" which is being conveyed in a formal response to a controversial public notice for consultation issued by a statutory authority. I also see lots of people, voicing their "opinion" on this non-issue, which I would like to respond to by way of submitting formal counter-comments. If anyone has a problem with what I write, they can respond in the same way, or take me to court.

2) For eg. we have a Mukesh Ambani associated media outlet on this RFC which contributed to my forming my aforesaid "opinion" on this non-issue.
http://www.firstpost.com/politics/big-fight-net-neutrality-airtel-voda-trai-trying-screw-internet-users-2193321.html

3) You have your sources, I have mine.

Sarbajit

On 4/21/15, Nikhil Pahwa <nix.subs-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Really? "Private info" ?
>
> If you're making an allegation,  then you should be ready to prove it.
> On Apr 21, 2015 4:59 AM, "sarbajit roy" <mail.sarbajitroy <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tarun
>>
>> a) Private info
>> b) Counter-comments allowed till 8 May 2015
>> c) Open Houses are the norm at TRAI, but I wonder how they will go
>> about counter-comments / OpenHouses with so many submissions.
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>> On 4/20/15, Tarun Dua <lists-w/I/dHsHQyvk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> > On what basis do you make this statement ?
>> >
>> > "That IAC’s long response will follow after a) “anal”ysing the millions
>> of
>> > “spam” protests demanding “Net Neutrality” sent to you, which
>> incidentally
>> > appear to IAC as being organized by Mr. Mukesh Ambani’s 4G associates /
>> > minions over their vast media cross-holdings, b) counter-commenting on
>> the
>> > same, c) participating in the TRAI’s Open House/s and so on."
>> >
>> > -Tarun
>> >
>> > On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Sarbajit Roy
>> > <mail.sarbajitroy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> >> To:
>> >> TRAI
>> >>
>> >> Please find attached our response to TRAI's paper no 2/2015
>> >>
>> >> sincerely
>> >>
>> >> Er. Sarbajit Roy
>> >> for "India Against Corruption"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> India-gii mailing list
>> >> India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/DKwHSkZAkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
>> >> https://lists.india-gii.org/mailman/listinfo/india-gii
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> India-gii mailing list
>> India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/DKwHSkZAkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
>> https://lists.india-gii.org/mailman/listinfo/india-gii
>>
>

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sarbajit roy | 21 Apr 01:29 2015
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Re: Fwd: IAC's response to TRAI's Consultation Paper no. 2/2015 "OTT Services"

Hi Tarun

a) Private info
b) Counter-comments allowed till 8 May 2015
c) Open Houses are the norm at TRAI, but I wonder how they will go
about counter-comments / OpenHouses with so many submissions.

Sarbajit

On 4/20/15, Tarun Dua <lists <at> tarundua.net> wrote:
> On what basis do you make this statement ?
>
> "That IAC’s long response will follow after a) “anal”ysing the millions of
> “spam” protests demanding “Net Neutrality” sent to you, which incidentally
> appear to IAC as being organized by Mr. Mukesh Ambani’s 4G associates /
> minions over their vast media cross-holdings, b) counter-commenting on the
> same, c) participating in the TRAI’s Open House/s and so on."
>
> -Tarun
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Sarbajit Roy
> <mail.sarbajitroy <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>> To:
>> TRAI
>>
>> Please find attached our response to TRAI's paper no 2/2015
>>
>> sincerely
>>
>> Er. Sarbajit Roy
>> for "India Against Corruption"
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> India-gii mailing list
>> India-gii <at> lists.india-gii.org
>> https://lists.india-gii.org/mailman/listinfo/india-gii
>>
>

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Ratnendra Pandey | 19 Apr 17:31 2015
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How to hold a conference callers in India?

I am trying to hold a conference call with enough lines for about 20-30 people to be able to call in from india.
What is the best way to do that? Ideally I would like it to be free. In USA, there are several free conference service providers. But, I am willing to look at options available on a payment.

Sincerely,
Ratnendra Pandey
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Sarbajit Roy | 19 Apr 06:55 2015
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Fwd: IAC's response to TRAI's Consultation Paper no. 2/2015 "OTT Services"

To:
TRAI

Please find attached our response to TRAI's paper no 2/2015

sincerely

Er. Sarbajit Roy
for "India Against Corruption"

Attachment (TRAI_OTT.pdf): application/pdf, 178 KiB
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Nikhil Pahwa | 1 Apr 10:01 2015
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TRAI's Internet licensing and Net Neutrality paper: abridged version

Some of us have compiled an abridged version of the TRAI consultation paper on "OTT" licensing and Net Neutrality. In case you don't want to read the 118 page version, here's a shorter version with some of the weird statements included:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kNXtANR9UV6fSjV2DNrkcIMAJVVN4CJfHHiq_0kkx8E/edit#heading=h.gjdgxs
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Banibrata Dutta | 30 Mar 07:27 2015
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Prison term for mobile OpCo for failing to meet quality requirements

On another thread, Ratnendra made an good / thought-provoking point which I missed to acknowledge, and that is the relevance of a body like TRAI. Presently, I am of the opinion that TRAI still serves a very crucial role, although it's powers are somewhat diluted, but it has made many attempts at making telecommunication service more pro-consumer. Unfortunately, as is the case for most publicly traded companies, things that are pro-consumer, are usually seen as anti-business, since it is viewed as a 'zero sum game'. However, even if a business is not publicly traded, greed can still turn any venture into a 'zero sum game'. This is why regulators are needed, and that should be their primary goal, apart from ensuring some sense of 'fair share' of scanty resources.

Here's Africa leading the charge in being pro-consumer, quite contrary to what champions of capitalism in the western world couldn't do.
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2902814/nigeria-joins-list-of-african-countries-threatening-prison-sentences-for-mobile-operators.html

And, this is so similar to the trend that Icelanders started, by sending Bankers to jail, for failing them: http://www.cnbc.com/id/102422785

Social progress is not the prerogative of the "seemingly most advanced, most industrialized" first-world countries, since this is a benchmark they just don't seem to get -- most often.
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Banibrata Dutta | 28 Mar 19:14 2015
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TRAI consultation on OTT licensing

Haven't read it myself, but looks important enough for community members to be aware about it.

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sarbajit roy | 26 Mar 17:10 2015
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NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a Bogus Business School

Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a Bogus Business School

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/04/03/manipulating-wikipedia-promote-bogus-business-school-316133.html
By Alastair Sloan / March 24, 2015 12:20 PM EDT

Vickram and/or veteran Wikimedians on this channel can know that on 13
March 2015 I had already filed a formal IT Act case concerning
'inter-alia' these gangs of rogue extortionate Wikipedia
administrators hiding behind their anonymity and multiple fictitious
IDs and who have given Indian Wikimedians a bad name.

In my complaint I have asked for "Wifione" to be unmasked and
prosecuted for ruining the lives of thousands of Indian students. My
action was preceded by 2 years of dialog by our side with fellow
Wikipedians / WMF and a 3 month action in Switzerland brought by WMF
against me which then gave me a cause of action to file the IT case in
India.

In our instances, we were subjected to illegal demands and financial
threats since 2013 and my dialog with Wikimedia Foundation's legal
counsel repeatedly ran into a brick wall of solid indifference and
evasions to protect their anonymous admins. It was only thanks to a
proactive Indian board member that things started moving and 5 old
time Wikimedia Admins were eventually "globally banned" in December
2014 as a result of coordinated efforts between veteran members of the
WIKIMEDIA community who had seceded in 2008 from the WMF's "projects"
after realizing what d****b*gs they were.

Sarbajit
Vickram Crishna | 25 Mar 05:42 2015
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Re: 66A outed

I assume this was meant for the list ;-). I notice that my phone email client also has difficulties handling the reply-to-all option. 

In India, net neutrality is seriously hampered by the implicit monopolies and oligopolies encouraged in the teeth of an apparently cut-throat competition amongst the telcos. There appears to be universal acclaim for this model and the low calling rates it has brought about.

What is missing is the discussion on data. Since voice is treated as a digital artefact, universalising data access makes the provision of voice access a triviality, in theory. The role of telcos moves towards backbone provision, with devices enabled to maximise data movement on whichever frequency and protocol delivers the best solution, technically. Could this be achieved today by devolving last mile access to a plethora of local networks, none of which is permitted a monopoly? Can we understand just why this might in any negative manner impact end-user prices for voice?

There are serious and important issues around the use of wireless, we should not forget. At the present moment in time, the situation is such that industry and government seem placed together, shouldering a battle against controlling indiscriminate radiation, a situation that only seems to affect humans who do not work for government or telcos, it would seem, from the quality of discussions. In practice, the industry solution has proliferated systems in place that tend to boost radiation at dangerously close distances (the phones) and in concentrations at longer distances (the cell towers). 

I am not saying that a widely devolved solution would always work in the public interest. How would I know? But it has worked where telcos fear to tread, such as Djursland in Denmark and northern Spain, the Guifi network. 

For India, it seems to reach out to that much maligned bottom of the pyramid, that magical place where Mana Radio and Airjaldi could today have been providing high quality digital data access in their backwater regions (not geographically backwaters, you understand, one is the Deccan traps and the other the Himalaya), connecting them to the world through locally built initiatives, no billionaires taking over. If not for the monopoly of the airwaves.

Vickram

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From:"Nikhil Pahwa" <nix.subs-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
Date:Tue, 24 Mar, 2015 at 7:53 pm
Subject:Re: [india-gii] 66A outed

Net neutrality. :)

On Mar 24, 2015 11:33 AM, "Vickram Crishna" <v1clist-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA@public.gmane.org> wrote:


http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-live-supreme-court-strikes-down-section-66a-of-it-act-2071523

Unconstitutional. Use of vague terms.

What is the next stage for the movement that persisted in getting this clarification from the Supreme Court?

Vickram

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Vickram Crishna | 24 Mar 07:00 2015
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66A outed


http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-live-supreme-court-strikes-down-section-66a-of-it-act-2071523

Unconstitutional. Use of vague terms.

What is the next stage for the movement that persisted in getting this clarification from the Supreme Court?

Vickram

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