Sheila Mooney | 3 Apr 2006 01:44
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[Sum] Dession Session 2 on Stamping and Communications

In advance of the design session this Tues, I wanted to summarize the stamping discussions we have had on the list since the last design session on Mar 14th.

Thread: Dession Session 2 on Stamping and Communications

Relevant concerns giving context to this email
- stamping will not work for all use cases
- stamping does not allow you to link multiple items together - no way to link 2 events to a single note
- we don't really have a fully vetted ui solution for linking

Take away concern from this thread
- there is some disagreement that this use case is really suited to stamping
- there is a need to want to solve the multiple item problem
- the developers think about it from the perspective I have this thing "book" and there are some events I want to link to it - that have some relationship to the book
- Mimi is thinking, I have this thing "book" and I want to put it on my calendar for relevant events - this book directly spawns some events - kind of like I will likely take this book to all these various events I am attending

Proposal:
+ Morgen replied to this thread with a proposal that unifies stamping and linking in the detail view.
+ instead of the stamp being a stamp/no stamp toggle, you could continue to click on any stamp to add more kinds to that particular item

Use Case: 
+ I have a book "Time Traveller's Wife" and want to stamp it as an event multiple times or add multiple messages, notes etc.

Philippe:
+ there is a current assumption made by the detail view that it displays one item only.
+ we don't currently have a UI proposal for displaying and manipulating linked items (ie: item browser)

Morgen:
+ explained that under the hood we are actually displaying multiple items in the detail view. Each attribute itself (email address vs to field) is an item.
+ likes his proposal because if you collapse the linked items you have the item list you want.
+ if you want to see more detail, you don't have to leave the context you are in.
+ you should be able to click on any of those linked items - using some affordance to get to the detail view of that item

Mimi:
+ we could consider an alternative approach to thinking about this
+ you could think about this scenario as it it's a recurring event
+ we have a book and we want to create a custom recurring series to put it on the calendar in multiple places
+ each of these would be represented as a row in the summary table view. 
+ we can edit the data in the detail view to be specific for this instance of the event - who field might contain data that relates to a host for a book club, a lecturer, the author for a book signing
+ you basically have a set of events where the topic is this book but the events could be quite different (book club vs book signing)

Morgen:
+ doesn't understand how you would create such an event
+ would you create a series (monthly) and delete everything that you didn't care about, just to have 3 events which are kind of distinct anyhow.
+ this seems more like 3 discrete events 
+ as a user I would rather be viewing the book in the detail view and have affordances for attaching an event* to the book; or be viewing the week view, creating an event on the appropriate day and attaching the book (or multiple books) to the event (by dragging, or having a +Book button in the detail view like in my mockup).

Mimi:
+ there is no ui for this currently
+ we would assume we would support advance recurrence where we could create such a series in an easy way
+ just providing another perspective on how to think about this rather than thinking about linking
+ just exploring this to address concerns about how far we can push stamping

Jeffrey:
+ we haven't exposed any UI for custom recurrence but he imagined that we would support powerful features like this in the future

Bryan:
+ at a user perspective, he doesn't feel this is a recurrence use case
+ thinks it's really a situation where some form of tagging relates what are really disparate events.
+ recurrence is best suited for situations where we are trying to present the appearance of one thing - a recurring meeting
+ changes would not likely apply to all these events once they are related other than fixing a spelling error etc.
+ each of these events is it's own thing and just links back to something it has in common


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Marc Gibeault | 3 Apr 2006 15:19

Bad PowerPoint files

When viewed with MS PowerPoint 2003, some images seems to be missing and the
formatting is weird.
-Marc
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:20:07 -0800
>From: Mimi Yin <mimi <at> osafoundation.org>
>Subject: [Design] Design Session 3 on Stamping
>To: Chandler Design list <design <at> osafoundation.org>
>Message-ID: <F0647090-E717-4E04-976F-A085231007C2 <at> osafoundation.org>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Next Tuesday April 4, 2006 2:15-3:45PM in Whoville
>
>(The storyboards are currently only available in PPT format. 
>The wiki doesn't seem to want me to upload files right now :o(
>
>http://wiki.osafoundation.org/bin/view/Journal/StampingStoryboards

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Sheila Mooney | 3 Apr 2006 17:34
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[Sum] Reengineering stamping

Thread: Reengineering stamping

Things we are hearing from this thread:
+ there are these different types of coupling that we could use for our implementation model
+ we should try and loosen the tie between the user's mental model and the domain model. 
+ by tying them too tightly together we continue to block on issues and we should be considering the best implementation for the desired user experience
+ there is still a lack of understanding on how we will solve the one-to-many and many-to-many relationship  

Jeffrey:
+ sent out his thoughts to the dev list on stamping
+ introduced 3 concepts: identity coupling, tight coupling and loose coupling
+ identity coupling
+ what stamping is today
+ an email is also an event
+ forces a 1:1 relationship between kinds
+ able to share attributes easily
+ tight coupling
+ a connection between 2 items
+ when user displays email A, they also see item B
+ Mimi would like to have users experience tight coupling but it doesn't have to be identity coupling
+ loose coupling
+ link between 2 items (anchor tag on an html page)

Mimi:
+ replied to the design list and tried to rephrase Jeffrey's summary in design terms
+ identity coupling - 1:1 coupling, putting an email on the task list
+ tight coupling - having more than 2 items in the same Kind branch stamped with a 3rd (the meeting agenda is 2 spec proposals) You could multi-select 2 items and stamp them.
+ loose coupling - having attributes point to one another
+ Mimi pointed out there is yet a 4th kind of relationship - the thread relationship which has been described in the past as clusters

Jeffrey:

+ agrees with Mimi's description but wanted to point out that it's more of an implementation detail on whether stamping uses identity or tight coupling.
+ the design team should never notice this since we can make the experience to be like identify coupling but still allow for the ability to couple multiple items.
+ the issue at an implementation perspective is how to model the same item being multiple events
+ this still doesn't address the issue of shared attributes but the goal of the conversation move the apps team towards thinking that we can reengineer stamping and we don't have to stick with the existing implementation.
+ specifically avoided talking about clusters since he felt they mainly affected the rendering in the summary table view and would like to have this discussion on a separate thread from coupling/stamping

Alec:
+ points out that ...
+ Mimi is describing the design relationships and how those would be represented to the user
+ Jeffrey is describing the domain model relationships
+ we've tightly matched the design relationships (i.e."stamping") all the way down through the domain model (i.e. so "stamping" == "identity") 
+ this implementation is not quite working anymore
+ the big question = is identity coupling necessary all the way down to the domain model
+ in response to Mimi's summary
+ identity coupling isn't just a 1:1 mapping - it's the same item (alec at work and alec at home are the same alec)
+ tight coupling describes the relationship between 2 items, it doesn't describe the number of items involved
+ loose coupling - at the design sense this has meaning but at an implementation perspective there is no distinction between tight and loose coupling

Mimi:
+ only concern about a linking implementation model is whether or not it will make it more complicated to overlap attributes
+ this means, how do we change the context of the fields without creating new ones
+ ie: an email is stamped as a task and the to: field becomes assigned to:

Alec:
+ people are still on the fence about the identity issue
+ in my opinion there are a number of open design questions
+ If I delete an e-mail message stamped as a task from my task list, does that delete the original e-mail message itself (the one that was originally recieved), or just "unstamp" it as a task and leave it as an e-mail message? Can I leave the "task" part in the trash and keep the e-mail part around? 
+ when I "unstamp" something am I breaking identity by destroying one facet of the item, or are they being split off into two items? If we're destroying, where does that data go? Can it be restored? If its being split off, where does the other half go? the trash?
+ when something is "stamped" vs "tightly coupled" is there an easy transition between these two? i.e. if the user has to make a choice between "Stamping" and "tightly coupling" what happens if they want to 'spin off' the taskness of an event into a whole separate item? Do they unstamp (potentially losing information?) and then "tightly couple" or is there a smooth demotion?
+ If I sent a mail message to 3 people, stamp it as a calendar item and add 2 more people, where is the original e-mail message that I sent to the first 3 people? Is it visible/searchable etc.
+  If my e-mail comes in with the subject "Re: [Chandler-dev] sections oddity" and I put it on my task list, can I give it my own Task title like "File a bug against alecf for this problem" or does it show up in my task list as "Re: [Chandler-dev] sections oddity"?
+ If the title is shared and I've edited it to be "File a bug against alecf for this problem" then what does it look like in my e-mail collection, grouped with other messages with the same original subject?
+ If the title is not shared, what does the detail view look like?
+ What if two people stamp the same, shared event as a Task because they each have items to prepare for the meeting and then sync.. is the "taskness" now merged between the two?  If the 'task' on each person's personal chandler is different, but the event is the same, does identity still hold? i.e. if on my machine "Event 42" = "Task 1" and on your machine "Event 42" = "Task 99" and we sync, does "Task 1" = "Task 99"?

Mimi:
+ most of these questions have already been answered over the past 2 years but are not well documented
+ Mimi will try and address most of these with the storyboards she and Katie are working on rather than replying in detail to this email

Morgen:
+ is waiting for the storyboards but has one comment
+ feels that Mimi's example referenced in http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/design/2006-March/004356.html doesn't show a need from a user's standpoint
+ doesn't quite get the associating multiple events to a book case - understands the goal of stamping in the 1:1 case.
+ he still feels it doesn't address the one to many and many to many relationship
+ thinks the recurrence model is unwieldy and only works for events
+ how would you turn a book into multiple tasks
+ is hoping the storyboard will show how this is accomplished in the UI

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Jim Sowers | 3 Apr 2006 19:43

Re: Bad PowerPoint files

For me there were some issues on the left border.  I am using Open Office Impress.  Shouldn't the Open Applications Software Foundation be using Open Office?  2.0.2 is working pretty well!  You know why everyone uses Word?  Because everyone uses Word.  Really no technological advantage to it--just installed base now.  In fact, OO has built-in PDF functionality.
Same issue with Outlook-installed base.  Lead the charge OSAF -- create your presos as .odp files :-)

Jim

Marc Gibeault wrote:
When viewed with MS PowerPoint 2003, some images seems to be missing and the formatting is weird. -Marc
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:20:07 -0800 From: Mimi Yin <mimi <at> osafoundation.org> Subject: [Design] Design Session 3 on Stamping To: Chandler Design list <design <at> osafoundation.org> Message-ID: <F0647090-E717-4E04-976F-A085231007C2 <at> osafoundation.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Next Tuesday April 4, 2006 2:15-3:45PM in Whoville (The storyboards are currently only available in PPT format. The wiki doesn't seem to want me to upload files right now :o( http://wiki.osafoundation.org/bin/view/Journal/StampingStoryboards
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Mimi Yin | 3 Apr 2006 21:02
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Re: Bad PowerPoint files

When the Attach functionality on the wiki is restored, I will be  
uploading PDF files.

Apologies for the inconvenience in the mean time.

Mimi

On Apr 3, 2006, at 6:19 AM, Marc Gibeault wrote:

> When viewed with MS PowerPoint 2003, some images seems to be  
> missing and the
> formatting is weird.
> -Marc
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> -
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:20:07 -0800
>> From: Mimi Yin <mimi <at> osafoundation.org>
>> Subject: [Design] Design Session 3 on Stamping
>> To: Chandler Design list <design <at> osafoundation.org>
>> Message-ID: <F0647090-E717-4E04-976F-A085231007C2 <at> osafoundation.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Next Tuesday April 4, 2006 2:15-3:45PM in Whoville
>>
>> (The storyboards are currently only available in PPT format.
>> The wiki doesn't seem to want me to upload files right now :o(
>>
>> http://wiki.osafoundation.org/bin/view/Journal/StampingStoryboards
>
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>
> Open Source Applications Foundation "Design" mailing list
> http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/design

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Sheila Mooney | 4 Apr 2006 03:21
Jim,

The spec you read was just for alpha 2 specifically, it doesn't yet  
include all the work we are doing in 0.7. You can certainly choose to  
sync collections individually but we haven't really talked about  
whether or not to be able to restrict synching to a particular type  
of item.

We are currently in the process of implementing a background sync  
which will allow you to continue to use the app while the sync is  
happening. Once we have had some time to try that out, we will decide  
what the next logical steps are for dealing with performance.

Sheila

On Mar 31, 2006, at 11:24 AM, Jim Sowers wrote:

> I did take a quick look at the spec before writing this, so I hope  
> I'm not out in left field.  But in the spirit of PPPPP (proper  
> preparation prevents poor performance) here goes:
>
> The syncing dialog right now is focused on collections in the  
> context of calendars.  However, collections will eventually contain  
> everything, verdad?  So, my question is: Will we have the ability  
> to sync a segment of a collection?  Let me describe why this is  
> important in my use case.
>
> Since I was part of the DOJ team that brought the first antitrust  
> lawsuit against Microsoft (in 1994!), I have been weaning myself  
> off of their apps (but not their OS).  But, I must admit, I think  
> Outlook is very good, and I miss the integration.
>
> Now I have my contacts stored on Yahoo! - 2738 of them!  Thus,  
> having a service that I know is backed up is important to me.  I  
> download and re-import into Thunderbird every once in a while, but  
> it's a pain.  I could see using Chandler as my new uber solution --  
> however, I'm concerned about sync time when it starts to include  
> email, calendar, contacts.  It might be good to be able to sync  
> only one aspect, or if that is unrealistic, to make sure that I can  
> access everything else whilst syncing is going on -- so that if  
> syncing takes a long time, I can still be looking up contacts,  
> emailing, etc. at the same time.
>
> As always, hope this was at least worth the time it took me to  
> write it :-)
>
> jim
>

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Priscilla Chung | 4 Apr 2006 04:22
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[D/F] - Chandler 0.6.1 March

Here is my notes on D/F-ing Chandler 0.6.1 for the month of March. I'll be sending D/F notes and updating my journal monthly. -Priscilla

For more details:

Here are some top issues I ran into this past four weeks:
+  Added more collections into my side bar. I have about 8 calendars (not including 'My calendar'. Performance issues is really starting test my patience. It's not just waiting for the beach ball. When I double click on the canvas just trying to add a simple event, it will take up to approximately 1 minute and 11 seconds, 67 split seconds.
    
+ Having clicked several times I click randomly all over the calendar canvas, sometimes ending up with 2 events. Due to the performance frustration, when clicking all over the canvas, the event rarely ends up on the exact time slot and will have to edit the exact time on the event details.

+ Always editing in the event details are sometimes a problem as there are times when I type in the wrong year, and then my event is lost. ie. I type in 1/1/2006 (as a end date for recurring events) and then have to find my event to fix my mistake.

+ Ran into errors when syncing my calendar at home. The cause was using my calendar as a test for sweeping my Chandler calendar into Scooby. Learned not to use my calendar for demoing for the staff meeting and recreated a demo calendar

+ Tried to use task list, and the performance/behavior issues are still too daunting for me to use.

+ Had to remove the repository again this month and re-subscribe to all my calendars/collections again! (There's got to be a better way then having to do this one by one!)

+ Tried to copy and paste an event, and the behavior was awkward, not consistent to my expectations as a user. See 3/21/06 --6:24 PM entry.

+ Learned how to send meeting invites. Having a bit of difficulty finding the 'send' button and/or when the meeting moves, a 'resend' button. (that of course does not exist…yet!) 
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Alec Flett | 4 Apr 2006 19:20
Jim Sowers wrote:
>
> The syncing dialog right now is focused on collections in the context 
> of calendars.  However, collections will eventually contain 
> everything, verdad?  So, my question is: Will we have the ability to 
> sync a segment of a collection?  Let me describe why this is important 
> in my use case.
>
I think there are two things to understand here:
1) Syncing is done on a per-collection basis, which means that the union 
of all of your collections will most likely contain all of your items... 
however you don't have to sync all of your collections, you can just 
pick and choose which ones go up on the server.
2) In the long term we'd like to have ways for the user to create 
rule-based collections which will often manifest themselves as 
"filtered" collections - i.e. one collection could be a subset of 
another collection. This is actually how the Mail/Tasks/Calendar buttons 
work in the toolbar - they filter selected collection in the sidebar so 
that you're only looking at items of a given type. Internally, we're 
creating a rule-based collection, based on the original collection 
selected in the sidebar

Finally, keep in mind that while all of your contacts may live in the 
'soup' of items that is the repository, they only have to be visible via 
certain collections. Rather than a classic app that segments items of 
each type into separate areas, your contacts don't have to live soley in 
a "Contacts" collection. Instead, they can exist in any of your 
collections along side mail messages, tasks, etc. e.g. in  "My Items", 
"Work" or what have you.

Alec
Alec

> Since I was part of the DOJ team that brought the first antitrust 
> lawsuit against Microsoft (in 1994!), I have been weaning myself off 
> of their apps (but not their OS).  But, I must admit, I think Outlook 
> is very good, and I miss the integration.
>
> Now I have my contacts stored on Yahoo! - 2738 of them!  Thus, having 
> a service that I know is backed up is important to me.  I download and 
> re-import into Thunderbird every once in a while, but it's a pain.  I 
> could see using Chandler as my new uber solution -- however, I'm 
> concerned about sync time when it starts to include email, calendar, 
> contacts.  It might be good to be able to sync only one aspect, or if 
> that is unrealistic, to make sure that I can access everything else 
> whilst syncing is going on -- so that if syncing takes a long time, I 
> can still be looking up contacts, emailing, etc. at the same time.
>
> As always, hope this was at least worth the time it took me to write 
> it :-)
>
> jim
>
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Matthew Eernisse | 4 Apr 2006 20:26
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[Scooby] Event types and lozenge shapes

We're trying to spec out features for Scooby 0.2. One of the features
involves ensuring that Chandler's various special event types (e.g.,
'at-time', 'any-time') are distinguishable in the Scooby UI.

Is the use of different lozenge shapes to indicate these different types
of events a fairly stable design that we should consider emulating in
Scooby, or is there a possibility that design will change in the future?

Any feedback would be apprciated.

Thanks.

Matthew

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Mimi Yin | 4 Apr 2006 22:43
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Re: [Scooby] Event types and lozenge shapes

Hi Matt,

I would say the lozenge shape design is not the ideal design for this  
feature, but it was the easiest design to implement. It is unlikely  
we will get around to doing anything fancier in the 0.7 timeframe. It  
is highly likely that this is the design that we will end up with in  
Chandler 1.0. Thats' the best I can do from the design perspective.

One small improvement we might consider doing for  <at> time events would  
be to add the  <at>  sign before the Event title in the lozenge.

So Talk to Esther  <at> 3PM would should up in a rounded lozenge as:  <at> Talk  
to Esther

Mimi

On Apr 4, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Matthew Eernisse wrote:

> We're trying to spec out features for Scooby 0.2. One of the features
> involves ensuring that Chandler's various special event types (e.g.,
> 'at-time', 'any-time') are distinguishable in the Scooby UI.
>
> Is the use of different lozenge shapes to indicate these different  
> types
> of events a fairly stable design that we should consider emulating in
> Scooby, or is there a possibility that design will change in the  
> future?
>
> Any feedback would be apprciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Matthew
>
>
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Gmane