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Tom Mueller | 1 May 2003 19:21
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basic query on parcel-writing

I am writing an article on Chandler, for the magazine Hemispheres, which
among other things will consider ways in which the Open Source community
will contribute to the evolution of the program once active collaboration
begins.

As part of the background work for this piece, I'd like to start writing a
parcel.  I am working on a Win98 machine, and my programming experience is
both limited and senescent, consisting of extensive Basic, Fortran and Cobol
ages ago, some fabulously complex many-hundred-line macros for Agenda, a few
VisualBasic riffs for Word.  Despite these obvious handicaps, however, I'm
willing to put considerable effort into the project.  If it turns out that
I've bitten off more than I can chew, this fact too will be instructive.

Could someone possibly help me with first steps -- namely, what programming
tools are necessary to write a parcel?  I've already downloaded and
installed Python.  What other packages/programs/languages will I need?  (The
semantic wobblyiness of this last question, I think, gives you an idea of
the level at which answers should be pitched.)  Is Visual Studio.net part of
the picture?  Is there a way to do this in a wholly Open Source manner,
without undue programming pain?

Also, all suggestions for websites and books to get me rolling in the right
direction would be most welcome.  I've already found a number of good Python
tutorials.

Many thanks,
Tom Mueller

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Jeff Mace | 6 May 2003 14:19
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email storage format

I was just reading through some of the docs on email in Chandler and
thought of something.  Will Chandler be able to use the pine format for
storing mailboxes?  I know people who are able to use the same
folders/mailboxes in different applications because of their standard
format and it would be nice if Chandler was another one.

This would be similar to using more than one calendar server to make up a
complete view of your calendar.  Those who elected to use the repository
for email storage could, but it could also be an option to link to these
pine format mailboxes.  Similarly, I should be able to tell Chandler to
monitor my /var/mail/≤userid> file for incoming messages.  This way, I
could easily use pine to read email from remote locations and switch to
Chandler when I'm able to use a full client.

Jeff Mace
Academic Services and Emerging Technologies (ASET)
Information Technology Services (ITS)
Pennsylvania State University
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Mitch Kapor | 6 May 2003 16:47
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Re: email storage format

Short answer: yes.  You will be able to keep your email on any IMAP server.

At 05:19 AM 5/6/2003, Jeff Mace wrote:
>I was just reading through some of the docs on email in Chandler and
>thought of something.  Will Chandler be able to use the pine format for
>storing mailboxes?  I know people who are able to use the same
>folders/mailboxes in different applications because of their standard
>format and it would be nice if Chandler was another one.
>
>This would be similar to using more than one calendar server to make up a
>complete view of your calendar.  Those who elected to use the repository
>for email storage could, but it could also be an option to link to these
>pine format mailboxes.  Similarly, I should be able to tell Chandler to
>monitor my /var/mail/≤userid> file for incoming messages.  This way, I
>could easily use pine to read email from remote locations and switch to
>Chandler when I'm able to use a full client.
>
>Jeff Mace
>Academic Services and Emerging Technologies (ASET)
>Information Technology Services (ITS)
>Pennsylvania State University

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Jeff Mace | 6 May 2003 17:33
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Re: email storage format

IMAP is different than reading pine format mailboxes.  When someone sends
me email it is immediately forwarded to my desktop machine and stored in a
local file for me to read.  I tend to keep pine open constantly so the
message will almost immediately show up in my inbox because pine is always
monitoring my mail spool.  In my case, and it's fairly common, I don't
retrieve mail using IMAP or POP and my other folders (i.e. sent-mail) are
stored locally.

What I am describing would essentially be another method for accessing
email (IMAP, POP or Local Mail Spool).  This isn't something I would call
very important, but I can think of situations where it would be helpful.

Jeff Mace
Academic Services and Emerging Technologies (ASET)
Information Technology Services (ITS)
Pennsylvania State University

On Tue, 6 May 2003, Mitch Kapor wrote:

> Short answer: yes.  You will be able to keep your email on any IMAP server.
>
> At 05:19 AM 5/6/2003, Jeff Mace wrote:
> >I was just reading through some of the docs on email in Chandler and
> >thought of something.  Will Chandler be able to use the pine format for
> >storing mailboxes?  I know people who are able to use the same
> >folders/mailboxes in different applications because of their standard
> >format and it would be nice if Chandler was another one.
> >
> >This would be similar to using more than one calendar server to make up a
> >complete view of your calendar.  Those who elected to use the repository
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Mitch Kapor | 6 May 2003 17:38
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Re: email storage format

Let me make sure I understand this use case.  It doesn't appear to be a 
common one.  How does the mail get from its origin to your desktop machine?

So far, we anticipate the local mail store will be the Chandler repository.

At 08:33 AM 5/6/2003, Jeff Mace wrote:
>IMAP is different than reading pine format mailboxes.  When someone sends
>me email it is immediately forwarded to my desktop machine and stored in a
>local file for me to read.  I tend to keep pine open constantly so the
>message will almost immediately show up in my inbox because pine is always
>monitoring my mail spool.  In my case, and it's fairly common, I don't
>retrieve mail using IMAP or POP and my other folders (i.e. sent-mail) are
>stored locally.
>
>What I am describing would essentially be another method for accessing
>email (IMAP, POP or Local Mail Spool).  This isn't something I would call
>very important, but I can think of situations where it would be helpful.
>
>Jeff Mace
>Academic Services and Emerging Technologies (ASET)
>Information Technology Services (ITS)
>Pennsylvania State University
>
>On Tue, 6 May 2003, Mitch Kapor wrote:
>
> > Short answer: yes.  You will be able to keep your email on any IMAP server.
> >
> > At 05:19 AM 5/6/2003, Jeff Mace wrote:
> > >I was just reading through some of the docs on email in Chandler and
> > >thought of something.  Will Chandler be able to use the pine format for
(Continue reading)

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Jeff Mace | 6 May 2003 17:50
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Re: email storage format

When the psu.edu mail server receives email it is processed by sendmail.
Sendmail goes through a process to determine what it should do with
my email, I have told it to forward any email for me (jhm18 <at> psu.edu) to my
local machine (this keeps me from having to actively retrieve it from a
server).  If I didn't tell sendmail to do anything special then I would be
able to use POP to retrieve my email.

It makes sense to have the Chandler repository be the main source, but
this would be like connecting to a calendar server to get other events.

Jeff Mace
Academic Services and Emerging Technologies (ASET)
Information Technology Services (ITS)
Pennsylvania State University

On Tue, 6 May 2003, Mitch Kapor wrote:

> Let me make sure I understand this use case.  It doesn't appear to be a
> common one.  How does the mail get from its origin to your desktop machine?
>
> So far, we anticipate the local mail store will be the Chandler repository.
>
> At 08:33 AM 5/6/2003, Jeff Mace wrote:
> >IMAP is different than reading pine format mailboxes.  When someone sends
> >me email it is immediately forwarded to my desktop machine and stored in a
> >local file for me to read.  I tend to keep pine open constantly so the
> >message will almost immediately show up in my inbox because pine is always
> >monitoring my mail spool.  In my case, and it's fairly common, I don't
> >retrieve mail using IMAP or POP and my other folders (i.e. sent-mail) are
> >stored locally.
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bkd | 6 May 2003 18:47
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Re: email storage format

--- Mitch Kapor <mitch <at> osafoundation.org> wrote:
> Let me make sure I understand this use case.  It

> So far, we anticipate the local mail store will be
> the Chandler repository.
> 
> At 08:33 AM 5/6/2003, Jeff Mace wrote:

> >IMAP is different than reading pine format
> mailboxes.  When someone sends
> >me email it is immediately forwarded to my desktop
> machine and stored in a
> >local file for me to read.  I tend to keep pine
> open constantly so the
> >message will almost immediately show up in my inbox
> because pine is always
> >monitoring my mail spool.  In my case, and it's
> fairly common, I don't
> >retrieve mail using IMAP or POP and my other
> folders (i.e. sent-mail) are
> >stored locally.
> >
> >What I am describing would essentially be another
> method for accessing
> >email (IMAP, POP or Local Mail Spool).  This isn't
> something I would call
> >very important, but I can think of situations where
> it would be helpful.

> > > At 05:19 AM 5/6/2003, Jeff Mace wrote:
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Michael Batchelor | 6 May 2003 19:13

Re: email storage format

Pine uses IMAP, local mbox, or local maildir formats.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Mace" <jhm18 <at> psu.edu>
To: "Mitch Kapor" <mitch <at> osafoundation.org>
Cc: <design <at> osafoundation.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Design] email storage format

> When the psu.edu mail server receives email it is processed by sendmail.
> Sendmail goes through a process to determine what it should do with
> my email, I have told it to forward any email for me (jhm18 <at> psu.edu) to my
> local machine (this keeps me from having to actively retrieve it from a
> server).  If I didn't tell sendmail to do anything special then I would be
> able to use POP to retrieve my email.
>
> It makes sense to have the Chandler repository be the main source, but
> this would be like connecting to a calendar server to get other events.
>
> Jeff Mace
> Academic Services and Emerging Technologies (ASET)
> Information Technology Services (ITS)
> Pennsylvania State University
>
> On Tue, 6 May 2003, Mitch Kapor wrote:
>
> > Let me make sure I understand this use case.  It doesn't appear to be a
> > common one.  How does the mail get from its origin to your desktop
machine?
> >
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Bill Seitz | 6 May 2003 19:58

anyone tried Chandler on Zaurus yet?

I'd be surprised if it's possible, but one can dream....

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Kaitlin Duck Sherwood | 6 May 2003 19:50
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Re: email storage format

Jeff Mace wrote:

>I was just reading through some of the docs on email in Chandler and
>thought of something.  Will Chandler be able to use the pine format for
>storing mailboxes?  I know people who are able to use the same
>folders/mailboxes in different applications because of their standard
>format and it would be nice if Chandler was another one.
>  
>
Hi, Jeff --

If I understand correctly, your desktop is a Unix machine.  Messages to 
jmace <at> psu.edu get forwarded to your desktop (which, for the purposes of 
this discussion, I'll declare is named jmace.psu.edu).  Jmace.psu.edu 
runs a Message Tranfer Agent like sendmail, which drops messages into 
/var/spool/jmace in mbox format.  When you are sitting in front of 
jmace.psu.edu, you want to use Chandler as your Message User Agent. 
 When you are vacationing in Maui, you want to ssh in to jmace.psu.edu 
and run pine over a shell.

If this is what you want, I suspect but can't promise that we won't 
support this in an absolutely seamless, stupid-easy way.  However, there 
are a few workarounds that I can see.

+ You could run an IMAP server on jmace.psu.edu and set Chandler to use 
jmace.psu.edu as its IMAP server.  This might feel clumsy and inelegant, 
but it would work.  It *probably* wouldn't even slow your system down 
much.  (Note: this would also let you run Chandler from Maui.)

+ You could run a POP server on jmace.psu.edu.  POP is more lightweight,
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