Grant Baillie | 30 Jan 00:15
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Re: Data model and Design documents of the Chandler application

Hi, Nitin

For high level aspects of the user interaction design, Mimi can  
probably help out. One source of information is the UI specifications  
that can be found here. These are the ones that touch on UI aspects of  
the data model:

http://svn.osafoundation.org/docs/trunk/docs/specs/rel0_7/Dashboard-0.7.html
http://svn.osafoundation.org/docs/trunk/docs/specs/rel0_7/Stamping-0.7.html
http://svn.osafoundation.org/docs/trunk/docs/specs/rel0_7/SummaryTable-0.7.html

On the code side, I'd start out with the high-level overview

http://svn.osafoundation.org/chandler/trunk/chandler/distrib/docs/overview.html

(in particular, the "Domain Model" and "Collections and Notifications"  
sections). For more detailed information, I'd go with notes from a  
couple of presentations made by developers:

http://chandlerproject.org/Journal/CollectionMeeting20060512
http://chandlerproject.org/Journal/ChandlerModelGrantForScooby

Also, to understand the schema API (which is what basically all  
persistent information in Chandler uses), see:

http://svn.osafoundation.org/chandler/trunk/chandler/distrib/docs/parcel-schema-guide.html

There's also more detailed information on how stamping is implemented  
here:

(Continue reading)

Grant Baillie | 25 Jan 19:48
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Re: Data model and Design documents of the Chandler application


On 24 Jan, 2008, at 21:44, Nitin Gupta wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I am new to Chandler application. I am interested in contributing  
> towards the development of this application as I am also working in  
> the domain of Online collaboration and PIM. This way I can also  
> learn more.
>
> I request the group to point me to the design documents for the  
> chandler application. More particularly, I am looking for the data  
> model of the application.

Hi, Nitin

I'd be happy to collect some links for you, but I'm not sure which of  
the following you meant:

1. The user interaction design of the data model
2. The design of the data model code in the desktop application
3. The design of the data model code in the web application

(actually, 3 could be either the javascript client side of the web  
app, or the java code running on the server, so I guess there's a 4th  
possiblity :o).

--Grant

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(Continue reading)

Nitin Gupta | 25 Jan 06:44
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Data model and Design documents of the Chandler application

Hi All,

 

I am new to Chandler application. I am interested in contributing towards the development of this application as I am also working in the domain of Online collaboration and PIM. This way I can also learn more.

 

I request the group to point me to the design documents for the chandler application. More particularly, I am looking for the data model of the application.

 

 

Best Regards,

Nitin Gupta

Srishti TechNet Pvt. Ltd.

B1/168, Paschim Vihar,

New Delhi – 110063

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( Tel: +91 11 45587193

Skype: nitin.gupta.183

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Katie Capps Parlante | 17 Jan 19:37
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[Chandler-dev] [Proposal] List consolidation

OSAF is now in in a phase of the project with a smaller staff and with a 
need to move quickly and be conservative with our resources. To be more 
focused, my goal is to work as *one* team during this phase, no longer 
thinking of ourselves as separate product, desktop, server, qa, and 
management teams.

We've ended all existing regular meetings, and now have one daily 
meeting with all 10 staff members. We're currently doing this on the 
phone while we get our footing, but may eventually transition to IRC.

I'd like to move our work back to the lists -- they've gone a bit quiet 
since the transition announcement.

At the daily meeting we discussed having fewer lists where we conduct 
daily work. Below is a proposal.

Goals:
- Integrate design and engineering discussions
- Use the same space for "chandler project" discussions, ranging from 
product schedule to design discussions to public strategy discussions
- Keep a separate space for people who are interested in the server but 
not the rest of the project
- Only maintain one list for "core" members to discuss strategy and 
organizational business, including relationships with individual people 
and organizations that might not be appropriate to be public. Note that 
this list would include project members who are not staff members. (As 
always, we want a path to that status for people who have never been 
staff members but grow their role into being key project contributors).

The Proposal:
- Change the charter of chandler-dev -- make this list into the 
"Chandler Project" list. Move work from design@ and general@ onto this 
list, and stop using design@ and general@. Move work from service-dev@ 
onto this list as well.
- Continue using cosmo-dev for largely technical conversations about the 
server. If the conversation is a "product" or "project" conversation, 
use chandler-dev instead.
- With the altered charter of chandler-dev, the desktop would not have a 
separate list. The supporting argument is that people who are interested 
in the desktop are likely interested in the whole project -- desktop 
plugins will likely want to sync on the server, etc. Cosmo (Chandler 
Server) is more likely to have a development community that is 
interested in the server for its own sake.
- I've made a similar consolidation proposal on the private lists.

Other osaf lists that would remain active and have the same charter:
announce
chandler-users
commits-cosmo
commits-l10n
commits-pyicu
commits-sandbox
commits-vobject
commits-zanshin
google-analytics-reports
pyicu-dev
pylucene-dev
windmill-commits
windmill-dev

Lists osaf is currently hosting but perhaps should move elsewhere? We'll 
work with Lisa if we ought to move them.
ietf-caldav
ietf-calsify
ietf-carddav
ietf-http-auth

Thoughts welcome. Please respond to the proposal by end-of-day Friday, 
on general@. Sooner is appreciated if you have strong objections or a 
counter proposal. Apologies for the cross-posting -- it is one of the 
things we're trying to avoid with the new proposal!

Cheers,
Katie
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Open Source Applications Foundation "chandler-dev" mailing list
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Mimi Yin | 16 Jan 00:44
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[Sum] The State of Sharing

Notes from brain dump session with Morgen:

There are 3 categories of Sharing issues:

1. Items are popping-to-NOW that shouldn't be

+ Under-the-hood attributes are changed: email 'from' field and other mail headers, icalUID

+ Email updates are interfering with sharing edits and registering as conflicts, even when they're not actually conflicts - https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11710

+ Server-side issues: Start-times were changing spontaneously - these are supposed to be fixed now.

+ Recurrence - related issues: Get the run down from Jeffrey
- I'm having trouble deleting recurring events, they keep coming back - https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11749

+ Events are tickling to NOW the morning of the event instead of at the start-time - https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11750

2. Keeping your desktop client and hub account in sync

+ Currently, we're able to automatically download your published collections
+ We still need to get syncing subscriptions working (uploading and downloading) - The Cosmo team has recently added a new API for this.
+ We also need a way to automatically publish all your collections so that people don't need to figure out how to add collections to their hub account mnually. Morgen thinks this would be relatively simple to implement.

I think we're losing users at this critical stage of the setup experience. So I imagine that this is one of the areas we'll tackle first.

Bugs:
+ Wizard for keeping Desktop + Hub in sync. - https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11594
+ Keep subscriptions in sync between Cosmo and Desktop - https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10983
+ Syncing published shares makes them all 'Not-Mine' - https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11717
+ Reconcile subscriptions with published collections - https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11732

3. Read-only security hole issues


+ The server needs to isolate each item within each collection
+ As a result, the server stores 1 copy of the item per collection

+ Downside: Web UI needs to figure out how to deal with multiple versions of the same item living in the same account in different collections.
- What if 1 version was edited more recently than the other? Which version do  users see? Especially when they have overlayed calendars?
- What if the web UI user edits 1 version of the item, does the edit automatically propagate to the other version?

+ How do we reconcile conflicting permissions? I have 1 item in 2 collections. I collection I subscribed to read-write, the other read-only. Which kind of access to I have to that item? This needs to be worked out on both web and desktop clients.

+ Currently, we're able to automatically download your published collections
+ We still need to get syncing subscriptions working (uploading and downloading) - The Cosmo team has recently added a new API for this.
+ We also need a way to automatically publish all your collections so that people don't need to figure out how to add collections to their hub account mnually. Morgen thinks this would be relatively simple to implement.

I think we're losing users at this critical stage of the setup experience. So I imagine that this is one of the areas we'll tackle first.

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Open Source Applications Foundation "Design" mailing list
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Mimi Yin | 14 Jan 23:15
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[Sum] The State of the Dashboard

Last Friday, I got a brain dump from Bryan Stearns re: the State of the Dashboard. Here are my notes from the meeting:

TRIAGE SORT ISSUES

1. It's easy to do explicit ordering

2. Also reasonable to auto-triage items without custom alarm or event-dates to a new and separate LATER: SOMEDAY MAYBE triage status section

3. A bunch of work to implement 'short-cut' for assigning Triage Status + Fuzzy Alarm date like: Later next week, Later this month, Later in March

4. Much harder to solve sub-sort by Date column issues for the LATER and DONE sections

WHO COLUMN ISSUES
1. Making sending email explicit

2. Default to displaying the TO: field if a message is either neither from/to you or both from/to you

3. It's relatively simple to grey out the Who and Date column values if they are cr/ed and last edited/sent on, respectively

4. There are some bugs re: recurring items having different addressing stamp values

Bryan is going to go through his buglist and flag anything he thinks would be simple to fix and/or things that are unclear from a design/behavior standpoint.

Mimi
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OSAF Transitions

OSAF and the Chandler project are going through some big transitions. 
Yesterday, January 7, we restructured the organization. This is the 
biggest change since the inception of project six and a half years ago.

In September 2007 we delivered a Preview release of Chandler Desktop, 
Chandler Server and the Chandler Hub web application. Since then we’ve 
been gradually acquiring users and building a community of people 
interested in the project. We now have hundreds of people participating 
in our users mailing list and thousands of users downloading Chandler 
and creating accounts on Chandler Hub.

Chandler is an open source, standards-based calendar and task manager 
built around small group collaboration and a core set of information 
management workflows modeled on Inbox usage patterns. Users manage and 
share calendars, tasks, messages, and notes with the Chandler Desktop 
application and with the Chandler Hub web application.

The next phase of the project is about growing the user base, building 
the community, and diversifying our funding sources. OSAF has been 
primarily funded by one person up to this point, Mitch Kapor. Our goal 
going forward is to modify our organization and our funding model to 
grow into a publicly supported community project, not propelled by one 
individual.

I will be leading the next phase of the project, and Mitch will be 
winding down his role on the project. Mitch will provide transitional 
financial assistance to support the organization through 2008. Mitch 
will step down from the board, and I will replace him.

OSAF will maintain a smaller staff during the next phase of the project. 
While figuring out the new funding model, it is prudent for the 
organization to reduce expenses. OSAF’s paid staff will go from 27 
people to 10 people. While I expect that most former staff members will 
move on to other endeavors, we certainly welcome them to remain involved 
with OSAF and Chandler in some capacity. Developers will retain commit 
privileges, for example.

Strategically, we find ourselves at a crossroads. The new Chandler team 
will continue to address the needs of informal groups sharing calendars 
and managing projects together. We’ve gotten a lot of great feedback 
from our current users, and intend to use that to fix usability problems 
and shape the next set of feature work. We have several options before 
us and will be ironing out a more focused plan for the next phase. We 
will keep everyone updated on this blog.

The Chandler team did a fantastic job shipping the Preview release. 
Building on this accomplishment, the project has many great 
possibilities ahead. While saddened to see such a great team come to an 
end, I’m excited about the project’s opportunities and looking forward 
to next chapter.

Katie
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Mimi Yin | 5 Jan 15:22
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Chandler as a Managed Workspace

I feel like we're getting stuck on the issue of defining next actions  
and lists of sub-tasks.

It just wasn't something I saw many people doing. And I don't think  
it's as simple as a lack of discipline. In other words, it's not  
necessarily a flaw to be corrected. Instead, I think people are  
lacking tools that help them DO the things they don't want to bother  
defining. It's a different way of thinking about the problem.

So the way I think of Chandler is that it creates an environment that  
provides people affordances for simply doing those next actions right  
in the app.

For example, if you have a project to pull together the next all- 
hands meeting, you could create an item to *represent* the project  
and define a series of tasks in the Notes field.

1. Set a date and put it on the calendar.
2. Brainstorm re: agenda
3. Collect input from others re: agenda
4. Figure out who needs to come
5. Send out invitation

But, do these things need to happen in order? Should you only work on  
these one at a time? Instead of creating 5 tasks and tracking them  
all, why not just have a single event item that represents the  
meeting and simply DO (on that meeting item) what needs to be done to  
set up this meeting?

An alternate way to approach the workflow would be to create an item  
in Chandler that *is* the project and then work directly in the item,  
treating it as a (shared) workspace for that project.

+ Create an event: Next all-hands
+ Put it on the calendar as an anytime event over the span of a week  
while you narrow in on the date.
+ When you've figured out a date, you define the event time.
+ To help you figure out the date, you could email the event or share  
it with key stakeholders and ask each person to list out times they  
can't make it and any other constraints they have.
+ To brainstorm re: agenda you can just jot down ideas right in the  
Notes field of the agenda. Your brainstorm will slowly evolve into  
the actual agenda you send out.
+ To collect input from others, you can email or share it with key  
stakeholders and ask them to add their own ideas to the list.
+ To send the invitation, you address it and send it out via email.
+ But even sending out the invitation isn't necessarily the last step  
because you or others could think of more things to add to the agenda  
and end up sending out a subsequent update to the invite.

All of this currently is being done with text files and lots of  
email. What Chandler offers is a 'source of truth' a single place  
where everyone can work together. It's where I was going with the  
idea that Chandler isn't so much a task manager (where tasks are  
abstractions of the work you need to do) as a work manager, or  
'managed work space' really.

The reason why we can offer this is because we're more than just a  
simple list / outliner and because we have sharing and email. If  
there's just a list, all you can do is list out the work you need to  
do because there isn't really room to spread out and do your work.

If there's an integrated calendar and email and sharing and a lot of  
real estate allotted to the details of each of the items in the list,  
you start to have a multi-dimensional work space.

Mimi
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Adam Christian | 28 Dec 23:57
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Cosmo List/Cal View

Getting my family using Cosmo this holiday season, I realized that  
after having multiple people login to use the app I had to tell each  
of them how to get to the Calendar view. The button is apparently  
either too small or lacking clarity or something.

I think that along with making these different modes exponentially  
more obvious we should also allow you to set which one you would like  
to view when you login. When you login to the app for the very first  
time you should probably be given some welcome dialog or something  
that gives you a small overview of whats available etc.

Adam
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Andre Mueninghoff | 19 Dec 18:11
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Auto Restore of Shares streamlines reordering collections

Sending to Design, because I'm not certain what's in 0.7.3, but I wanted
to mention that the new dialog and workflow for restoring published
shares wonderfully streamlines the reordering of collections in the
sidebar of the Desktop. Assuming one has published to Hub all
collections of interest, one can restore the collections one or more at
a time, and Desktop will add them to the sidebar in the order in which
they are listed in the Restore dialog. As necessary for precise
ordering, restore shares one at a time. Very helpful, very easy.
Something for the release notes perhaps?

Enjoy, Andre
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Mimi Yin | 18 Dec 23:53
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What's the 'pony in the product'?

Last week I wrote to the design list that we needed an articulation of 'the pony in the product': http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/design/2007-December/008115.html

Basically, it's back to the good ole elevator pitch. What's the problem we're trying to solve and how are we solving it and why do we think it's better than the competition.

We had some good guesses when we launched Preview, but it's taken really using the app for the last few months for some of us to really 'get it'. 

Here's a first pass at trying to articulate the pony. My hope is that this will help us formulate a crisp pitch that is compelling to our target audience. As I said in a past last email, I think part of the problem is that as product-builders, we have a clinical understanding of the problem that emphasizes how we *solve* the problem, rather than the symptoms of the problem itself. Users on the other hand, understand the symptoms. "Items in multiple collections" isn't compelling unless it is presented as a solution to a problem people can relate to. So here is an attempt to present Chandler and what it does in the context of problems people can relate to.

CAVEAT: This is not intended to be landing page copy. This is simply an articulation of what Chandler is, so that we're all on the same page about what needs to be expressed in demos and other marketing material. Unfortunately, my pony turned into a horse, so suggestions about how to make this more succinct would be helpful.

NOTE: A number of the concepts discussed below are our interpretation of "the spirit of GTD". I think it'd be worth identifying what they are so that we can talk about it clearly and consistently. (e.g. Don't over-organize. Don't over-plan. Make sure you allow yourself to do a free-form dump so you get everything out of your head.)

Mimi

=====

THE PROBLEM
You get bits of information from emails, more emails, IM chats, hallway conversations, post-it notes left on your desk, more email. At the end of the day, where's the source of truth? Where exactly are we having dinner? at what time? What are we supposed to bring? What's the agenda for the meeting exactly? Where's the final packing list? Not only do you need a 'source of truth' for yourself, you need it for all the different groups of people you coordinate, work, live, need to get through life with.

So you need a *trusted* system that can be your personal *source of truth*. The groups you work with need a *trusted* system that can be their *shared source of truth*. There are lots out there...why can't people seem to stick to any?

I - THE PROBLEM WITH TASK MANAGERS TODAY: STRUCTURE GETS IN THE WAY

To wrap their head around what they have to do, people always start out by making a list/outline of all their projects and all their tasks. This 'structure it in order to get a grip on it' approach to task management has its deficits:

1. The structure itself locks out possibilities that don't fit into that structure. Have something random you need to follow up on that doesn't fit into your structure? Doesn't get written down. That's trivial, petty, you think to yourself. Besides, I don't know where I'd put it in this outline. I'll just keep track of it in my head.

2. As soon as new information comes to light, your outline gets out of date as you struggle to fit today's information into yesterday's list.

3. Lists and outlines don't allow you to focus on *just the stuff you need to attend to NOW*. Instead you see everything that's not-done, and a lot of it is stuff you're only hypothesizing you'll need to do.

4. Lists and outlines don't scale to hold and keep track of the disconnected ideas and thoughts you have that eventually coalesce into the 'work' you need to do. So even if you have a way to manage your *tasks* (aka *list of stuff you need to do*), you still have nowhere to store and manage all the stuff that constitutes the *substance* of those tasks. In that sense, task management seems like a lot of 'meta-work', busywork that doesn't actually help you manage the work you're actually doing.

5. Lists and outlines presume that you do things in a given order. First I will do this, then I will do that. In reality, we noodle on lots of things, all the time, at the *same* time. Coming up with ideas and questions, remembering one more thing to add to that list, spouting fully formed introductory paragraphs to the dreaded year-end summary, scheduling a meeting, coming up with an agenda for that meeting, writing meeting notes for last week's meeting...

CHANDLER'S SOLUTION

1. Chandler doesn't start with a project outline. Chandler starts out with a dumping ground for *stuff*.
Dump everything out of your head into Chandler no matter how poorly thought through, trivial or seemingly irrelevant. Don't worry about what it is, when it needs to get done by, or what project it pertains to. Don't worry about where it belongs. It doesn't need to be a task or a meeting. Random thoughts are welcome. Anything that's taking up space in your head is welcome. Chandler isn't so much a task manager or a calendar as a mental *stuff* manager that helps you turn *stuff* into concrete, actionable, useful things like tasks, events, lists and messages.

2. Chandler takes a don't over-organize, iterative approach to organization.
Once you've gotten past the 'dumping' stage, Chandler helps you work your way through the pile with some out-of the box organizational affordances that help you process and make progress on the things you need to do bit-by-bit. 

Chandler's organizational affordances are lightweight: (*)
+ Decide whether you want to deal with something NOW or LATER.
+ Create collections of items
+ Add items to Task lists and Calendars
+ Assign alarms

Also, don't worry about regretting tomorrow how you chose to organize stuff today. Organization in Chandler is flexible so it never grows stale. Structure is 'additive' in Chandler so that there's never any 'opportunity cost' to organizing your data in a particular way.
- Creating an event on my 'Family' calendar shouldn't preclude me from seeing it in my 'Personal' calendar. 
- Tracking milestones on your calendar shouldn't preclude you from tracking them on your Task list as well.

(*) Eventually, we would like to support more sophisticated organizational tools because sometimes, you just need to be that organized:
+ Clusters: A way to thread items together
+ Tags and user-defined attributes
+ Smart, user-defined views

However, this functionality will be added in a way that is in keeping with Chandler's minimalist and flexible approach.

3. Chandler distinguishes between Not-Done and Needs to be Done so that you can focus on what you need to deal with NOW without losing track of the stuff you eventually need to deal with LATER. You can assign alarms and/or add items to the calendar and they will automatically pop back into NOW. It's kind of like being able to time when you receive a reminder email from yourself.

4. Chandler isn't just for keeping track of what you need to do. It's for *doing* what you need to do. In this way, Chandler isn't so much a 'task manager' as a 'work manager'. Unlike lists and outlines, each task you enter into Chandler is a discrete information item with it's own notes field. So your task item to 'Collect quotes for the presentation' *becomes* the list of quotes itself as you collect them in the Notes field over time. (This idea isn't easily discernible today. Adding support for a Document or Resource Kind would help highlight this aspect of Chandler.)

5. Chandler presumes that you're working on multiple things *at the same time, all of the time*. Chandler isn't about listing out the order in which you're going to do things and then automatically telling you what you need to do next because the reality is, even the best laid plans are laid to waste by the constant stream of 'new information' we receive. Instead, you pick at-will what you want / need / can't help but focus on right NOW and work on them simultaneously.

II - THE PROBLEM WITH COLLABORATION TOOLS TODAY: WHETHER IT'S A WIKI OR SHAREPOINT, COLLABORATION TOOLS ARE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH PERSONAL TASK MANAGEMENT TOOLS. (WHICH IS WHY EMAIL IS STILL THE INFORMATION MANAGER OF CHOICE, IT'S THE ONE SOLUTION THAT INTEGRATES THE TWO)

Now Chandler integrates personal and shared information manager too! 
+ You have equal access to personal *and* shared information in a single application.
+ The same notes, tasks and events can appear in both shared and personal collections so your personal 'source of truth' stays in sync with the 'group's source of truth'.

III - THE PROBLEM WITH A LOT OF SOFTWARE TOOLS IS THAT THEY'RE NOT AVAILABLE / ACCESSIBLE FROM EVERYWHERE
+ Chandler is cross-platform: Windows, Linux and Mac. Install it at home and at work. Collaborate with others even if they're on a different operating system.
+ You don't need everybody in your group to use Chandler to enable collaboration. Send others to view and edit shared collections in the web browser instead. They don't even need to sign up for an account.
+ Chandler allows you to access your own data via the web browser.
+ Chandler doesn't assume that everyone you need to work with can or will use Chandler, which is why you can also collaborate on notes, tasks and events via email.

+ Chandler is working on ways to get data onto mobile devices.

===

Elevator pitch: Stuff manager for organized chaos? Work manager for organized chaos? Project information manager for organized chaos? Task manager for organized chaos?

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Gmane