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Dave Gale @ storm | 1 Feb 2008 07:49
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FW: [Valentine Spa Specials]


OK... Members of the jury... What do *you* think?

Is she lying through her teeth?
Did she buy a database?
Has some virus attacked her PC and done some online marketing for her?
Is she a drone for some scuzzball?

DaveG

-----Original Message-----
Subject: [Fwd: RE: Valentine Spa Specials]

Please let me know if you unsubscribed from the newsletter as I cannot find
you on my database now. It would help in my search to ensure that you NEVER
EVEREREERERERER get another e-mail from me again. 
Regards

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave [mailto:dave@...]
Sent: 31 January 2008 05:54 PM
To: Life&Soul- PR & Marketing; dave@...
Subject: Re: Valentine Spa Specials

Life&Soul- PR & Marketing wrote:
>
> Sincerest apologies, you must have subscribed to my newsletter 
> database at some stage: either life and soul or wellness guide or even

> the Ginkgo Mailing list.
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Graham Beneke | 1 Feb 2008 08:09
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Re: FW: [Valentine Spa Specials]

Dave Gale  <at>  storm wrote:
> OK... Members of the jury... What do *you* think?
> 
> Is she lying through her teeth?
> Did she buy a database?
> Has some virus attacked her PC and done some online marketing for her?
> Is she a drone for some scuzzball?
> 
> DaveG
>  

Many people do not have enough technical knowledge to challenge the 
tales these characters spin. To most people computers and the internet 
are this huge mysterious 'black box' that has a mind of its own.

We all know that computers only do what we tell them to do and anyone 
who thinks otherwise is not any less liable for the actions of the 
computers under their command.

GUILTY

At the very least of ignorance.

--

-- 
Graham Beneke
Apolix Internet Services
E-Mail/MSN/Jabber: graham@...   Skype: grbeneke
VoIP: 087-750-5696                       Cell: 082-432-1873
http://www.apolix.co.za/
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Bretton Vine | 1 Feb 2008 08:47

Re: FW: [Valentine Spa Specials]

On 01 Feb 2008, at 9:09 AM, Graham Beneke wrote:
> Many people do not have enough technical knowledge to challenge the
> tales these characters spin. To most people computers and the internet
> are this huge mysterious 'black box' that has a mind of its own.

In my experience even the technically proficient (or at least  
enthusiastic) can be fooled. There is a crowd which is selling an  
address list along with a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo about how legit  
their operation is, along with what seem like template replies should  
anyone complain about spam.

It's a professional package. Without paying an independent lawyer to  
verify the legalese, it sounds pretty legit. It doesn't seem to come  
cheap either, although I'm not clear on the details there as I wasn't  
told exactly how much it cost. But it was large enough that the  
individual concerned was willing to put up a fight, not out of  
ignorance as such, but in the belief they'd been sold a perfectly  
legitimate service and I was just being an BOFH.

Marketing and advertising don't see what they do in quite the same way  
as people who receive the content. They have a mandate to sell a  
product or service, and anything that offers an edge seems attractive.  
A 'legal' way to market your business to millions of addresses, with a  
template reply should anyone give you grief. Looks damn good to the  
man in the street, even one aware of spam.

> At the very least of ignorance.

How would you educate someone in this case?
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Des Ramsay | 1 Feb 2008 08:46
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Re: FW: [Valentine Spa Specials]

Guilty as charged - either due to:

Acting sweet and innocent, but knowing that the offence was committed
Ignorance of the law

-----Original Message-----
From: ioz-bounces@...
[mailto:ioz-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Dave Gale  <at> 
storm
Sent: 01 February 2008 08:49 AM
To: ioz@...
Subject: [IOZ] FW: [Valentine Spa Specials]

OK... Members of the jury... What do *you* think?

Is she lying through her teeth?
Did she buy a database?
Has some virus attacked her PC and done some online marketing for her?
Is she a drone for some scuzzball?

DaveG

-----Original Message-----
Subject: [Fwd: RE: Valentine Spa Specials]

Please let me know if you unsubscribed from the newsletter as I cannot find
you on my database now. It would help in my search to ensure that you NEVER
EVEREREERERERER get another e-mail from me again. 
Regards
(Continue reading)

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Samantha Perry | 1 Feb 2008 11:02
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Re: FW: [Valentine Spa Specials]


Dave Gale  <at>  storm wrote:
> OK... Members of the jury... What do *you* think?
> 
> Is she lying through her teeth?
> Did she buy a database?
> Has some virus attacked her PC and done some online marketing for her?
> Is she a drone for some scuzzball?
> 

Guilty no doubt of being some pretty poppie, who's been given a database 
and a mailer, and told to send it out, with no idea of what she's doing, 
or where said database came from. *sigh*

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Tiaan van Aardt | 1 Feb 2008 11:17
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Re: FW: [Valentine Spa Specials]

Hi,

> Guilty no doubt of being some pretty poppie, who's been given 
> a database and a mailer, and told to send it out, with no
> idea of what she's doing, or where said database came from.
> *sigh*

Maybe that's the whole plan of the _real_ spammer; plausible
deniability :-)

Tiaan.
_____________________________________________________
TruTeq Wireless (Pty) Ltd.        Tel +27 12 667 1530
http://www.truteq.com             Fax +27 12 667 1531
Wireless communications for remote machine management

Never say "whoops!", always say "Ah, Interesting!"

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Samantha Perry | 1 Feb 2008 11:31
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Re: FW: [Valentine Spa Specials]


Tiaan van Aardt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>> Guilty no doubt of being some pretty poppie, who's been given 
>> a database and a mailer, and told to send it out, with no
>> idea of what she's doing, or where said database came from.
>> *sigh*
> 
> Maybe that's the whole plan of the _real_ spammer; plausible
> deniability :-)
> 

Probably... This is the third of this type of spam I've seen this week. 
Two arrived in my inbox. I've had no reply to cease and desist requests, 
because, I expect, the individuals concerned haven't got a clue that 
they've done anything wrong.

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Mike Morris | 1 Feb 2008 14:04
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Re: Fixing legislation (was Dynamic Seminars...)

Bretton Vine wrote:

> Remember (and I'm not defending spammers) many first-time offenders  
> have just purchased a list from somewhere, thinking they've discovered  
> this killer internet marketing idea.

I'm pretty sure that Brian Jude does not fall into that class of spammers.

> What ideas would be good for educating general South Africa Internet  
> users about spam, buying lists of addresses, and reporting spam?

I floated a similar question on a anti-spam mailing list some (6? 8?) 
months ago; it was answered with deafening silence.  Seems nobody is 
interested in a constructive approach.

> How do ISPs approach educating  
> their customers?

Then, too, there are some ISPs who seem in need of education themselves.

--

-- 
mike morris :: mikro2nd (at) gmail (dot) com

http://mikro2nd.net/
http://mikro2nd.net/blog/planb/
http://mikro2nd.net/blog/mike/

-- A day without chillies is a day wasted --

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Alan Levin | 1 Feb 2008 15:18
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Re: Dynamic Seminars...

Hi,

Sorry about my tardy comment on this...

On 30 Jan 2008, at 4:58 PM, Colin Alston wrote:
>> Does ISOC-ZA still have that nifty little bounty running?
> Yes, the funds are as of yet unclaimed :)

True true.....

I have unrefutable evidence of Mervyn Khans spam (wrt the ECT law)  
but Brian Jude seems more shrewd.  He sends to more email addresses  
on our mail server than Mervyn does, but he seems to be much more  
vigilant about removing those who have requested to be removed. It is  
very evident that he sends spam - and profits greatly from it - but  
he will be MUCH more difficult to prosecute ito the SA law. This is  
an excellent example of where the law is unsatisfactory as is.

So wrt Brian Jude. I've spoken to him (and his IT guy) and begged  
them to be more responsible and he really doesn't care. I explained  
that constantly sending to clear email list addresses like  
announce@... is a waste of everyones time and money and he  
explained to me that going through the lists is not viable for him.  
It's very frustrating.

I'm really not sure how we can address this. Maybe if we help him  
publicise himself as the biggest spammer in SA he will grow his  
business big enough (from even more fame) that he won't need to spam  
anymore.  Maybe if you speak to him you can be more persuasive than  
me. Maybe if we all send him faxes and letter to ask him to
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Liam Smit | 1 Feb 2008 15:30
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Re: Dynamic Seminars...

Hi Alan

> I have unrefutable evidence of Mervyn Khans spam (wrt the ECT law)
> but Brian Jude seems more shrewd.  He sends to more email addresses
> on our mail server than Mervyn does, but he seems to be much more
> vigilant about removing those who have requested to be removed. It is
> very evident that he sends spam - and profits greatly from it - but
> he will be MUCH more difficult to prosecute ito the SA law. This is
> an excellent example of where the law is unsatisfactory as is.
>
> So wrt Brian Jude. I've spoken to him (and his IT guy) and begged
> them to be more responsible and he really doesn't care. I explained
> that constantly sending to clear email list addresses like
> announce@... is a waste of everyones time and money and he
> explained to me that going through the lists is not viable for him.
> It's very frustrating.
>
> I'm really not sure how we can address this. Maybe if we help him
> publicise himself as the biggest spammer in SA he will grow his
> business big enough (from even more fame) that he won't need to spam
> anymore.  Maybe if you speak to him you can be more persuasive than
> me. Maybe if we all send him faxes and letter to ask him to
> unsubscribe us and all our customers then it will work. (what do you
> think about doing this as an ISP? rather than blocking, catching and
> bulk unsubscribing and then following up with checks?)

Ask SARS if his taxes are up to date?

Regards,
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