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Roland Giesler | 6 Apr 2005 15:39
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OT: Any Linux iBurst users?

Sorry for the OT post... I really need some help here.

Anyone, pls contact me off list if you can help me config my PPPoE on
Mandrake to connect bia iBurst UT-D ethernet device...

thanks

Roland

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Artslink.co.za | 6 Apr 2005 15:53
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Re: OT: Any Linux iBurst users?

Any ISPs here with schools that are receiving e-rate from Telkom - How to do
for schools with Telkom that says it's not available (yet)?

:-)

TJ

Artslink.co.za News
www.artslink.co.za
Artslink.co.za ISP
082 230 CALL
082 230 2255

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roland Giesler" <roland@...>
To: <ioz@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:39 PM
Subject: [IOZ] OT: Any Linux iBurst users?

> Sorry for the OT post... I really need some help here.
>
> Anyone, pls contact me off list if you can help me config my PPPoE on
> Mandrake to connect bia iBurst UT-D ethernet device...
>
> thanks
>
> Roland
>
>
>
(Continue reading)

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Ivo Vegter | 6 Apr 2005 16:32
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Re: e-rate (was: OT: Any Linux iBurst users?)

Artslink.co.za wrote:
> Any ISPs here with schools that are receiving e-rate from Telkom - How to do
> for schools with Telkom that says it's not available (yet)?

As far as I understand, Telkom *must* provide e-rate since 1 February. 
This is a legal requirement, under the Telecoms Amendment Act of 2001, 
read in conjunction with the Ministerial Determination gazetted on 3 
September 2004. I.e. it's the law.

If it's "not available", which is a nonsense claim anyway, they'll just 
have to halve your invoice by hand.

Of course, Telkom might just wait for schools to get the courts to force 
it to comply, figuring that if they can't afford Internet access, they 
can't afford lawyers either...

Perhaps send a letter kindly requesting Telkom to deputise one of its 
fleet of attorneys to act on your behalf, in the interest of corporate 
social responsibility ;^)

--

-- 
Ivo Vegter <ivo@...> +27-84-210-2003
Cerberus Editing & Consulting

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Ramon Thomas | 6 Apr 2005 17:43
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E-rate for Schools

I would like to see the Internet Society fighting this on behalf of all
South Africans. We (ISOC-ZA) could in fact partner with ISPA + Gauteng
Online + SchoolNet + to get a move on this. For me this would be a very
useful thing for ISOC to do.

Regards
Ramon
-
Ramon Thomas, ISOC-ZA Joburg Chairperson
Internet Society of South Africa (ISOC-ZA)
Cell. 0829407137

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ioz@...
[mailto:owner-ioz@...] On Behalf
Of Ivo Vegter
Sent: 06 April 2005 04:32 PM
To: ioz@...
Subject: Re: [IOZ] e-rate (was: OT: Any Linux iBurst users?)

Artslink.co.za wrote:
> Any ISPs here with schools that are receiving e-rate from Telkom - How 
> to do for schools with Telkom that says it's not available (yet)?

As far as I understand, Telkom *must* provide e-rate since 1 February. 
This is a legal requirement, under the Telecoms Amendment Act of 2001, 
read in conjunction with the Ministerial Determination gazetted on 3 
September 2004. I.e. it's the law.

If it's "not available", which is a nonsense claim anyway, they'll just
(Continue reading)

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Ingrid Brandt | 6 Apr 2005 23:23
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Re: e-rate (was: OT: Any Linux iBurst users?)

On Wed 2005-04-06 (16:32), Ivo Vegter wrote:
> Artslink.co.za wrote:
> >Any ISPs here with schools that are receiving e-rate from Telkom - How to 
> >do
> >for schools with Telkom that says it's not available (yet)?
> 
> As far as I understand, Telkom *must* provide e-rate since 1 February. 
> This is a legal requirement, under the Telecoms Amendment Act of 2001, 
> read in conjunction with the Ministerial Determination gazetted on 3 
> September 2004. I.e. it's the law.

On the 3rd of Feb this year, some members of Telkom's commercial arm came to
Rhodes to give a series of presentations - this is slightly different as in
the CS dept we often deal with the research arm instead.  Anyway, one of
their presentations was entitled "Telkom's view of the ICT announcements by
Minister of Communications" in which they said that the only Ministerial
determinations (announced on the 3rd Sept 2004) that they would accept are
the ones that she clarified on the 31st of Jan.  And as such they would not
be giving schools the e-rate as the Minister had not clarified it and they
reckoned that they could do this legally.

Now I don't know if this guy had got the story wrong but from what I can
tell from the schools that I work with they are not complying with the
e-rate.

Has anyone else heard this line of argument from Telkom? Namely that they
need not comply with the other determinations until the Minister clarifies
them. Or could some here shed some light on this line of argument - how the
logic works? It baffles me.
(Continue reading)

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Roland Giesler | 7 Apr 2005 10:25
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RE: E-rate for Schools

Ramon wrote:
> I would like to see the Internet Society fighting this on 
> behalf of all South Africans. We (ISOC-ZA) could in fact 
> partner with ISPA + Gauteng Online + SchoolNet + to get a 
> move on this. For me this would be a very useful thing for ISOC to do.

I understood at one stage that the Departement of Education (or some other
government dept) were going to refund the 50% discount to either the ISP or
the school.  If the event that it's the ISP, I guess the solution would be
to simply bill the DoE or minister of education for the 50% of all actual
provision to schools since 1 Feb 2005.  In the event that the schools claim,
they would simply provide submit their invoices from their ISP to the DoE
and claim the 50% refund.

I very much doubt that the minister, or anybody for that matter, has the
jurisdiction to dictate to ISP's that they must provide a 50% discounted
product to schools when all except Telkom, are nowhere close to even a 50%
margin, let alone a 100% markup!

What should be lobbied for though, over and above simple implementation of
the legislation, is reduced internet access AND traffic.  From Kader Asmal's
comments in speeches it appeared that his intention was to "... expect to
see reduced call charges, the so-called "e rate", for our schools."
(http://education.pwv.gov.za/Media/Speeches_2001/Nov01/ict.htm).  Although
that was a long time ago, on 1 March 2005, Naledi Pandor said: "In
collaboration with the Department of Communication and the Independent
Communications Association of South Africa (ICASA), we have agreed to
introduce a 50% discount on *internet connection* (my emphasis) costs. This
new e-rate will be published shortly in the government gazette."
(Continue reading)

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Ivo Vegter | 7 Apr 2005 12:58
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Re: e-rate

Ingrid Brandt wrote:

> On the 3rd of Feb this year, some members of Telkom's commercial arm came to
> Rhodes to give a series of presentations - this is slightly different as in
> the CS dept we often deal with the research arm instead.  Anyway, one of
> their presentations was entitled "Telkom's view of the ICT announcements by
> Minister of Communications" in which they said that the only Ministerial
> determinations (announced on the 3rd Sept 2004) that they would accept are
> the ones that she clarified on the 31st of Jan.  And as such they would not
> be giving schools the e-rate as the Minister had not clarified it and they
> reckoned that they could do this legally.
> 
> Now I don't know if this guy had got the story wrong but from what I can
> tell from the schools that I work with they are not complying with the
> e-rate.
> 
> Has anyone else heard this line of argument from Telkom? Namely that they
> need not comply with the other determinations until the Minister clarifies
> them. Or could some here shed some light on this line of argument - how the
> logic works? It baffles me.

It is baffling indeed. Only one of the five determinations (on 
self-provision by VANS) *needed* a clarification, since the Minister's 
apparent intent and the interpretation by both ICASA and the industry 
differed.

The rest certainly stand as originally stated, and there's a strong 
argument to say that the Minister's intent is pretty irrelevant compared 
to what the gazetted determination states in the self-provisioning case, 
so the last-minute clarification has no standing in law.
(Continue reading)

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Ant Brooks | 7 Apr 2005 15:27
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Re: E-rate for Schools

Ramon Thomas wrote:
> I would like to see the Internet Society fighting this on behalf of all
> South Africans. We (ISOC-ZA) could in fact partner with ISPA + Gauteng
> Online + SchoolNet + to get a move on this. For me this would be a very
> useful thing for ISOC to do.

My understanding is that the Department of Communications will be
releasing regulations governing the E-Rate for comment shortly[1].

Ant.

[1] Where "shortly" doesn't necessarily have the meaning most
people would like it to have :-/

--

-- 
Crieff (vb.): To agree sycophantically with a taxi-driver about
  immigration.

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Keith Waters | 7 Apr 2005 19:32
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TICSA

Hi All -

I was wondering whether

1) The name (or trademark) TICSA still belongs to or is being used by 
anybody?  (Possibly UUNET SA?)

and, if the answer is "no",

2) Whether the founders of TICSA (who I am sure are mostly on this list) 
would mind me trading with this name?

Thanks!

Regards,
Keith 

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Graham Leggett | 8 Apr 2005 01:04

Re: e-rate

Ingrid Brandt wrote:

> Has anyone else heard this line of argument from Telkom? Namely that they
> need not comply with the other determinations until the Minister clarifies
> them. Or could some here shed some light on this line of argument - how the
> logic works? It baffles me.

Having read and reread the Telecoms Act of 1996 (as amended), I can find 
no provisions in the act for the Minister to do anything other than set 
a date from which parts of the Telecoms Act are switched off. There is 
nothing to be "clarified", a date was either set or it wasn't.

There is nothing in the Telecoms Act of 1996 concerning procedures that 
allow the Minister to chainge her mind and reverse her decision. 
According to the letter of the law, once the date is set, it is set.

Telkom have shown no regard to telecoms law in the past. It is unlikely 
they will start doing so any time soon, interpreting the law as is most 
convenient for them.

Regards,
Graham
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