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NM Public | 18 Aug 2006 12:13
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Understanding Pine incoming-folders and incoming-archive-folders

Beartooth and I are in the midst of setting up his system so he 
can 1) use Pine to access multiple IMAP accounts and 2) run Pine 
on multiple computers. My goal is to *not* simply walk him 
through setting this all up. Instead I want him to understand 
what's going on (and I think that's what Beartooth wants too). 
Before we can continue, there are three things that are 
essential to understand:

   * Pine's primary collection
   * Pine's Incoming-Folders collection
   * Pine's incoming-archive-folders variable

I've updated my Power Pine page to try to make these clear, but 
I am sure that what I've written can be improved. Please read 
the following sections of my Power Pine page and post any 
questions or comments you have about this. I know it is 
confusing!

   Pine's primary collection
   <http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/pc/#collectionTips>

The first bullet in this "Collection Tips" section discusses the 
Pine "primary folder collection". Understanding this will, I 
hope, help you to understand some of the problems you 
(Beartooth) are having with your incoming-archive-folders.

  Using the Incoming-Folders Collection (aka Pine Shortcuts)
  <http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/pc/#recentIF>

I've rewritten a lot of this section to try to make Pine
(Continue reading)

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Beartooth | 18 Aug 2006 19:25
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Re: Understanding Pine incoming-folders and incoming-archive-folders

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:13:40 +0100, NM Public wrote:

> Beartooth and I are in the midst of setting up his system so he 
> can 1) use Pine to access multiple IMAP accounts and 2) run Pine 
> on multiple computers. My goal is to *not* simply walk him 
> through setting this all up. Instead I want him to understand 
> what's going on (and I think that's what Beartooth wants too).

Yes, definitely; as far back as I can remember, I've always had an
awful time trying to do anything I didn't understand. But there are levels
of understanding, and only so much time. I certainly need more
understanding than I've got now, though. 

> Before we can continue, there are three things that are essential to
> understand:
> 
>    * Pine's primary collection
>    * Pine's Incoming-Folders collection
>    * Pine's incoming-archive-folders variable
> 
> I've updated my Power Pine page to try to make these clear, but I am
> sure that what I've written can be improved. Please read the following
> sections of my Power Pine page and post any questions or comments you
> have about this. I know it is confusing!

Confusing is precisely the mot juste here. The difficulty is not depth, in
the sense of poetry or higher math (both of which I've studied
extensively), but trying to juggle umpteen thoughts and definitions at the
same time.
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NM Public | 18 Aug 2006 20:33
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Re: Understanding Pine incoming-folders and

> Here the juggling may get worse yet. You (Nancy) refer to the
> folder-collections setting in .pinerc. On titan (the machine
> on which I mainly run pine, usually under ssh), I have the
> following :
>
> .pine.pwd
> .pinerc
> .pinerc-05-10-06
> .pinerc_05_12_06
> .pinerc-2006-04-12.Bkup
> .pinerc.old
>
> I'll assume only plain .pinerc is what pine will look in, 
[deleted]

Since you are using a remote pinerc, the best way to determine 
your primary collection (and any pine setting) is to use MSC, 
i.e.:

  Main > Setup > Config

and then use ^W to search for 'folder-collections'. Please copy 
and paste what you see in that section of your Pine SETUP 
CONFIGURATION screen.

Thanks,
Nancy
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Beartooth | 18 Aug 2006 21:51
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Re: Understanding Pine incoming-folders and

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:33:27 +0100, NM Public wrote:

>> Here the juggling may get worse yet. You (Nancy) refer to the
>> folder-collections setting in .pinerc. [...]
>> I'll assume only plain .pinerc is what pine will look in, 
> [deleted]
> 
> Since you are using a remote pinerc, the best way to determine 
> your primary collection (and any pine setting) is to use MSC, 
> i.e.:
> 
>   Main > Setup > Config
> 
> and then use ^W to search for 'folder-collections'. Please copy 
> and paste what you see in that section of your Pine SETUP 
> CONFIGURATION screen.

Trying to C&p into Pan put humongous long lines there; I can't very well
reformat them to match what I see, since I can't see all of it at once,
either. In fact, I'm not really sure what it copied. I've noticed lately
that I have trouble, for instance, copying a long URL in pine text if I
want to paste it into a non-default browser ...

Cutting and pasting piecemeal, I *seem* to be seeing this (all one line,
with a space between FM-inbox and {mail... :

Change field incoming-folders list entry : FM-inbox
{mail.messagingengine.com/ssl/novalidate-cert/user=beartooth@...}INBOX

That is often a problem with long entries, btw. If there's any way to
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Beartooth | 18 Aug 2006 21:59
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Re: Understanding Pine incoming-folders and

Ye gods & little fishes! What the blankety-blank happened??

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:51:31 -0400, Beartooth wrote:

> Cutting and pasting piecemeal, I *seem* to be seeing this (all one line,
> with a space between FM-inbox and {mail... :
> 
> Change field incoming-folders list entry : FM-inbox
> {mail.messagingengine.com/ssl/novalidate-cert/user <at> ¹êàYk!Lٚ',6z›}INBOX

I did NOT. None of that miserable gibberish between user=beartooth and the
} is any doing of mine. It SHOULD have said, after the th,
 <at> mailworks.org}INBOX -- I hope it transmits it cleanly this time.

--

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler
FC5; Pine 4.64, Pan 0.14.2.91; Privoxy 3.0.3; CXO 5.0.1
Dillo 0.8.5, Opera 9.0, Firefox 1.5, Galeon 2.0.1
Remember I have little idea what I am talking about.
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Beartooth | 18 Aug 2006 22:04
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Re: Understanding Pine incoming-folders and

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:59:47 -0400, Beartooth wrote:

> Ye gods & little fishes! What the blankety-blank happened??
> 
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:51:31 -0400, Beartooth wrote:
> 
>> Cutting and pasting piecemeal, I *seem* to be seeing this (all one line,
>> with a space between FM-inbox and {mail... :
>> 
>> Change field incoming-folders list entry : FM-inbox
>> {mail.messagingengine.com/ssl/novalidate-cert/user <at> ¹êàYk!Lٚ',6z›}INBOX
> 
> I did NOT. None of that miserable gibberish between user=beartooth and the
> } is any doing of mine. It SHOULD have said, after the th,
>  <at> mailworks.org}INBOX -- I hope it transmits it cleanly this time.

It still didn't. Something in there is triggering some software at gmane.
Ideas??

--

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler
FC5; Pine 4.64, Pan 0.14.2.91; Privoxy 3.0.3; CXO 5.0.1
Dillo 0.8.5, Opera 9.0, Firefox 1.5, Galeon 2.0.1
Remember I have little idea what I am talking about.
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Beartooth | 18 Aug 2006 22:22
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Re: Understanding Pine incoming-folders and

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:04:12 -0400, Beartooth wrote:

>> I did NOT. None of that miserable gibberish between user=beartooth and the
>> } is any doing of mine. It SHOULD have said, after the th,
>>  <at> mailworks.org}INBOX -- I hope it transmits it cleanly this time.
> 
> It still didn't. Something in there is triggering some software at gmane.
> Ideas??

Oh, blast it all! Turns out that was only a sighting shot --what I tried
to send in the first place was wrong, even without the problem in
transmission.

I had started by experimenting with the long line in the previous field,
incoming-folders, and gotten distracted by the intercalated gibberish.

Now we know that the noise enters, is it better to try again, sending the
right info? Or to find some other channel??

--

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler
FC5; Pine 4.64, Pan 0.14.2.91; Privoxy 3.0.3; CXO 5.0.1
Dillo 0.8.5, Opera 9.0, Firefox 1.5, Galeon 2.0.1
Remember I have little idea what I am talking about.
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NM Public | 19 Aug 2006 10:17
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Re: Understanding Pine incoming-folders and

Sur 2006-08-18, Beartooth skribis:
>> It still didn't. Something in there is triggering some software at gmane.
>> Ideas??

Yes, Gmane munges email addresses and any occurrence of the at 
sign ( <at> ) [which will probably be munged when I post this!].

> Now we know that the noise enters, is it better to try again, sending the
> right info? Or to find some other channel??

Yes, please post again and this time do the following:

1] Run pine on titan.

2] Type 'MSC' to view the SETUP CONFIGURATION screen.

3] Type '^W' and search for 'folder-collections' (last time you 
copy & pasted something else).

4] Copy & paste what you see in that section of the SETUP 
CONFIGURATION screen. Do not worry about text that is truncated. 
We are looking at this simply to learn what your "primary folder 
collection" is. There is probably no need (at this point) to know 
what is the truncated text.

5] Do not change anything. We are just looking at this to learn 
about your current settings!

Thanks,
  Nancy
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Beartooth | 19 Aug 2006 15:59
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Re: Understanding Pine incoming-folders and

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 09:17:19 +0100, NM Public wrote:

> Sur 2006-08-18, Beartooth skribis:
>>> It still didn't. Something in there is triggering some software at gmane.
>>> Ideas??
> 
> Yes, Gmane munges email addresses and any occurrence of the at 
> sign ( <at> ) [which will probably be munged when I post this!].
> 
> 
>> Now we know that the noise enters, is it better to try again, sending the
>> right info? Or to find some other channel??
> 
> Yes, please post again and this time do the following:
> 
> 1] Run pine on titan.
> 
> 2] Type 'MSC' to view the SETUP CONFIGURATION screen.
> 
> 3] Type '^W' and search for 'folder-collections' (last time you 
> copy & pasted something else).
> 
> 4] Copy & paste what you see in that section of the SETUP 
> CONFIGURATION screen. Do not worry about text that is truncated. 
> We are looking at this simply to learn what your "primary folder 
> collection" is. There is probably no need (at this point) to know 
> what is the truncated text.
> 
> 5] Do not change anything. We are just looking at this to learn 
> about your current settings!
(Continue reading)

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NM Public | 20 Aug 2006 09:43
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Re: Understanding Pine incoming-folders and

> folder-collections = "titan.lserv.com IMAP"    {titan.lserv.c
>                      FM    {mail.messagingengine.com/ssl/nova
>                      Mail  mail/[]
> news-collections   = <No Value Set>

This says that you have 3 collections:

   Lserv (IMAP)
   FastMail (IMAP)
   $HOME/mail (on the local* system)

Since Lserv is first in your folder-collections list, it is 
currently** your "primary folder collection" -- bear that in mind 
as you read about Pine's incoming-folders and 
incoming-archive-folders.

Let me know if you have any questions about incoming-folders and 
incoming-archive-folders. My hope is that what I have written on 
my Power Pine page will help you to understand these and to set 
these up yourself *without my needing to walk you through the 
steps*.

Do not hesitate to ask questions. Please ask before you actually 
implement your incoming-folders and incoming-archive-folders 
because it is easy to screw things up (as you've discovered!).

Good luck!
Nancy

*"Local" means the system on which Pine is running. In this case,
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