Richard Stallman | 1 Sep 04:23 2003
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Re: RMS note to Vivaravicharam: GNU Swatantra

    Software licence fees could be  equated with kappam.

That sounds plausible to me.  If "kappam" is Tamil, is there an
equivalent Sanskrit term?

    So let  us call  Free software, GNU Swatantra (hindi version)  or
				    GNU Sudandiram (tamil version).

Before the FSF India was started, we thought of calling it
the Swatantra Software Sabha.  But someone argued that the term
had been appropriated by right-wing parties.  Others disagreed.
There was no consensus on using it, so we didn't.
Dileep M. Kumar | 1 Sep 07:30 2003
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Re: Re: RMS note to Vivaravicharam: GNU Swatantra

On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 10:23:06PM -0400, Richard Stallman wrote:

>>>That sounds plausible to me.  If "kappam" is Tamil, is there an
>>>equivalent Sanskrit term?

The  word  Kappam  is  in   Malayalam  too.   There  is  another  word
"Chungam". This also means Kappam (A  sort of tax/fees given to a King
for  protecting the  land/people. King/Lords  (Nattu Raja)  of smaller
states gave this to Chakravarti (King of Kingdoms). 

>>>Before  the FSF India  was started,  we thought  of calling  it the
>>>Swatantra  Software Sabha.  But  someone argued  that the  term had
>>>been appropriated by  right-wing parties.  Others disagreed.  There
>>>was no consensus on using it, so we didn't.

Swatantra Software Sabha - Sounds fine. We have to find an appropriate
term for Software  also. I read in one magazine a  term for Computer -
"Ganana Yanthram" 

Gananam = Computing
Yanthram = Machine

I suggest Ganana Soothram for Software.

Sootram = Technique

Regards
--

-- 
 .''`.     Dileep M. Kumar <dileep@...>
: :'  :    http://www.kumarayil.net
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Suraj | 1 Sep 07:51 2003
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Re: Re: RMS note to Vivaravicharam: GNU Swatantra

Dileep M. Kumar wrote on Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 11:00:13AM +0530: 
,----
| The  word  Kappam  is  in   Malayalam  too.   There  is  another  word
| "Chungam". This also means Kappam (A  sort of tax/fees given to a King
| for  protecting the  land/people. King/Lords  (Nattu Raja)  of smaller
| states gave this to Chakravarti (King of Kingdoms).
`----

Chungam / Kappam et al are derived from Tamil. Malayalam being a tamil
+ sanskrit  derivate is bound to have  a lot of things  in common with
Tamil / sanskrit and hence I think there is no point in trying to find
"pure" malayalam  words.  Especially  words like 'sungam'  or 'kappam'
might all  have formed  much later in  the history of  these languages
that they could have very well been imported from elsewhere.

,----
| Swatantra Software Sabha - Sounds fine. We have to find an appropriate
| term for Software  also. I read in one magazine a  term for Computer -
| "Ganana Yanthram"
`----

In  tamil  the  equivalent  is  'men  porul'  (men  =  soft,  porul  =
thing/ware).. But Ganana Soothram sounds good.

best,

  -Suraj

--

-- 
+--------------------------------------------------<suraj@...>--+
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Dileep M. Kumar | 1 Sep 08:31 2003
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Re: Re: RMS note to Vivaravicharam: GNU Swatantra

On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 10:51:43PM -0700, Suraj wrote:

>>>Malayalam being a tamil + sanskrit  derivate is bound to have a lot
>>>of things in  common with Tamil / sanskrit and  hence I think there
>>>is no point in trying to find "pure" malayalam words. 

Dear Suraj, RMS was asking for the Sanskrit equivalent of Kappam, so I
was telling in  Malayalam also it is same, "Kappam".   I don't know in
Sanskrit  what  is  the  equivalent  word. (is  there  a  word  called
"Nikuthi" in Sanskrit. It is for Tax in Malayalam. Kappam also is some
sort of Tax).

FYI,  old Malyalam  was derived  from  Tamil and  Sanskrit. But  later
Thunchathu Ezhuthachan (Father of Malyalam) purified Malayalam a lot.

For eg: "Thanta" is Father as  per old Malayalam. But now it is called
"Achan"  (in  Tamil it  is  Appa).   Calling  our father  "Thanta"  is
considered as *bad* now. Similary "Thalla" is now "Amma".

Regards
--

-- 
 .''`.     Dileep M. Kumar <dileep@...>
: :'  :    http://www.kumarayil.net
`. `'`
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux - Choice of the Freedom Lovers
Mahesh T. Pai | 1 Sep 08:26 2003
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Re: Re: RMS note to Vivaravicharam: GNU Swatantra

Richard Stallman said on Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 10:23:06PM -0400,:

 > Before the FSF India was started, we thought of calling it
 > the Swatantra Software Sabha.

Sabha translates to 'association', 'group' etc. At the best, a club. 

"prathishtasn"  would be a  better word  for 'Foundation';  once again,
with sanskrit leanings and  universal recognition. In malayalam, it is
'prathishtapanam'.

At least, that is what I used in the Malayalam translation of the GPL;
and so far, no body has come up with alternatives.

"Free Software Foundation" is, in the translation, is

"Swatantra Software Prathishtapnam"

Or should it be 'prathishtaan'?

Pronouncing prathishtaan -

pra  - like the pr in pride, stress is on the r.
thi  - like 'the', with 'e' pronounced as the 'i' in 'ink'
sh   - like 'sh' in 'should' and 'she'
ta   - stress is on 't', similar to 'ta' in 'tawny' and 'tan',
       but 't' should sound like an explosion and a long 'a'.

--

-- 
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
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Mahesh T. Pai | 1 Sep 08:33 2003
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Re: Re: RMS note to Vivaravicharam: GNU Swatantra

Dileep M. Kumar said on Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 11:00:13AM +0530,:

 > >>>That sounds plausible to me.  If "kappam" is Tamil, is there an
 > >>>equivalent Sanskrit term?
 > 
 > The  word  Kappam  is  in   Malayalam  too.   There  is  another  word
 > "Chungam". This also means Kappam (A  sort of tax/fees given to a King

"royalty" in King's English. No pun intended - SeRiOuSlY.

 > I suggest Ganana Soothram for Software.
 > 
 > Sootram = Technique

Software  is   not  used  for   'ganana'  (mathematical  calculations)
alone. Of course, science graduates  on the list will have a different
opinion; I am speaking of the common perception. 

I suggest  that the word  'software' be used  as it is. English  has a
large number of foreign words, mostly from indic languages. 

Let the indic languages pay 'kappam' to the English language for once,
bu adopting an English word.

--

-- 
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  Mahesh T. Pai, LL.M.,                   
  'NANDINI', S. R. M. Road,               
  Ernakulam, Cochin-682018,               
(Continue reading)

Mahesh T. Pai | 1 Sep 11:00 2003
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Re: Re: RMS note to Vivaravicharam: GNU Swatantra

Mahesh T. Pai said on Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 11:56:09AM +0530,:

 > "prathishtasn"  would be a  better word  for 'Foundation'; once
            ^^^^

typo. "parthishtaan"
	    
--

-- 
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  Mahesh T. Pai, LL.M.,                   
  'NANDINI', S. R. M. Road,               
  Ernakulam, Cochin-682018,               
  Kerala, India.                          

  http://in.geocities.com/paivakil         

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Mahesh T. Pai | 1 Sep 11:07 2003
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Re: FROM INDIA: Free software development for e-gov...

Mahesh T. Pai said on Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 11:30:36PM +0530,:

 > Sure. I Guess that Mr. 

This ought to have read:-

Sure. I guess that Mr. Umashankar is aware of users' freedoms when he
says:-

"They will be able to modify the code and improve it as well."

But Mr.  Umashankar  will have to choose an  appropriate Free Software
license, and also port the s/w  to appropriate framework.  VB is, as I
understand, only  a tool for GUI  development.  What is  the back end?
Free software is not free unless  the tools used to build / compile it
too are free. For example,  see the Debian Free Software Guidelines on
http://debian.org 

--

-- 
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  Mahesh T. Pai, LL.M.,                   
  'NANDINI', S. R. M. Road,               
  Ernakulam, Cochin-682018,               
  Kerala, India.                          

  http://in.geocities.com/paivakil         

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
(Continue reading)

Joe Steeve | 1 Sep 12:51 2003
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Re: Re: RMS note to Vivaravicharam: GNU Swatantra


> Before the FSF India was started, we thought of calling it
> the Swatantra Software Sabha.  

In fact., that is the rigt terminology. It rightly decribes 'Free Software'.

Cheers,
Joe

--

-- 
-Able was I eRe I saw elbA-

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eiidp | 1 Sep 12:14 2003

Re: RMS note to Vivaravichara

Through my earlier mail, I have tried to raise following four points.
                                                                                                    
1. The spatial and historical variation of the message conveyed through a word should be taken into
consideration while those are used in campaign for freedom.
                                                                                                    
2. 'Swadesh' is not a proper word to represent 'free software', instead 'taddesh' can be used which is
synonymous with Gandhiji's 'gram swaraj'.
                                                                                                    
        It is true that Gandhiji had used the word 'swadeshi' in campaign to boycott British goods during Indian
independence struggle. However later Hindu fanatic groups through their vigorous campaign used it to
divide people on religious line.
        Here it is unknowingly used by a person like Richard Stallman who himself is an evangelist of freedom and
leader of a freedom movement for usage of software. It will in turn become a tool for right-wing fascist
groups  in the contemperory India through synonymous use of 'swadesh' and 'freedom'. 
                                                                                                    
3. 'Free' is not a proper adjective to represent freedom.
                                                                                                    
  As Ramanraj and others correctly pointed out 'sudandira' in Tamil and 'swathanthra'  in Malayalam, Hindi,
Sanskrit etc. are the best choice to represent freedom. However  these languages altogether is spoken by
only less than 25 % of the world population. So there should be better adjective in English itself.

4. The usage of 'Linux' for 'GNU/Linux' is justified for ease of use.
                                                                                                    
  It is true that 'Linux' is name of a kernel. However it is more frequently used to represent the 'GNU/Linux'
operating system.
                                                                                                    
Mahesh T Pai has pointed out certain links to philosophical documents. There should be timely revision of
these document, then only the philosophy and practice of freedom will live for its purpose. Otherwise it
may turned to formation of another cult.
                                                                                                    
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Gmane