Francesco Poli | 1 Feb 19:09

Re: Clarification needed: parallel distribution

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:19:33 -0500 drew Roberts wrote:

> On Friday 27 January 2012 16:27:58 Francesco Poli wrote:
[...]
> > I am convinced that some (excessive) forms of prohibition of DRM are
> > non-free restrictions.
> 
> Can you give some examples of what you consider to be non-excessive and 
> excessive prohibitions?

Basically, I think that banning *all* DRM, no matter what, is an
excessive form of prohibition and is a non-free restriction.

A non-excessive form of prohibition would be one that allows the
distribution of DRM-encumbered copies, *as long as* an unencumbered
copy is offered in parallel (the so-called "parallel distribution"
scenario).

> 
> > I think that there are indeed ways to fight against DRM without
> > introducing non-free restrictions. But forbidding all kinds of
> > distribution of DRM-encumbered copies is a non-free restriction, IMHO.
> >
> > I think that allowing the distribution of DRM-encumbered with the
> > parallel distribution of an unencumbered copy adequately fights against
> > DRM and protects the recipients' freedom.
> 
> Not necessarily for that recipient who only has the box that is "DRM locked" 
> surely. Or please explain.

(Continue reading)

Luis Villa | 3 Feb 05:37

An "additional permissions" framework [was Re: Time limited CC licenses for version 4.0?]

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Diane Peters
<diane@...> wrote:
> A reminder that we've posted the time-limited suggestions to the 4.0 wiki:
>  http://wiki.creativecommons.org/4.0/Sandbox#Time-based_switch_to_more_freedom
>
> Feel free to add more specifics and pros/cons on the wiki page.

I think the idea of relaxing restrictions at pre-determined future
times is a good one, but I think it's a specific case of a more
general issue: the occasional need to draft and attach additional
permissions.

The GPL community discovered this problem during the late 90s and
early 00s, when it became somewhat common to draft "exceptions" that
were then essentially attached as riders to the license. GPL v3
formalizes this:

=======
“Additional permissions” are terms that supplement the terms of this
License by making exceptions from one or more of its conditions.
Additional permissions that are applicable to the entire Program shall
be treated as though they were included in this License, to the extent
that they are valid under applicable law. If additional permissions
apply only to part of the Program, that part may be used separately
under those permissions, but the entire Program remains governed by
this License without regard to the additional permissions.

When you convey a copy of a covered work, you may at your option
remove any additional permissions from that copy, or from any part of
it. (Additional permissions may be written to require their own
(Continue reading)

Rob Myers | 4 Feb 21:06
Gravatar

Re: Clarification needed: parallel distribution

On 01/02/12 18:09, Francesco Poli wrote:
> 
> What can you really do for that recipient that is trapped in a
> DRM-locked platform?

Why are we concerned about helping keep people locked into DRM-locked
platforms?

Helping to keep people locked in to DRM-locked platforms helps platform
vendors, not users.

It is not something that can be done in the name of freedom.

> If the "parallel distribution" scenario is *not* allowed, *any*
> distribution of CC-licensed works to him/her is forbidden.

CC-licensed works are works that you are free to use. DRM removes that
freedom.

The problem is with DRM, not with CC-licensed works.

The solution is to help people install or move to free systems.

All this said, people should be free to use the work privately however
they wish, this includes applying DRM where this is necessary to
download work to effectively read-only devices.

- Rob.
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(Continue reading)

Mäkinen Kaisa | 15 Feb 17:15
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Catalogue right to CC 4.0

Hello,

 

Having database right included in the future CC 4.0 is a very welcome change, thank you for the CC-community for that. I would, though, very much like to see also the so-called catalogue right included in the CC 4.0.

 

The catalogue right exists in the Nordic Countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden). To my knowledge, it does not exist anywhere else, but I would be interested to know if that is true. The catalogue right is a neighboring right, or sui generis -right, much like the EU database right.  Actually, the Nordic catalogue rights were a sort of model for EU database right. The scopes of these two rights are very similar, and in part, overlapping, so that a work can have both the sui generis database right and the catalogue right protection. Therefore, including the catalogue right in CC 4.0, assuming that the sui generis database right will be included, should be rather easy by, for example, simply linking them to the sui generis right in those jurisdiction where the catalogue right exists.

 

Kaisa Mäkinen

 

Legal Counsel, LL.M

Helsinki Region Infoshare (www.hri.fi)

 

 

 

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Aurelia J. Schultz | 15 Feb 18:19

Re: Catalogue right to CC 4.0

Dear Kaisa,

Thank you for your email. Could you explain more about what the catalogue right? What does it cover? And how does it differ from database rights?

Best,
Aurelia

2012/2/15 Mäkinen Kaisa <Kaisa.Makinen-RuHqamcpiKc@public.gmane.org>

Hello,

 

Having database right included in the future CC 4.0 is a very welcome change, thank you for the CC-community for that. I would, though, very much like to see also the so-called catalogue right included in the CC 4.0.

 

The catalogue right exists in the Nordic Countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden). To my knowledge, it does not exist anywhere else, but I would be interested to know if that is true. The catalogue right is a neighboring right, or sui generis -right, much like the EU database right.  Actually, the Nordic catalogue rights were a sort of model for EU database right. The scopes of these two rights are very similar, and in part, overlapping, so that a work can have both the sui generis database right and the catalogue right protection. Therefore, including the catalogue right in CC 4.0, assuming that the sui generis database right will be included, should be rather easy by, for example, simply linking them to the sui generis right in those jurisdiction where the catalogue right exists.

 

Kaisa Mäkinen

 

Legal Counsel, LL.M

Helsinki Region Infoshare (www.hri.fi)

 

 

 


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--
------------------------
Aurelia J. Schultz (Miss), Counsel
Creative Commons 
+1 650 294 4732 x487
Skype: aurelia.schultz

Please note: the contents of this email are not intended to be legal advice nor should they be relied upon as, or represented to be legal advice.
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Picon

Re: Catalogue right to CC 4.0

hi

I don't know that catalogue right but from what Kaisa wrote I assume it 
is a special protection you receive if you compile a catalogue - 
irrespective of whether that is a collection/collective work in the 
copyright sense.

Anyways, what I wanted to clarify is that the database right was in fact 
already included in 3.0, but was then waived further down in the license 
text (instead of licensed). Thus, the possible change in 4.0 would only 
be to license it instead.

It's somewhat irritating to hear that there are actually more of those 
sui-generis rights out there. How to deal with that? To include them all 
by explcitly naming them would mean that the license becomes outdated 
once a new sui-generis right is introduced somewhere around the world. 
To "catch them all" (also in the future) via an abstract definition 
might be tough and raise legal uncertainties.

bad bad bad ...

Best
John

On 15.02.2012 18:19, Aurelia J. Schultz wrote:
> Dear Kaisa,
>
> Thank you for your email. Could you explain more about what the
> catalogue right? What does it cover? And how does it differ from
> database rights?
>
> Best,
> Aurelia
>
> 2012/2/15 Mäkinen Kaisa <Kaisa.Makinen@... <mailto:Kaisa.Makinen <at> hel.fi>>
>
>     Hello,
>
>     Having database right included in the future CC 4.0 is a very
>     welcome change, thank you for the CC-community for that. I would,
>     though, very much like to see also the so-called catalogue right
>     included in the CC 4.0.
>
>     The catalogue right exists in the Nordic Countries (Denmark,
>     Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden). To my knowledge, it does not
>     exist anywhere else, but I would be interested to know if that is
>     true. The catalogue right is a neighboring right, or sui generis
>     -right, much like the EU database right.  Actually, the Nordic
>     catalogue rights were a sort of model for EU database right. The
>     scopes of these two rights are very similar, and in part,
>     overlapping, so that a work can have both the sui generis database
>     right and the catalogue right protection. Therefore, including the
>     catalogue right in CC 4.0, assuming that the sui generis database
>     right will be included, should be rather easy by, for example,
>     simply linking them to the sui generis right in those jurisdiction
>     where the catalogue right exists.
>
>     Kaisa Mäkinen
>
>     Legal Counsel, LL.M
>
>     Helsinki Region Infoshare (www.hri.fi <http://www.hri.fi>)
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     List info and archives at
>     http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-licenses
>     Unsubscribe at http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/options/cc-licenses
>
>     In consideration of people subscribed to this list to participate
>     in the CC licenses http://wiki.creativecommons.org/4.0 development
>     process, please direct unrelated discussions to the cc-community list
>     http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-community
>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Aurelia J. Schultz (Miss), Counsel
> Creative Commons
> +1 650 294 4732 x487
> Skype: aurelia.schultz
>
> Please note: the contents of this email are not intended to be legal
> advice nor should they be relied upon as, or represented to be legal advice.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List info and archives at http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-licenses
> Unsubscribe at http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/options/cc-licenses
>
> In consideration of people subscribed to this list to participate
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> process, please direct unrelated discussions to the cc-community list
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-community
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Mäkinen Kaisa | 17 Feb 13:31
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Re: Catalogue right to CC 4.0

Dear Aurelia,

 

The Finnish Copyright Act, Section 49 prescribes that (unofficial English translation, available at www.finlex.fi):

 

(1) A person who has made

1. a catalogue, a table, a program or any other product in which a large number of

information items are compiled, or

2. a database the obtaining, verification or presentation of which has required

substantial investment,

shall have the exclusive right to control the whole or, in qualitative or quantitative terms, a

substantial part thereof, by making copies of it and by making it available to the public.

 

Section (1)1. prescribes the catalogue right and (1)2. the database sui generis right (as written in the EU directive). As you can see, these two rights are combined under the same section. The rights they confer to the rightholder are the same. Both provide protection for a work that is not a copyrighted work but is a collection of a large amount of information, in digital or other form. Essential in these both rights is that the protection is given due to the investments (financial or other) made by the maker of the catalogue or database. This was also the main reason for adopting the EU database directive. My understanding is, that in most cases, a work described in the Section 49 can have both a catalogue right protection and a sui generis database right protection at the same time. In practice, this is not a problem because the rights given to the rightholder are the same in both cases. There can, however, exist cases where a collection of information cannot get sui generis database protection but may have catalogue right protection. For example databases whose content is collected from automated measurement or imaging instruments do not have sui generis database rights but may, instead, have a catalogue right protection.

 

Perhaps someone with more scientific approach to law can give a more detailed explanation. I would also be interested to hear opinions of colleagues from other Nordic Coutries.

 

Best, Kaisa

 

 

 

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Sarah Pearson | 17 Feb 20:50

Re: Catalogue right to CC 4.0

Thanks very much, Kaisa. I have added this issue to the 4.0 wiki here.

As John mentioned in a previous post, trying to craft the license in a way that accounts for all of these types of rights is going to be tricky. We encourage as many people as possible to bring up other similar/corresponding rights we should take into account. Please add them to the wiki: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/4.0/License_subject_matter#Considerations_regarding_scope_of_license.3B_other_copyright-like_rights

best,
Sarah

2012/2/17 Mäkinen Kaisa <Kaisa.Makinen-RuHqamcpiKc@public.gmane.org>

Dear Aurelia,

 

The Finnish Copyright Act, Section 49 prescribes that (unofficial English translation, available at www.finlex.fi):

 

(1) A person who has made

1. a catalogue, a table, a program or any other product in which a large number of

information items are compiled, or

2. a database the obtaining, verification or presentation of which has required

substantial investment,

shall have the exclusive right to control the whole or, in qualitative or quantitative terms, a

substantial part thereof, by making copies of it and by making it available to the public.

 

Section (1)1. prescribes the catalogue right and (1)2. the database sui generis right (as written in the EU directive). As you can see, these two rights are combined under the same section. The rights they confer to the rightholder are the same. Both provide protection for a work that is not a copyrighted work but is a collection of a large amount of information, in digital or other form. Essential in these both rights is that the protection is given due to the investments (financial or other) made by the maker of the catalogue or database. This was also the main reason for adopting the EU database directive. My understanding is, that in most cases, a work described in the Section 49 can have both a catalogue right protection and a sui generis database right protection at the same time. In practice, this is not a problem because the rights given to the rightholder are the same in both cases. There can, however, exist cases where a collection of information cannot get sui generis database protection but may have catalogue right protection. For example databases whose content is collected from automated measurement or imaging instruments do not have sui generis database rights but may, instead, have a catalogue right protection.

 

Perhaps someone with more scientific approach to law can give a more detailed explanation. I would also be interested to hear opinions of colleagues from other Nordic Coutries.

 

Best, Kaisa

 

 

 


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Gmane