5 Nov 2008 15:38

### Hi, some question about the docs

Hi I'm Matteo from italy, I'm reading (for studyng purpose) the documentation about the netsukuku project, but I've a couple of problem:
You says that there could be two different separated gnodes that may be the same ID (and so you have created the fingerprint I think)  but why can you have 2 nodes with the same id? you could have the same g0 number but not all the combination g3.g2.g1.g0, isn't it? (Netsukuku topology doc, at the end of page 4)

Another one:
In the topology doc, page 5 you made ah example between plain topology and hierarchical one, but I think that you have wrongly typed "b" instead of "B", i mean:
do you say: N only needs 256n entries in it's map instead of 2^32, if each entry cost 1Byte, we have:
plain topology: 4GB of map
Hierarchical topology: 256*4B = 1KB (and you have written 256*4b = 1Kb ==> 128Byte)

Last one:
Each node in it's map has:
256 nodes that is on it's same level (his neighbour)
256 nodes for the level 1
256 nodes for the level 2
256 nodes for the level 4
and then stop if we consider only the ipv4 structure, but continues if we consider ipv6 or ipv7,8,9,10 ecc..

I'm right? I'm missing something? or I'm simply too stupid to understand the docs? :D

I was thinking even on translating the doc into italian.

ps.: Dato che queste incomprensioni probabilmente derivano da mie interpretazioni, dei documenti, errate, se mi rispondete in italiano, sarebbe gradito, così da evitare altri "misunderstanding".

Thanks

--
__Matteo__

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5 Nov 2008 16:26

### Re: Hi, some question about the docs

```On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 03:38:27PM +0100, <Matteo>:
~> You says that there could be two different separated gnodes that may be the
~> same ID (and so you have created the fingerprint I think)  but why can you
~> have 2 nodes with the same id? you could have the same g0 number but not all
~> the combination g3.g2.g1.g0, isn't it? (Netsukuku topology doc, at the end
~> of page 4)

Si, in effetti non e' chiarissima la descrizione. Il punto chiave e'
"separated".
Due nodi non dovrebbero avere lo stesso g3.g2.g1.g0. Poiche' pero' esiste anche
l'eventualita' che due nodi scelgano lo stesso ID, occorre avere un altro tipo di ID, ovvero il fingerprint.
L'ID e' usato all'interno della rete. Il fingerprint e' un ID "assoluto", che
dovrebbe garantire l'unicita' di ogni macchina.

In pratica:
supponi che due nodi creino separatamente due reti Netsukuku, una in
Europa e una sulla Luna. supponi anche che in queste due reti, due
nodi scelgano lo stesso ID. Fino a quando le reti rimangono separate,
non sorge alcun problema. Quando pero' vorrai collegare la Luna con
l'Europa, allora dovrai poter distinguere i due nodi, per dirgli: "tu
cambia ID; tu invece no".

Lo stesso discorso si puo' fare in generale per i gnode. Quindi il fingerprint
lo assegni anche ad un intero gnode.

~> Another one:
~> In the topology doc, page 5 you made ah example between plain topology and
~> hierarchical one, but I think that you have wrongly typed "b" instead of
~> "B"

si. "b" era per "byte", non per bit.

~> Last one:
~> Each node in it's map has:
~> 256 nodes that is on it's same level (his neighbour)
~> 256 nodes for the level 1
~> 256 nodes for the level 2
~> 256 nodes for the level 4
~> and then stop if we consider only the ipv4 structure, but continues if we
~> consider ipv6 or ipv7,8,9,10 ecc..

si, anche se sarebbe piu' corretto dire:
256 nodes that is on it's same level (his neighbour)
256 gnodes for the level 1
256 gnodes for the level 2
256 gnodes for the level 3

--

--
:wq!
"I don't know nothing" The One Who reached the Thinking Matter   '.'

[ Alpt --- Freaknet Medialab ]
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5 Nov 2008 22:02

### Re: Hi, some question about the docs

Thanks a lot.
Grazie

Ciao

Il giorno 5 novembre 2008 16.26, Alpt ha scritto:
On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 03:38:27PM +0100, <Matteo>:
~> You says that there could be two different separated gnodes that may be the
~> same ID (and so you have created the fingerprint I think)  but why can you
~> have 2 nodes with the same id? you could have the same g0 number but not all
~> the combination g3.g2.g1.g0, isn't it? (Netsukuku topology doc, at the end
~> of page 4)

Si, in effetti non e' chiarissima la descrizione. Il punto chiave e'
"separated".
Due nodi non dovrebbero avere lo stesso g3.g2.g1.g0. Poiche' pero' esiste anche
l'eventualita' che due nodi scelgano lo stesso ID, occorre avere un altro tipo di ID, ovvero il fingerprint.
L'ID e' usato all'interno della rete. Il fingerprint e' un ID "assoluto", che
dovrebbe garantire l'unicita' di ogni macchina.

In pratica:
supponi che due nodi creino separatamente due reti Netsukuku, una in
Europa e una sulla Luna. supponi anche che in queste due reti, due
nodi scelgano lo stesso ID. Fino a quando le reti rimangono separate,
non sorge alcun problema. Quando pero' vorrai collegare la Luna con
l'Europa, allora dovrai poter distinguere i due nodi, per dirgli: "tu
cambia ID; tu invece no".

Lo stesso discorso si puo' fare in generale per i gnode. Quindi il fingerprint
lo assegni anche ad un intero gnode.

~> Another one:
~> In the topology doc, page 5 you made ah example between plain topology and
~> hierarchical one, but I think that you have wrongly typed "b" instead of
~> "B"

si. "b" era per "byte", non per bit.

~> Last one:
~> Each node in it's map has:
~> 256 nodes that is on it's same level (his neighbour)
~> 256 nodes for the level 1
~> 256 nodes for the level 2
~> 256 nodes for the level 4
~> and then stop if we consider only the ipv4 structure, but continues if we
~> consider ipv6 or ipv7,8,9,10 ecc..

si, anche se sarebbe piu' corretto dire:
256 nodes that is on it's same level (his neighbour)
256 gnodes for the level 1
256 gnodes for the level 2
256 gnodes for the level 3

--
:wq!
"I don't know nothing" The One Who reached the Thinking Matter   '.'

[ Alpt --- Freaknet Medialab ]
[ GPG Key ID 441CF0EE ]
[ Key fingerprint = 8B02 26E8 831A 7BB9 81A9  5277 BFF8 037E 441C F0EE ]
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11 Nov 2008 14:29

### to the developers

```Hi everybody

Recently, I've seen that new code has been committed to the svn for
this project.
(http://dev.hinezumi.org/browser/netsukuku)
So I assume that someone of the developers is still active on the project.

The web site, on the other hand, seems to be left in a very old state.

The IRC channel is often quite full of people, but all of them seem to
be just listening, and nothing seems to happen.

The mailing list, you know, is silent.

In the end, I would ask, how are the developers communicating between
themselves? Or is the project becoming a one-man-project?
Are there any means for the casual, interested, people (or for the
wanna-be-developer) to get informed on the ways the project evolve?

--Luca
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11 Nov 2008 16:52

### Re: to the developers

Hi, I'm intrested in the project, and I'm a C programmer.
Now I'm reading for studing purpose the documentation about ANDNA and QSPN because I've to do a short, self-explanatory, lesson to my college colleagues, so if you want I can translate and review the docs looking for errors or else.
The ML is silent, the site is old, maybe it's time to make some "outing" for the project.
The interest in Netsukuku is high but people with enough knowlege in networking and C is rare.

I suggest you to make a little (not so little) docs about coding netsukuku, maybe could be useful for young programmers that would join the project.
Another point is: There is some howto on making a Netsukuku network from a pc +  wifi antenna? (I can't find it, bt I've no search the net well...)

What about the GSOC students? He left the team?

2008/11/11 Luca Dionisi
Hi everybody

Recently, I've seen that new code has been committed to the svn for
this project.
(http://dev.hinezumi.org/browser/netsukuku)
So I assume that someone of the developers is still active on the project.

The web site, on the other hand, seems to be left in a very old state.

The IRC channel is often quite full of people, but all of them seem to
be just listening, and nothing seems to happen.

The mailing list, you know, is silent.

In the end, I would ask, how are the developers communicating between
themselves? Or is the project becoming a one-man-project?
Are there any means for the casual, interested, people (or for the
wanna-be-developer) to get informed on the ways the project evolve?

--Luca
_______________________________________________
Netsukuku mailing list
Netsukuku-pma9X3FYtpzZ+VzJOa5vwg@public.gmane.org
http://lists.dyne.org/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku

--
__Matteo__

```_______________________________________________
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```
11 Nov 2008 17:23

### Re: to the developers

```On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 04:52:48PM +0100, <Matteo>:
~> Hi, I'm intrested in the project, and I'm a C programmer.
~> Now I'm reading for studing purpose the documentation about ANDNA and QSPN
~> because I've to do a short, self-explanatory, lesson to my college
~> colleagues, so if you want I can translate and review the docs looking for
~> errors or else.

great!

~> The interest in Netsukuku is high but people with enough knowlege in
~> networking and C is rare.

That is exactly the point.

~> I suggest you to make a little (not so little) docs about coding netsukuku,
~> maybe could be useful for young programmers that would join the project.

Right.
The pyntk code is clear and well commented, so it will be enough to describe
the general architecture (events, rpc, ...) and give a "reading order".
This now goes in top priority.
However, if you are studying the code, feel free to ask any question to

~> Another point is: There is some howto on making a Netsukuku network from a
~> pc +  wifi antenna? (I can't find it, bt I've no search the net well...)

first the working code, then the howto.

~> What about the GSOC students? He left the team?

Left the team?
--

--
:wq!
"I don't know nothing" The One Who reached the Thinking Matter   '.'

[ Alpt --- Freaknet Medialab ]
[ GPG Key ID 441CF0EE ]
[ Key fingerprint = 8B02 26E8 831A 7BB9 81A9  5277 BFF8 037E 441C F0EE ]
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```
11 Nov 2008 18:14

### Re: to the developers

Left the team?

Yes! I mean Google Summer of Code, I've heard that Netsukuku was into this program in 2008, so I think that there were a college students working on this last summer, isn't it?
If you have a students helping you with the code, where is he/she now? is still with us or not?

--
__Matteo__

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```
11 Nov 2008 19:37

### Re: to the developers

```On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Matteo <matteo.brichese@...> wrote:
> Hi, I'm intrested in the project, and I'm a C programmer.
> Now I'm reading for studing purpose the documentation about ANDNA and QSPN
> because I've to do a short, self-explanatory, lesson to my college
> colleagues, so if you want I can translate and review the docs looking for
> errors or else.

Hi, I've got a few suggestions that will improve the project. The first thing we
(I'm not a C programmer myself but i can help you with testing, i have quite a
few routers and radio cards). The current Netsukuku C implementation doesn't
work as it should, and it's a bit out of date since it doesn't compile
on kernels
2.6. My suggestion is that we should make at least another C release while
the python codebase stabilizes. Me and other people were working on syncing
Netsukuku with the current OpenWRT kamikaze release and we have made
some advances. If we squash all the bugs then we will increase the userbase
and more people will get willing to work on documentation, site, translations,
etc.

> The interest in Netsukuku is high but people with enough knowlege in
> networking and C is rare.

Yes, and this might sound as a call for all the people who were always
present on the ML to start helping on the project for real. I know that many
of us are busy with real life issues, but this might be the time to
start devoting
to update the status of Netsukuku. We need a team of people who are willing
to maintain a wiki, organize the trac and handle bug reports, writers, etc. The
developers can't handle all the things we need to lift Netsukuku up to date.

> I suggest you to make a little (not so little) docs about coding netsukuku,
> maybe could be useful for young programmers that would join the project.
> Another point is: There is some howto on making a Netsukuku network from a
> pc +  wifi antenna? (I can't find it, bt I've no search the net well...)

There is some on the Netsukuku website, and the guys at Meganetwork[1] and
Ninux[2] as well CogitoWireless[3] have made some testing and documentation
about Netsukuku. Again, we must work on consolidating all the HOWTOs and
configuration issues in the Netsukuku website.

I know that the devs would say that code is what matters now, and it's
perfectly fine, but since there are people who are willing to take up tasks
that will help the project then it might be time to assign new tasks and
get organized?

[1] http://www.meganetwork.org/
[2] http://wiki.ninux.org/
[3] http://wiki.cogitowireless.net
--

--
Ricardo Lanziano
6838 E880 7CA4 D4B6 8283  8F65 96AD EC0B F113 AB62
Unix is simple. It just takes a genius to understand its simplicity.
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11 Nov 2008 23:03

### Re: to the developers

```> [1] http://www.meganetwork.org/

This site radically changed lately ;)

Netsukuku there now :)

Saverio
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12 Nov 2008 02:16

### Re: to the developers

```> My suggestion is that we should make at least another C release while
> the python codebase stabilizes.

This seems counterproductive to me. Why not focus on bringing the more
up to date python implementation up to release quality? It's been
getting there for so long, it can't have far to go now...
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Gmane