Don Faulkner | 4 Feb 22:28 2004
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Re: Proposal for new tlds: .wap .fwap .cwap

Sorry for the delay in replying. Life interferes as it is wont to.
All in all, this is an interesting idea.

On Jan 23, 2004, at 3:05 AM, Rob wrote:

> The purpose of this group of tld's is solely as a repository for 
> information about Wireless Access Points that are available for use by 
> the public.
>
> .cwap - This would be for any waps that charge for access.
>
> .fwap - This would be for any waps that are free for use by the public.
>
> .wap - This is the union of .fwap and .cwap such that if people are 
> looking for waps regardless of charge for access they can find them.

I have to agree with Robin on the (f|c)wap issue. I'd prefer to see a 
single .wap TLD with f.wap and c.wap (I'm not picky on the names) 
SLD's.

I can understand the political viewpoint of separation, but I think 
both groups would agree that .wap is more easily remembered. If I were 
a business traveller searching for an available access point, I'd begin 
that search in .wap, because that's an obvious name, and also because 
I'd get both free and commercial waps, enabling me to make the choice 
later.

> Some Details:
> The charter would mandate that subdomains are allowed to 4 - 5 levels 
> but no dns control would be delegated - the objective is to have a 
(Continue reading)

Shiwan - | 4 Feb 23:16 2004
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Re: Proposal for new tlds: .wap .fwap .cwap

        Wait,

        Those TLDs were proposed in complete seriousness? I chuckled my way 
through the original e-mail; I sense that that was not the intended effect. 
I mean, I have no issue with .wap, but the other two...

        I hate to look like the immature one and turn this into a 
masturbation joke, but, really, may I please have fwap.fwap? =D

        .cwap isn't that bad, aside that it sounds like a cute 
pronounciation of "crap".

        Aside from what I've mentioned, I think this is a neat idea. 
Especially using MAC addresses as aliases. It'd probably be good to actually 
/require/ them, for each access point.

        Ironic that this is the first post I've ever made to this list, yet 
I've been a member since soon after OpenNIC's conception. Good motivation?

        Cheers,
        -- Vlad

--
end

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(Continue reading)

Rob | 5 Feb 00:15 2004

Re: Proposal for new tlds: .wap .fwap .cwap

Hi,

Yeah, I guess I should have said that is my original post(s). I see 
wireless, location based and stand alone, ad hoc, mesh, 
whatever-you-want-to-call-them networks becoming bigger as the price 
points for servers and mobile devices goes down. Currently, people have 
tended to focus on cell based mobile stuff and on the fact that wireless 
stuff serves only to connect to the "big" internet. My goal is to 
provide some dns support for different levels of those things, so I am 
proposing tld's to address those:

.wap - single point for access to a complete list of wap's
.cwap - (as you might say "cwap, they want money to connect") This could 
easily be generated from .wap listings, but I wanted to have .cwap and 
.fwap available as pre-packaged compressed files for download.
.fwap - (insert various masturbation follow up jokes here)

.rana - families of related wireless nodes that may or may not be 
permanently connected to the internet.
.adara - detached nodes or networks that are out there but need a 
central repository for discovery

.mesh - the permanently attached presence of a mesh network
.wisp - wireless isp related businesses or individuals. Someone brought 
up the idea of having an isp tld and I don't think it got much response 
- my thinking is that the regular isp's have several central sources for 
discovery http://dslreports.com among others but with wisp's we are just 
at the beginning of that industry and we could get people on board now, 
so that as the industry grows people put their listings in that tld as a 
matter of course. I have a new wisp industry trade association that I 
(Continue reading)

Adam | 5 Feb 02:41 2004
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Re: Proposal for new tlds: .wap .fwap .cwap

> .wap - single point for access to a complete list of wap's

TPR : The PacificRoot : 204.107.129.2
VueDig Results : Answer = 2 : Authority = 0 : Additional = 0.
wap. 1D IN NS denasar.dns2go.com.
wap. 1D IN NS booshel.no-ip.com.

Seems to be taken by PR.

Adam Licata
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Rob | 5 Feb 05:02 2004

Re: Proposal for new tlds: .wap .fwap .cwap

So, if that is true then I guess that kind of undermines the whole process.
If the tld lists at OpenNic and at the Open Root Server Confederation ( ftp://dns.vrx.net/pub/db.root ) aren't complete, then presumably it would be easy for anyone without a process to lay claim to any tld as soon as a discussion begins here [or simply create a wildcard at the root level and respond to all tlds]. That is disappointing since I noticed that many three letter tld's where taken by PR and tried to research the various alternative root listings for any conflict before I made the proposals.

Maybe the process should be that any tld being proposed be listed immediately in the OpenNic root until a vote is taken and then either made permanent or removed based on the vote.

Rob

Adam wrote:
.wap - single point for access to a complete list of wap's
TPR : The PacificRoot : 204.107.129.2 VueDig Results : Answer = 2 : Authority = 0 : Additional = 0. wap. 1D IN NS denasar.dns2go.com. wap. 1D IN NS booshel.no-ip.com. Seems to be taken by PR. Adam Licata
Aaron J. Angel | 5 Feb 02:10 2004

RE: Proposal for new tlds: .wap .fwap .cwap

> Shiwan wrote:
>         .cwap isn't that bad, aside that it sounds like a 
> cute pronounciation of "crap".

Well, now that you put it *that* way, I'm all for .cwap!

>         Aside from what I've mentioned, I think this is a neat idea. 
> Especially using MAC addresses as aliases. It'd probably be 
> good to actually /require/ them, for each access point.

Indeed, in all seriousness, .wap sounds like a nifty idea.  As far as
distinguishing between commercial and open entities, how about we go similar
to some of the ccTLDs, with .co.wap for commercial, .ac.wap for accedemic,
.org.wap for NPOs, etc.  I think that type of chartered namespace would be
the best route.

And the MAC address thing...doesn't make that much sense to me to put it in
the general namespace, but from an organizational perspective, putting it in
the entities registered namespace (oh yes, I'm all for registered
namespaces; a single, big zone makes no sense to me at all) would be a more
sensible idea, though I'd personally do it reverse, have the easily
remembered names point to the MAC address-based names, something like:

wap1.mshome.angel-family.me.wap. IN CNAME
000625d6adf9.mshome.angel-family.me.wap.

Now then, what will be the most interesting aspect, I think, is:

1) how one would store and query location data in the DNS, and

2) perhaps more importantly, once finding a site based on that method, how
would the client determine the parameters required to connect to the AP
(e.g., the SSID, channel, etc.)?  It's all fine and dandy that the end-user
can see that a local AP *exists*, but it's quite another thing to actually
connect to it and use it...

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Mysidia | 5 Feb 07:28 2004
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The member's forum...

Is it down permanently?

Although the page says it's down temporarily, it seems like it's been down
for well over a year.  So the message so far has been demonstrably not true..

The 'FAQ' link on the web site is a broken link and should be
removed, I think 

-Mysid
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tabris | 5 Feb 09:46 2004
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Re: Proposal for new tlds: .wap .fwap .cwap

On Wednesday 04 February 2004 8:41 pm, Adam wrote:
> > .wap - single point for access to a complete list of wap's
>
> TPR : The PacificRoot : 204.107.129.2
> VueDig Results : Answer = 2 : Authority = 0 : Additional = 0.
> wap. 1D IN NS denasar.dns2go.com.
> wap. 1D IN NS booshel.no-ip.com.
>
> Seems to be taken by PR.
>
> Adam Licata
any idea on if they're still developing it? I hear that Pacific Root has
abandoned a few TLDs, and as such those TLDs are dead (such as .biz,
superceded by ICANNs .biz. which I believe OpenNIC still hasn't decided to
peer)
Just kinda hoping for Rob's sake. Tho I know that won't help much.
--
tabris
-
A student, in hopes of understanding the Lambda-nature, came to Greenblatt.
As they spoke a Multics system hacker walked by.  "Is it true", asked the
student, "that PL-1 has many of the same data types as Lisp?"  Almost before
the student had finished his question, Greenblatt shouted, "FOO!", and hit
the student with a stick.

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Adam | 5 Feb 10:16 2004
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Re: Proposal for new tlds: .wap .fwap .cwap

I have a feeling there are a lot of inactive TLDs that are "registered."
For example, last year I tried proposing the .irc TLD but the owner of the
TLD repeatedly claimed that he was going to work on it. I've never seen
any progress on it yet. Perhaps we need a definition of inactive and allow
an exception for this when introducing a colliding TLD.

I also concur with Mysidia, the forum appeared to be toast.

Adam Licata

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, tabris wrote:

> On Wednesday 04 February 2004 8:41 pm, Adam wrote:
> > > .wap - single point for access to a complete list of wap's
> >
> > TPR : The PacificRoot : 204.107.129.2
> > VueDig Results : Answer = 2 : Authority = 0 : Additional = 0.
> > wap. 1D IN NS denasar.dns2go.com.
> > wap. 1D IN NS booshel.no-ip.com.
> >
> > Seems to be taken by PR.
> >
> > Adam Licata
> any idea on if they're still developing it? I hear that Pacific Root has
> abandoned a few TLDs, and as such those TLDs are dead (such as .biz,
> superceded by ICANNs .biz. which I believe OpenNIC still hasn't decided to
> peer)
> Just kinda hoping for Rob's sake. Tho I know that won't help much.
> --
> tabris
> -
> A student, in hopes of understanding the Lambda-nature, came to Greenblatt.
> As they spoke a Multics system hacker walked by.  "Is it true", asked the
> student, "that PL-1 has many of the same data types as Lisp?"  Almost before
> the student had finished his question, Greenblatt shouted, "FOO!", and hit
> the student with a stick.
>
>
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Rob | 5 Feb 10:50 2004

Re: Proposal for new tlds: .wap .fwap .cwap

Aaron J. Angel wrote:

>And the MAC address thing...doesn't make that much sense to me to put it in
>the general namespace, but from an organizational perspective, putting it in
>the entities registered namespace (oh yes, I'm all for registered
>namespaces; a single, big zone makes no sense to me at all) would be a more
>sensible idea, though I'd personally do it reverse, have the easily
>remembered names point to the MAC address-based names, something like:
>
>wap1.mshome.angel-family.me.wap. IN CNAME
>000625d6adf9.mshome.angel-family.me.wap.
>
>
>Now then, what will be the most interesting aspect, I think, is:
>
>1) how one would store and query location data in the DNS, and
>  
>
It would be stored in a database and non-parameterized queries would be 
through a normal dns query, other query mechanisms would be used to find 
a list of entries within a certain bounded area or via other parameters.

>2) perhaps more importantly, once finding a site based on that method, how
>would the client determine the parameters required to connect to the AP
>(e.g., the SSID, channel, etc.)?  It's all fine and dandy that the end-user
>can see that a local AP *exists*, but it's quite another thing to actually
>connect to it and use it...
>  
>
I had planned to have some codified TXT records nominally readable by 
humans and computers:

SSID: DeafDogCoffee
CHAN: 1
STD: 802.11b
FRQ: 2.4 GHz
ICBM: 38.37030,-122.84659
ZIP: 94572

Location coordinates would be encoded using the GeoURL format 
http://geourl.org/ rather than the incompatible RFC 1876 format 
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1876.html.

I have a sample record at 198.144.200.210 (not that it is very exciting)
you can do:

dig ANY wapxample1.deafdog.free.wap  <at> 198.144.200.210
                     or
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/lookup.ch?name=wapxample1.deafdog.free.wap&type=ALL&server=198.144.200.210&detail=0

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Gmane