Chanet Jean-Pierre | 7 Jul 2006 09:41
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Pb with broadcast

Hello,
 
I have a network with 4 WRT54G with freifunk.firmware.
On each router, there is a system which makes UDP broadcast on the LAN.
I install the package bcrelay to forward the broadcast from lan to wifi.
 
All the lan and wifi are in the same network : 10.0.0.x
 
With Ethereal, I see all the message send by OLSR every where in the network.
The route are ok for all router : the maximun number of hop is 3.
 
 
But the udp broadcast are not forward by the router....and i can't see the information broadcast.
 
have you got an idea ?
 
thank you 
 
 

Jean-Pierre Chanet

 
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Henning Wangerin | 7 Jul 2006 11:01
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Problem with multible cells

Hi.

I'm running a olsr-network with 14 wrt54g(s) boxes running freifunk.

After a power-outage my network splitup into two different cells, as a
distant node booted up before it neightburs, resulting i different
BSSIDs.

My network normaly uses 56:D3:B4:6A:46:AB, but sometimes different
values are chosen,

How can I force the BSSID to 56:D3:B4:6A:46:AB on all my nodes, so this
will not happen?

--

-- 
Henning Wangerin <post+050629 <at> henning.wangerin.dk>
Bruno SELVA | 7 Jul 2006 11:46
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Does olsrd support multicast

Hello

I would like to use olsr after a VPN router. So thi one doesn t diffuse broadcast message but support multicast. I would like to know if we can specify a multcast adress in the parameter ip4Broacastadress (ex 224.0.0.1) and in that case does olsrd working correctly

Bruno 

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Dan Flett | 8 Jul 2006 17:16
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When does a node use ARP?

Hi all,

I have a question regarding priorities in routing tables and ARP.

I understand that in a routing table, where entries have overlapping
netmasks, the narrower netmask has priority.  This is often the case with
OLSR where nodes advertise themselves as /32 routes by default, and their
network interfaces have wide netmasks - such as /8 or /16.

I am wondering - can an OLSR node communicate with a one-hop non-OLSR node
if there is a HNA present with a netmask that overlaps the non-OLSR node?

Consider this scenario:
Node A has a wireless interface with the IP address 10.10.0.1/16 and is
running OLSR

Node Z is running OLSR and is injecting a HNA of 10.10.0.0/17 onto the
network and is many hops away from Node A

Node B is has a wireless interface with the IP address of 10.10.0.2/16 and
is within radio range (and therefore Ethernet range), of Node A but does not
run OLSR.

My question is - If Node A, with an empty ARP cache, attempts to communicate
with Node B - what happens?  Normally Node A would send an ARP broadcast and
Node B would answer it.  But does the /17 HNA from Node Z interfere with
this?  Would Node A consult it's routing table and decide that the traffic
should go via Node Z, unaware that Node B is within direct Ethernet range?

Cheers,

Dan
Dan Flett | 8 Jul 2006 17:47
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Selling the idea of OLSR

Hi guys,

I am giving a presentation to my wireless group, Melbourne Wireless, this
Friday on OLSR.  We currently use OSPF and a traditional routed network
where each node has multiple radios, each with a separate /28 subnet.  Most
of our links are point-to-point or point-to-multipoint (client-to-AP).  A
lot of people are very sceptical of the idea of using a /16 netmask on an
interface and of using Omni-to-Omni links.

Here are some of the criticisms I'll need to address:

* Mesh networks are not scalable - they cause too much CPU load on small
routers.

* Omni antennas pick up too much RF noise for usable links

* Omni-to-Omni links have limited range and the population density in
Melbourne is not sufficient for a critical mass to form a useful mesh

* A network where everyone is using a /16 netmask will be like a giant LAN
and everyone will be swamped with everyone else's broadcast traffic

* Using OLSR on every node is like trying to create a city-wide network with
WDS

I think I have answers for most of these questions, but I'd like to get some
ideas from the wider OLSR community.  I'm sure many of you have faced
similar criticisms, and may have some experience behind you to refute these
claims.  If so, I'd love to hear from you!

Regards,

Dan Flett
Secretary
Melbourne Wireless 
Dan Flett | 8 Jul 2006 17:47
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Favicon

Selling the idea of OLSR

Hi guys,

I am giving a presentation to my wireless group, Melbourne Wireless, this
Friday on OLSR.  We currently use OSPF and a traditional routed network
where each node has multiple radios, each with a separate /28 subnet.  Most
of our links are point-to-point or point-to-multipoint (client-to-AP).  A
lot of people are very sceptical of the idea of using a /16 netmask on an
interface and of using Omni-to-Omni links.

Here are some of the criticisms I'll need to address:

* Mesh networks are not scalable - they cause too much CPU load on small
routers.

* Omni antennas pick up too much RF noise for usable links

* Omni-to-Omni links have limited range and the population density in
Melbourne is not sufficient for a critical mass to form a useful mesh

* A network where everyone is using a /16 netmask will be like a giant LAN
and everyone will be swamped with everyone else's broadcast traffic

* Using OLSR on every node is like trying to create a city-wide network with
WDS

I think I have answers for most of these questions, but I'd like to get some
ideas from the wider OLSR community.  I'm sure many of you have faced
similar criticisms, and may have some experience behind you to refute these
claims.  If so, I'd love to hear from you!

Regards,

Dan Flett
Secretary
Melbourne Wireless 
Dan Flett | 8 Jul 2006 17:47
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Favicon

[WLANware] Selling the idea of OLSR

Hi guys,

I am giving a presentation to my wireless group, Melbourne Wireless, this
Friday on OLSR.  We currently use OSPF and a traditional routed network
where each node has multiple radios, each with a separate /28 subnet.  Most
of our links are point-to-point or point-to-multipoint (client-to-AP).  A
lot of people are very sceptical of the idea of using a /16 netmask on an
interface and of using Omni-to-Omni links.

Here are some of the criticisms I'll need to address:

* Mesh networks are not scalable - they cause too much CPU load on small
routers.

* Omni antennas pick up too much RF noise for usable links

* Omni-to-Omni links have limited range and the population density in
Melbourne is not sufficient for a critical mass to form a useful mesh

* A network where everyone is using a /16 netmask will be like a giant LAN
and everyone will be swamped with everyone else's broadcast traffic

* Using OLSR on every node is like trying to create a city-wide network with
WDS

I think I have answers for most of these questions, but I'd like to get some
ideas from the wider OLSR community.  I'm sure many of you have faced
similar criticisms, and may have some experience behind you to refute these
claims.  If so, I'd love to hear from you!

Regards,

Dan Flett
Secretary
Melbourne Wireless 

_______________________________________________
WLANware mailing list
WLANware <at> freifunk.net
https://freifunk.net/mailman/listinfo/wlanware
Aaron Kaplan | 8 Jul 2006 18:01
Gravatar

Re: Selling the idea of OLSR

On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 01:47 +1000, Dan Flett wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> I am giving a presentation to my wireless group, Melbourne Wireless, this
> Friday on OLSR.  We currently use OSPF and a traditional routed network
> where each node has multiple radios, each with a separate /28 subnet.  Most
> of our links are point-to-point or point-to-multipoint (client-to-AP).  A
> lot of people are very sceptical of the idea of using a /16 netmask on an
> interface and of using Omni-to-Omni links.
> 
> Here are some of the criticisms I'll need to address:
> 
> * Mesh networks are not scalable - they cause too much CPU load on small
> routers.

true. but: gradually increase as you go. it works. In Vienna, there are
around 100 olsr devices and berlin has AFAIK 250 (?)
so... you should have some space to grow.

> 
> * Omni antennas pick up too much RF noise for usable links
> 

true, use more directionals in addition

> * Omni-to-Omni links have limited range and the population density in
> Melbourne is not sufficient for a critical mass to form a useful mesh
> 
c.f. above, use more directionals

> * A network where everyone is using a /16 netmask will be like a giant LAN
> and everyone will be swamped with everyone else's broadcast traffic
> 
no, AFAIK not true. You will be swamped by olsr TC messages, but this is
ok since freifunk-olsr included the fish-eye algorithm

> * Using OLSR on every node is like trying to create a city-wide network with
> WDS
> 
wrong. It is more like trying to put routing decisions at every point 
with lots of host routes (which are ok, since your net is limited in
size - host routes would not scale to the whole internet)

> I think I have answers for most of these questions, but I'd like to get some
> ideas from the wider OLSR community.  I'm sure many of you have faced
> similar criticisms, and may have some experience behind you to refute these
> claims.  If so, I'd love to hear from you!
>  

I would be interested in better answers.

best regards,
aaron.

> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dan Flett
> Secretary
> Melbourne Wireless 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> WLANware mailing list
> WLANware@...
> https://freifunk.net/mailman/listinfo/wlanware
> 
Phill Brown | 8 Jul 2006 18:38
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RE: Selling the idea of OLSR

We are utilising olsr on all major points of the network.  The network
consists of approximately 16 main router nodes with dual or quad radio using
traditional routing but using olsr simply for the dynamic table updates, the
multi path functionality, link quality, and the ease of implementation.  The
network was originally and still is a point to point network with client AP
at each point, just with mesh capability.  Now you know my scenario. Ill
answer to the best of my knowledge.

>>Mesh networks are not scalable - they cause too much CPU load on small
routers.
I have not noticed any performace degradation, but then am not running in a
true ad-hoc mesh

>>Omni antennas pick up too much RF noise for usable links
This would be true, since the link could still be usable, just not very
efficient, especially since ad-hoc has to be on the same channel which would
become crowded very quickly?

>>Omni-to-Omni links have limited range and the population density in
Melbourne is not sufficient for a critical mass to form a useful mesh
I am not in melbourne, but due a variety of terrains in such a short
distance here, directionals are required as our local connections are
generally a minimum of 1.5km to 18km backbone links, most being about
approximately 6km distance, which and omni would not reach, and would not
perform very effeciently due to lower gain and rf interference.  All of our
points are beam to beams links with an omni ap at each location

>>A network where everyone is using a /16 netmask will be like a giant LAN
and everyone will be swamped with everyone else's broadcast traffic
On a wired network I would believe so, I would believe so on wireless as
well, but am not sure how olsr affects this

>>Using OLSR on every node is like trying to create a city-wide network with
WDS
I would believe so, but as you can see above, I am not using that model with
olsr.

Hope that helps from my experiences,
Looking forward to other people responces.

Cheers,
Phill

-----Original Message-----
From: olsr-users-bounces <at> olsr.org [mailto:olsr-users-bounces <at> olsr.org] On
Behalf Of Dan Flett
Sent: Sunday, 9 July 2006 1:48 AM
To: wlanware <at> freifunk.net; 'OLSR discussion and development'
Subject: [OLSR-users] Selling the idea of OLSR

Hi guys,

I am giving a presentation to my wireless group, Melbourne Wireless, this
Friday on OLSR.  We currently use OSPF and a traditional routed network
where each node has multiple radios, each with a separate /28 subnet.  Most
of our links are point-to-point or point-to-multipoint (client-to-AP).  A
lot of people are very sceptical of the idea of using a /16 netmask on an
interface and of using Omni-to-Omni links.

Here are some of the criticisms I'll need to address:

* Mesh networks are not scalable - they cause too much CPU load on small
routers.

* Omni antennas pick up too much RF noise for usable links

* Omni-to-Omni links have limited range and the population density in
Melbourne is not sufficient for a critical mass to form a useful mesh

* A network where everyone is using a /16 netmask will be like a giant LAN
and everyone will be swamped with everyone else's broadcast traffic

* Using OLSR on every node is like trying to create a city-wide network with
WDS

I think I have answers for most of these questions, but I'd like to get some
ideas from the wider OLSR community.  I'm sure many of you have faced
similar criticisms, and may have some experience behind you to refute these
claims.  If so, I'd love to hear from you!

Regards,

Dan Flett
Secretary
Melbourne Wireless 

_______________________________________________
olsr-users mailing list
olsr-users <at> olsr.org
https://www.olsr.org/mailman/listinfo/olsr-users
Henning Wangerin | 8 Jul 2006 22:47
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Re: When does a node use ARP?

On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 01:16 +1000, Dan Flett wrote:
> I am wondering - can an OLSR node communicate with a one-hop non-OLSR node
> if there is a HNA present with a netmask that overlaps the non-OLSR node?

Yes, and no HNA is needed if communication is needed when the boxes can
hear them.

I have a WLAN-ip-camera setup with a a.b.c.d/24 address connecting to
one of my nodes at a.b.c.1/16 olsr-network.

If I nedd to be able to contact the camera from elsewhere the camrea
need to be setup with standard gateway to a.b.c.1 _and_ a HNA entry to
a.b.c.d, otherwise the will be do routes to/from the camera.

> Consider this scenario:
> Node A has a wireless interface with the IP address 10.10.0.1/16 and is
> running OLSR
> 
> Node Z is running OLSR and is injecting a HNA of 10.10.0.0/17 onto the
> network and is many hops away from Node A
> 
> Node B is has a wireless interface with the IP address of 10.10.0.2/16 and
> is within radio range (and therefore Ethernet range), of Node A but does not
> run OLSR.
> 
> My question is - If Node A, with an empty ARP cache, attempts to communicate
> with Node B - what happens?  Normally Node A would send an ARP broadcast and
> Node B would answer it.  But does the /17 HNA from Node Z interfere with
> this?  Would Node A consult it's routing table and decide that the traffic
> should go via Node Z, unaware that Node B is within direct Ethernet range?

If there is a route to some IP no arp-request will be sent, as
(logically) the route is already known.

Mixing olsr-nodes and non-olsr-nodes is a real mess.

Especially if the non-olsr-node is expected to do some routing. Again it
can be done by using static routes on (all) the neightbourghs, but it
defeats the automatic route-creation done but olsr.

In my world, I'd only allow end-nodes to be non-olsr, as in my setup
with the camera mentioned above. Under no circumstances would I use
non-olsr-nodes as routers.

I'd doing some experiments with openvpn to connect olsr-islands
together vis open vpn, but all nodes will still be logically routed on
the same 10.128.x.y/16 network. Some WLAN, some ethernet and som
openVPN.

--

-- 
Henning Wangerin <post+050629 <at> henning.wangerin.dk>

Gmane