Darren Douch | 2 Mar 09:28 2008
Picon

Linear logging / media recovery

Presumably lots of people out there use linear logging because it's the
recommended way to operate in 'serious' environments... but how
widespread is the practice of actually performing media recovery?
Obviously we are all just using MQ for items in transit - DB2 is being
used for our database requirements ;) so is media recovery really needed
in the real world, or just in theory?

Cheers
Darren


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Robert Broderick | 2 Mar 13:52 2008
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Re: Linear logging / media recovery

Damn, I am so glad you just asked this. Timing is everything.
 
Just was involved in a migration for a customer. Had to come to Champaign, Il for the weekend. Aside from all the other stuff they upgraded DB2, MQWF, MQ and WMB. In the middle of it the SA running the scripts calls over and sez he has gotten an error code. After some looking it was a case of damaged object. My next question was what logging were they running. He replied Linear, I replied good boy!!! Off we were after one or two commands.
 
This is the third time in my career that I have relied on the fact that there were Linear logs in production.
 
I wonder which side of the fence I sit on with regards to this subject.




Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 08:28:14 +0000
From: douchd-deqWdTs+PzCuvtTkCOosKA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Linear logging / media recovery
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org

.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass EC_body.hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Presumably lots of people out there use linear logging because it's the
recommended way to operate in 'serious' environments... but how
widespread is the practice of actually performing media recovery?
Obviously we are all just using MQ for items in transit - DB2 is being
used for our database requirements ;) so is media recovery really needed
in the real world, or just in theory?

Cheers
Darren


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Darren Douch | 2 Mar 17:29 2008
Picon

Re: Linear logging / media recovery

Aye, but was there anything on that damaged object that needed
recovering, or was it an empty queue that could simply have been deleted
/ redefined? In a 'MQ is not a database' world, surely that would be
the case?

Note I am not arguing one way or the other here... just after honest
opinions either way.

Thanks Bobbee.

Darren.


Robert Broderick wrote:
> Damn, I am so glad you just asked this. Timing is everything.
>
> Just was involved in a migration for a customer. Had to come to
> Champaign, Il for the weekend. Aside from all the other stuff they
> upgraded DB2, MQWF, MQ and WMB. In the middle of it the SA running the
> scripts calls over and sez he has gotten an error code. After some
> looking it was a case of damaged object. My next question was what
> logging were they running. He replied Linear, I replied good boy!!!
> Off we were after one or two commands.
>
> This is the third time in my career that I have relied on the fact
> that there were Linear logs in production.
>
> I wonder which side of the fence I sit on with regards to this subject.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 08:28:14 +0000
> From: douchd-deqWdTs+PzCuvtTkCOosKA@public.gmane.org
> Subject: Linear logging / media recovery
> To: MQSERIES <at> LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT
>
> Presumably lots of people out there use linear logging because
> it's the
> recommended way to operate in 'serious' environments... but how
> widespread is the practice of actually performing media recovery?
> Obviously we are all just using MQ for items in transit - DB2 is
> being
> used for our database requirements ;) so is media recovery really
> needed
> in the real world, or just in theory?
>
> Cheers
> Darren
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Messenger on the move. Text MSN to 63463 now!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> - Manage
> Your List Settings
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Potkay, Peter M (ISD, IT | 2 Mar 19:14 2008

Re: Linear logging / media recovery

 
"If you need to be able to forward recover queue data following a failure or recover from media failure of the device containing the log you must use linear logging if you are dependent on WebSphere MQ to provide this level of protection for you. An alternative strategy is to use disk mirroring to mirror the log device. This is often a facility provided by a SAN. In this case you could use circular logging."
 
 

Peter Potkay

 

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Darren Douch
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 11:29 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

Aye, but was there anything on that damaged object that needed
recovering, or was it an empty queue that could simply have been deleted
/ redefined? In a 'MQ is not a database' world, surely that would be
the case?

Note I am not arguing one way or the other here... just after honest
opinions either way.

Thanks Bobbee.

Darren.


Robert Broderick wrote:
> Damn, I am so glad you just asked this. Timing is everything.
>
> Just was involved in a migration for a customer. Had to come to
> Champaign, Il for the weekend. Aside from all the other stuff they
> upgraded DB2, MQWF, MQ and WMB. In the middle of it the SA running the
> scripts calls over and sez he has gotten an error code. After some
> looking it was a case of damaged object. My next question was what
> logging were they running. He replied Linear, I replied good boy!!!
> Off we were after one or two commands.
>
> This is the third time in my career that I have relied on the fact
> that there were Linear logs in production.
>
> I wonder which side of the fence I sit on with regards to this subject.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 08:28:14 +0000
> From: douchd-deqWdTs+PzCuvtTkCOosKA@public.gmane.org
> Subject: Linear logging / media recovery
> To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
>
> Presumably lots of people out there use linear logging because
> it's the
> recommended way to operate in 'serious' environments... but how
> widespread is the practice of actually performing media recovery?
> Obviously we are all just using MQ for items in transit - DB2 is
> being
> used for our database requirements ;) so is media recovery really
> needed
> in the real world, or just in theory?
>
> Cheers
> Darren
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Messenger on the move. Text MSN to 63463 now!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List Archive
> - Manage
> Your List Settings
> -
> Unsubscribe
>
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> provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at
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Darren Douch | 2 Mar 19:38 2008
Picon

Re: Linear logging / media recovery

Thanks Peter - hadn't seen that article - good to see it all in one place.

Potkay, Peter M (ISD, IT) wrote:
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/websphere/library/techarticles/0712_dunn/0712_dunn.html
>
> "If you need to be able to forward recover queue data following a
> failure or recover from media failure of the device containing the log
> you must use linear logging if you are dependent on WebSphere MQ to
> provide this level of protection for you. An alternative strategy is
> to use disk mirroring to mirror the log device. This is often a
> facility provided by a SAN. In this case you could use circular logging."
>
> *Peter Potkay*
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES <at> LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT] *On
> Behalf Of *Darren Douch
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 02, 2008 11:29 AM
> *To:* MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
> *Subject:* Re: Linear logging / media recovery
>
> Aye, but was there anything on that damaged object that needed
> recovering, or was it an empty queue that could simply have been deleted
> / redefined? In a 'MQ is not a database' world, surely that would be
> the case?
>
> Note I am not arguing one way or the other here... just after honest
> opinions either way.
>
> Thanks Bobbee.
>
> Darren.
>
>
> Robert Broderick wrote:
>> Damn, I am so glad you just asked this. Timing is everything.
>>
>> Just was involved in a migration for a customer. Had to come to
>> Champaign, Il for the weekend. Aside from all the other stuff they
>> upgraded DB2, MQWF, MQ and WMB. In the middle of it the SA running the
>> scripts calls over and sez he has gotten an error code. After some
>> looking it was a case of damaged object. My next question was what
>> logging were they running. He replied Linear, I replied good boy!!!
>> Off we were after one or two commands.
>>
>> This is the third time in my career that I have relied on the fact
>> that there were Linear logs in production.
>>
>> I wonder which side of the fence I sit on with regards to this subject.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 08:28:14 +0000
>> From: douchd-deqWdTs+PzCuvtTkCOosKA@public.gmane.org
>> Subject: Linear logging / media recovery
>> To: MQSERIES <at> LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT
>>
>> Presumably lots of people out there use linear logging because
>> it's the
>> recommended way to operate in 'serious' environments... but how
>> widespread is the practice of actually performing media recovery?
>> Obviously we are all just using MQ for items in transit - DB2 is
>> being
>> used for our database requirements ;) so is media recovery really
>> needed
>> in the real world, or just in theory?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Darren
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Messenger on the move. Text MSN to 63463 now!
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> List Archive
>> - Manage
>> Your List Settings
>> -
>> Unsubscribe
>>
>> Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are
>> provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at
>> http://www.lsoft.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now!
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> List Archive
>> - Manage Your List Settings
>> -
>> Unsubscribe
>>
>>
>>
>> Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided
>> in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
>>
>>
>
>
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Jim Nuckolls | 3 Mar 04:25 2008
Picon
Picon

Re: Linear logging / media recovery

Here’s what happened to me 6 years ago on a system I had configured to use linear logging. It could have been a defect for all I know since I never pursued it. I was running the linear log clean-up script and a rcdmqimg script as cron jobs on AIX. The object that had become corrupted was a queue that was not touched over a very long interval. When it was finally accessed and MQ informed me that it was corrupted I attempted a recovery. The recovery image was also corrupted. I had to delete and redefine the object. That experience certainly “tainted” my once “pure” opinion of linear logging. I now tend to think it is a lot of additional effort for something that may or may not work depending on how the planets are aligned and whether or not someone waved some magic feathers in the direction of the shared disk facility. Perhaps a bit of over dramatization, but, it underscores the fact that you should have a “worst case” process in place in case you need it.

 

Maybe someone in Hursley would care to comment on the scenario I just described.

 

Cheers...

Jim Nuckolls

Enterprise Systems Integration

 

-----Original Message-----
From:
MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Potkay, Peter M (ISD, IT)
Sent:
Sunday, March 02, 2008 11:15 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

 

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/websphere/library/techarticles/0712_dunn/0712_dunn.html

 

"If you need to be able to forward recover queue data following a failure or recover from media failure of the device containing the log you must use linear logging if you are dependent on WebSphere MQ to provide this level of protection for you. An alternative strategy is to use disk mirroring to mirror the log device. This is often a facility provided by a SAN. In this case you could use circular logging."

 

 

Peter Potkay

 

 

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Darren Douch
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 11:29 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

Aye, but was there anything on that damaged object that needed
recovering, or was it an empty queue that could simply have been deleted
/ redefined? In a 'MQ is not a database' world, surely that would be
the case?

Note I am not arguing one way or the other here... just after honest
opinions either way.

Thanks Bobbee.

Darren.


Robert Broderick wrote:
> Damn, I am so glad you just asked this. Timing is everything.
>
> Just was involved in a migration for a customer. Had to come to
> Champaign, Il for the weekend. Aside from all the other stuff they
> upgraded DB2, MQWF, MQ and WMB. In the middle of it the SA running the
> scripts calls over and sez he has gotten an error code. After some
> looking it was a case of damaged object. My next question was what
> logging were they running. He replied Linear, I replied good boy!!!
> Off we were after one or two commands.
>
> This is the third time in my career that I have relied on the fact
> that there were Linear logs in production.
>
> I wonder which side of the fence I sit on with regards to this subject.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 08:28:14 +0000
> From: douchd-deqWdTs+PzCuvtTkCOosKA@public.gmane.org
> Subject: Linear logging / media recovery
> To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
>
> Presumably lots of people out there use linear logging because
> it's the
> recommended way to operate in 'serious' environments... but how
> widespread is the practice of actually performing media recovery?
> Obviously we are all just using MQ for items in transit - DB2 is
> being
> used for our database requirements ;) so is media recovery really
> needed
> in the real world, or just in theory?
>
> Cheers
> Darren
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Messenger on the move. Text MSN to 63463 now!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List Archive
> - Manage
> Your List Settings
> -
> Unsubscribe
>
> Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are
> provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at
> http://www.lsoft.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List Archive
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> -
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>
>
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>

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strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and
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Potkay, Peter M (ISD, IT | 3 Mar 16:30 2008

Re: Linear logging / media recovery

I for one am glad to see them say its OK to use circular in that article. If one uses linear logging for media recovery in case the q files get damaged, I guess the assumption is that the log files are on disks that somehow are more reliable than the disks that the q files are on. But if both q files and log files are on RAID-ed SAN (even though at the server level they might be / should be on separate mount points) is that really the case? Its even possible that the volumes on the SAN frames used for the q files are the same as the volumes used for the log files. If you can trust the storage to make sure the log files don't get corrupted why can't you trust the q files the same way and just use circular?
 
Is linear logging a throwback to the days when media was a lot less reliable?
 
I've dealt with damaged q objects once a few years ago. It was a transmit q. We just defined a new one (new name) and repointed the channel and the remote queue defs to use the new one until that night when we deleted the original damaged XMITQ and recreated it, then bounced the QM.
 
I don't understand why media recovery can't be possible in Circular logs. I'm sure there are technical details under the covers which prevent it in the current implementation. But if active UOWs can only span the total number of Primary / Secondary logs regardless of whether you have Circular or Linear, why can't a QM with circular logging just issue rcdmqimg itself under the covers periodically and thus have the info needed for media recovery inside the circular logs?
 

Peter Potkay

 

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jim Nuckolls
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:26 PM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

Here’s what happened to me 6 years ago on a system I had configured to use linear logging. It could have been a defect for all I know since I never pursued it. I was running the linear log clean-up script and a rcdmqimg script as cron jobs on AIX. The object that had become corrupted was a queue that was not touched over a very long interval. When it was finally accessed and MQ informed me that it was corrupted I attempted a recovery. The recovery image was also corrupted. I had to delete and redefine the object. That experience certainly “tainted” my once “pure” opinion of linear logging. I now tend to think it is a lot of additional effort for something that may or may not work depending on how the planets are aligned and whether or not someone waved some magic feathers in the direction of the shared disk facility. Perhaps a bit of over dramatization, but, it underscores the fact that you should have a “worst case” process in place in case you need it.

 

Maybe someone in Hursley would care to comment on the scenario I just described.

 

Cheers...

Jim Nuckolls

Enterprise Systems Integration

 

-----Original Message-----
From:
MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Potkay, Peter M (ISD, IT)
Sent:
Sunday, March 02, 2008 11:15 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

 

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/websphere/library/techarticles/0712_dunn/0712_dunn.html

 

"If you need to be able to forward recover queue data following a failure or recover from media failure of the device containing the log you must use linear logging if you are dependent on WebSphere MQ to provide this level of protection for you. An alternative strategy is to use disk mirroring to mirror the log device. This is often a facility provided by a SAN. In this case you could use circular logging."

 

 

Peter Potkay

 

 

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Darren Douch
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 11:29 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

Aye, but was there anything on that damaged object that needed
recovering, or was it an empty queue that could simply have been deleted
/ redefined? In a 'MQ is not a database' world, surely that would be
the case?

Note I am not arguing one way or the other here... just after honest
opinions either way.

Thanks Bobbee.

Darren.


Robert Broderick wrote:
> Damn, I am so glad you just asked this. Timing is everything.
>
> Just was involved in a migration for a customer. Had to come to
> Champaign, Il for the weekend. Aside from all the other stuff they
> upgraded DB2, MQWF, MQ and WMB. In the middle of it the SA running the
> scripts calls over and sez he has gotten an error code. After some
> looking it was a case of damaged object. My next question was what
> logging were they running. He replied Linear, I replied good boy!!!
> Off we were after one or two commands.
>
> This is the third time in my career that I have relied on the fact
> that there were Linear logs in production.
>
> I wonder which side of the fence I sit on with regards to this subject.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 08:28:14 +0000
> From: douchd-deqWdTs+PzCuvtTkCOosKA@public.gmane.org
> Subject: Linear logging / media recovery
> To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
>
> Presumably lots of people out there use linear logging because
> it's the
> recommended way to operate in 'serious' environments... but how
> widespread is the practice of actually performing media recovery?
> Obviously we are all just using MQ for items in transit - DB2 is
> being
> used for our database requirements ;) so is media recovery really
> needed
> in the real world, or just in theory?
>
> Cheers
> Darren
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Messenger on the move. Text MSN to 63463 now!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List Archive
> - Manage
> Your List Settings
> -
> Unsubscribe
>
> Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are
> provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at
> http://www.lsoft.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List Archive
> - Manage Your List Settings
> -
> Unsubscribe
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>
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for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary,
confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is
strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and
destroy all copies.
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Hond de, R (Raymond | 3 Mar 17:17 2008

message encryption on queue

Hi,
 
Does anybody know if there is a tool for message encryption on MQ queus other then TAMBI?
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Raymond

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Potkay, Peter M (ISD, IT)
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 4:31 PM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

I for one am glad to see them say its OK to use circular in that article. If one uses linear logging for media recovery in case the q files get damaged, I guess the assumption is that the log files are on disks that somehow are more reliable than the disks that the q files are on. But if both q files and log files are on RAID-ed SAN (even though at the server level they might be / should be on separate mount points) is that really the case? Its even possible that the volumes on the SAN frames used for the q files are the same as the volumes used for the log files. If you can trust the storage to make sure the log files don't get corrupted why can't you trust the q files the same way and just use circular?
 
Is linear logging a throwback to the days when media was a lot less reliable?
 
I've dealt with damaged q objects once a few years ago. It was a transmit q. We just defined a new one (new name) and repointed the channel and the remote queue defs to use the new one until that night when we deleted the original damaged XMITQ and recreated it, then bounced the QM.
 
I don't understand why media recovery can't be possible in Circular logs. I'm sure there are technical details under the covers which prevent it in the current implementation. But if active UOWs can only span the total number of Primary / Secondary logs regardless of whether you have Circular or Linear, why can't a QM with circular logging just issue rcdmqimg itself under the covers periodically and thus have the info needed for media recovery inside the circular logs?
 

Peter Potkay

 

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jim Nuckolls
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:26 PM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

Here’s what happened to me 6 years ago on a system I had configured to use linear logging. It could have been a defect for all I know since I never pursued it. I was running the linear log clean-up script and a rcdmqimg script as cron jobs on AIX. The object that had become corrupted was a queue that was not touched over a very long interval. When it was finally accessed and MQ informed me that it was corrupted I attempted a recovery. The recovery image was also corrupted. I had to delete and redefine the object. That experience certainly “tainted” my once “pure” opinion of linear logging. I now tend to think it is a lot of additional effort for something that may or may not work depending on how the planets are aligned and whether or not someone waved some magic feathers in the direction of the shared disk facility. Perhaps a bit of over dramatization, but, it underscores the fact that you should have a “worst case” process in place in case you need it.

 

Maybe someone in Hursley would care to comment on the scenario I just described.

 

Cheers...

Jim Nuckolls

Enterprise Systems Integration

 

-----Original Message-----
From:
MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Potkay, Peter M (ISD, IT)
Sent:
Sunday, March 02, 2008 11:15 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

 

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/websphere/library/techarticles/0712_dunn/0712_dunn.html

 

"If you need to be able to forward recover queue data following a failure or recover from media failure of the device containing the log you must use linear logging if you are dependent on WebSphere MQ to provide this level of protection for you. An alternative strategy is to use disk mirroring to mirror the log device. This is often a facility provided by a SAN. In this case you could use circular logging."

 

 

Peter Potkay

 

 

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Darren Douch
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 11:29 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

Aye, but was there anything on that damaged object that needed
recovering, or was it an empty queue that could simply have been deleted
/ redefined? In a 'MQ is not a database' world, surely that would be
the case?

Note I am not arguing one way or the other here... just after honest
opinions either way.

Thanks Bobbee.

Darren.


Robert Broderick wrote:
> Damn, I am so glad you just asked this. Timing is everything.
>
> Just was involved in a migration for a customer. Had to come to
> Champaign, Il for the weekend. Aside from all the other stuff they
> upgraded DB2, MQWF, MQ and WMB. In the middle of it the SA running the
> scripts calls over and sez he has gotten an error code. After some
> looking it was a case of damaged object. My next question was what
> logging were they running. He replied Linear, I replied good boy!!!
> Off we were after one or two commands.
>
> This is the third time in my career that I have relied on the fact
> that there were Linear logs in production.
>
> I wonder which side of the fence I sit on with regards to this subject.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 08:28:14 +0000
> From: douchd-deqWdTs+PzCuvtTkCOosKA@public.gmane.org
> Subject: Linear logging / media recovery
> To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
>
> Presumably lots of people out there use linear logging because
> it's the
> recommended way to operate in 'serious' environments... but how
> widespread is the practice of actually performing media recovery?
> Obviously we are all just using MQ for items in transit - DB2 is
> being
> used for our database requirements ;) so is media recovery really
> needed
> in the real world, or just in theory?
>
> Cheers
> Darren
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Messenger on the move. Text MSN to 63463 now!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List Archive
> - Manage
> Your List Settings
> -
> Unsubscribe
>
> Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are
> provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at
> http://www.lsoft.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> - Manage Your List Settings
> -
> Unsubscribe
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>
>
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List Archive - Manage Your List Settings - Unsubscribe

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This email (including any attachments to it) is confidential, legally privileged, subject to copyright and is sent for the personal attention of the intended recipient only. If you have received this email in error, please advise us immediately and delete it. You are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. Although we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, we cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the viruses in this email or attachments. We exclude any liability for the content of this email, or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information provided in this email or its attachments, unless that information is subsequently confirmed in writing. If this email contains an offer, that should be considered as an invitation to treat.
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Roger Lacroix | 3 Mar 17:29 2008

Re: message encryption on queue

Hello Raymond,

From my MQ Commercial Tools web page at:
http://www.capitalware.biz/mq_tools_comm.html

There are 2 other products that do message encryption:

- Capitalware's MQ Instant Secure Data
http://www.capitalware.biz/mqisd_overview.html

- Primeur's SPAZIO DATA Secure for WMQ
http://www.primeur.com/products/data_security/spazio_data_secure.php


Hope that helps.

Regards,
Roger Lacroix
Capitalware Inc.
http://www.capitalware.biz


At 11:17 AM 03/03/08, you wrote:
Hi,
 
Does anybody know if there is a tool for message encryption on MQ queus other then TAMBI?
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Raymond

From: MQSeries List [ mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Potkay, Peter M (ISD, IT)
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 4:31 PM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

I for one am glad to see them say its OK to use circular in that article. If one uses linear logging for media recovery in case the q files get damaged, I guess the assumption is that the log files are on disks that somehow are more reliable than the disks that the q files are on. But if both q files and log files are on RAID-ed SAN (even though at the server level they might be / should be on separate mount points) is that really the case? Its even possible that the volumes on the SAN frames used for the q files are the same as the volumes used for the log files. If you can trust the storage to make sure the log files don't get corrupted why can't you trust the q files the same way and just use circular?
 
Is linear logging a throwback to the days when media was a lot less reliable?
 
I've dealt with damaged q objects once a few years ago. It was a transmit q. We just defined a new one (new name) and repointed the channel and the remote queue defs to use the new one until that night when we deleted the original damaged XMITQ and recreated it, then bounced the QM.
 
I don't understand why media recovery can't be possible in Circular logs. I'm sure there are technical details under the covers which prevent it in the current implementation. But if active UOWs can only span the total number of Primary / Secondary logs regardless of whether you have Circular or Linear, why can't a QM with circular logging just issue rcdmqimg itself under the covers periodically and thus have the info needed for media recovery inside the circular logs?
 

Peter Potkay
 

From: MQSeries List [ mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jim Nuckolls
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:26 PM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

Here’s what happened to me 6 years ago on a system I had configured to use linear logging. It could have been a defect for all I know since I never pursued it. I was running the linear log clean-up script and a rcdmqimg script as cron jobs on AIX. The object that had become corrupted was a queue that was not touched over a very long interval. When it was finally accessed and MQ informed me that it was corrupted I attempted a recovery. The recovery image was also corrupted. I had to delete and redefine the object. That experience certainly “tainted” my once “pure” opinion of linear logging. I now tend to think it is a lot of additional effort for something that may or may not work depending on how the planets are aligned and whether or not someone waved some magic feathers in the direction of the shared disk facility. Perhaps a bit of over dramatization, but, it underscores the fact that you should have a “worst case” process in place in case you need it.

 

Maybe someone in Hursley would care to comment on the scenario I just described.

 

Cheers...

Jim Nuckolls

Enterprise Systems Integration

 

-----Original Message-----
From: MQSeries List [ mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Potkay, Peter M (ISD, IT)
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 11:15 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

 

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/websphere/library/techarticles/0712_dunn/0712_dunn.html

 

"If you need to be able to forward recover queue data following a failure or recover from media failure of the device containing the log you must use linear logging if you are dependent on WebSphere MQ to provide this level of protection for you. An alternative strategy is to use disk mirroring to mirror the log device. This is often a facility provided by a SAN. In this case you could use circular logging."

 

 

Peter Potkay

 

 
From: MQSeries List [ mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Darren Douch
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 11:29 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Linear logging / media recovery

Aye, but was there anything on that damaged object that needed
recovering, or was it an empty queue that could simply have been deleted
/ redefined? In a 'MQ is not a database' world, surely that would be
the case?

Note I am not arguing one way or the other here... just after honest
opinions either way.

Thanks Bobbee.

Darren.


Robert Broderick wrote:
> Damn, I am so glad you just asked this. Timing is everything.
>
> Just was involved in a migration for a customer. Had to come to
> Champaign, Il for the weekend. Aside from all the other stuff they
> upgraded DB2, MQWF, MQ and WMB. In the middle of it the SA running the
> scripts calls over and sez he has gotten an error code. After some
> looking it was a case of damaged object. My next question was what
> logging were they running. He replied Linear, I replied good boy!!!
> Off we were after one or two commands.
>
> This is the third time in my career that I have relied on the fact
> that there were Linear logs in production.
>
> I wonder which side of the fence I sit on with regards to this subject.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 08:28:14 +0000
> From: douchd-deqWdTs+PzCuvtTkCOosKA@public.gmane.org
> Subject: Linear logging / media recovery
> To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
>
> Presumably lots of people out there use linear logging because
> it's the
> recommended way to operate in 'serious' environments... but how
> widespread is the practice of actually performing media recovery?
> Obviously we are all just using MQ for items in transit - DB2 is
> being
> used for our database requirements ;) so is media recovery really
> needed
> in the real world, or just in theory?
>
> Cheers
> Darren
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Messenger on the move. Text MSN to 63463 now!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List Archive
> - Manage
> Your List Settings
> -
> Unsubscribe
>
> Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are
> provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at
> http://www.lsoft.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List Archive
> - Manage Your List Settings
> -
> Unsubscribe
>
>
>
> Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided
> in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
>
>

She said what? About who? Shameful celebrity quotes on Search Star!

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com



*************************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is
for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary,
confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is
strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and
destroy all copies.
*************************************************************************

List Archive - Manage Your List Settings - Unsubscribe

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com

List Archive - Manage Your List Settings - Unsubscribe

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com

List Archive - Manage Your List Settings - Unsubscribe

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com

This email (including any attachments to it) is confidential, legally privileged, subject to copyright and is sent for the personal attention of the intended recipient only. If you have received this email in error, please advise us immediately and delete it. You are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. Although we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, we cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the viruses in this email or attachments. We exclude any liability for the content of this email, or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information provided in this email or its attachments, unless that information is subsequently confirmed in writing. If this email contains an offer, that should be considered as an invitation to treat.

Potkay, Peter M (ISD, IT | 3 Mar 17:31 2008

Re: message encryption on queue

 
 
"The MQ Instant Secure Data v1.0.0 (MQISD) is a new solution that provides encryption for MQ message data. In cryptography, encryption is the process of transforming information into an unreadable form (encrypted data). Decryption is the reverse process. It makes the encrypted information readable again. Only those with the key (PassPhrase) can successfully decrypt the encrypted data.

MQISD is a solution that allows a company to encrypt message data, which flows between WebSphere MQ (WMQ) resources. MQISD operates with WMQ v5.3 or v6.0 (and MQSeries v5.2) in Windows, Unix and Linux environments. It operates with Sender, Receiver, Server, Requestor, Cluster-Sender, Cluster-Receiver, Server Connection and Client Connection channels of the WMQ queue managers.

MQISD is a simple drop-in solution that provides cryptographic protection for WMQ queue managers. The protection can be Node-to-Node or End-to-End.

  • Node-to-Node protection means all messages flowing over a channel between 2 queue managers will be encrypted.
  • End-to-End protection means application-level message data flowing between 2 WMQ Client applications will be encrypted.

The MQISD solution can be configured as a queue manager channel message exit or as a channel sender/receive exit pair.

MQISD uses TEA Variant to encrypt the data. The TEA Variant is a fast block cipher algorithm with a 128-bit key. The algorithm is simple, fast and secure."

 

Peter Potkay

 

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Hond de, R (Raymond)
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:18 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+2wyY2g16FtwPuJ0ROkVbw@public.gmane.org
Subject: message encryption on queue

Hi,
 
Does anybody know if there is a tool for message encryption on MQ queus other then TAMBI?
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Raymond

are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com


*************************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is
for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary,
confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is
strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and
destroy all copies.
*************************************************************************

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