Dirk Bruere | 9 Oct 16:34 2011
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One click solution

Hi

I am involved in a Zero State:
http://zerostate.net

Given that what we talk about, and intend to do, is not legal in
several jurisdictions and that we have an international membership I
have been thinking about the possibility of a Freenet based ZS
intranet.
However, the problem that hit several of us almost instantly was that
people have to be quite technically knowledgeable to set it up
correctly, and we cannot depend on every member having the necessary
skills, or time.

What I am looking for is a one click solution ie someone goes to our
site, click a link, and then if they approve the installation it all
goes ahead with a browser icon on the desktop for them to log in to
our site on Freenet.
So, they need know nothing about node IDs,  security levels etc

Does anything like this exist?

Dirk
--

-- 
Homepage: www.neopax.com/technomage - Technology and magick
Volodya | 9 Oct 18:03 2011

Re: One click solution


On 10/09/2011 06:34 PM, Dirk Bruere wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I am involved in a Zero State:
> http://zerostate.net
> 
> Given that what we talk about, and intend to do, is not legal in
> several jurisdictions and that we have an international membership I
> have been thinking about the possibility of a Freenet based ZS
> intranet.
> However, the problem that hit several of us almost instantly was that
> people have to be quite technically knowledgeable to set it up
> correctly, and we cannot depend on every member having the necessary
> skills, or time.
> 
> What I am looking for is a one click solution ie someone goes to our
> site, click a link, and then if they approve the installation it all
> goes ahead with a browser icon on the desktop for them to log in to
> our site on Freenet.
> So, they need know nothing about node IDs,  security levels etc
> 
> Does anything like this exist?
> 
> Dirk

I think that's not the best course of action to have a one click solution for
Freenet. People do need to understand what they are doing, otherwise they may
have a false sense of security. And if you just do the maximum security, then
you'll have an issue of them having to get a master password, etc. Which is not
(Continue reading)

Arne Babenhauserheide | 9 Oct 18:30 2011
Picon

Re: One click solution

Am Sonntag, 9. Oktober 2011, 20:03:37 schrieb Volodya:
> On 10/09/2011 06:34 PM, Dirk Bruere wrote:
> > What I am looking for is a one click solution ie someone goes to our
> > site, click a link, and then if they approve the installation it all
> > goes ahead with a browser icon on the desktop for them to log in to
> > our site on Freenet.
> > So, they need know nothing about node IDs,  security levels etc
> > 
> > Does anything like this exist?

> I think that's not the best course of action to have a one click solution
> for Freenet. People do need to understand what they are doing, otherwise
> they may have a false sense of security. 

They are about as secure as with Tor when you use medium security (no master 
password, data encrypted but on-disk). 

And essentially, yes. Freenet is one-click (though it’s a bit slow at the 
beginning), if you change the defaults to have opennet enabled - and replace 
the default bookmarks with your site. 

It even offers Java WebStart. 

It’s not completely polished yet, though, when it comes to having an 
interactive community. Static sites are there, and we have distributed 
anonymous forums. But the forums aren’t completely integrated, yet, and need 
some work for better performance¹. 

My vision the future of Freenet: Get the ID at startup, so you can enter the 
forums without any further configuration:
(Continue reading)

Matthew Toseland | 10 Oct 13:11 2011
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Re: Some interesting ExtraInsertsSingleBlock data (from pre-1404)

On Wednesday 21 Sep 2011 20:58:44 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> From FMS:
> 
> ExtraInsertsSingleBlock 
> 
> Sadao <at> JXXNvLaHdNMysx7GmY5~L4aCoMuQV85oJM9OIqhkTR8 wrote :
> > 
> > 600 random files of size <32KB were inserted as CHK (compression=off, 
> > metadata=on, 2 blocks in total) running build 1403 (NLM=on, AIMD=off) 
> > and fetched 7 days later running build 1404. Here are the results:
> > 
> > EISB   Stuck files   Stick ratio
> >   00       81/100         81%
> >   02       12/100         12%
> >   05        2/100          2%
> >   08        0/100          0%
> >   11        0/100          0%
> >   14        0/100          0%
> > 
> > Maybe I should choose more small EISBs with lesser step between them, 
> > i.e. EISB=0,1,2,3,4,5,6, and to repeat the test in build 1404, that is 
> > definitely better than the previous one. But 12% stuck files with 
> > EISB=02 (default Freenet setting) is too much in my opinion.
> 

Some really interesting new data showing that 2 extra-inserts works well but is absolutely vital, and some
analysis from me.

Sadao <at> JXXNvLaHdNMysx7GmY5~L4aCoMuQV85oJM9OIqhkTR8 wrote :

(Continue reading)

Matthew Toseland | 11 Oct 00:11 2011
Picon

Re: One click solution

On Sunday 09 Oct 2011 15:34:31 Dirk Bruere wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I am involved in a Zero State:
> http://zerostate.net
> 
> Given that what we talk about, and intend to do, is not legal in
> several jurisdictions and that we have an international membership I
> have been thinking about the possibility of a Freenet based ZS
> intranet.
> However, the problem that hit several of us almost instantly was that
> people have to be quite technically knowledgeable to set it up
> correctly, and we cannot depend on every member having the necessary
> skills, or time.
> 
> What I am looking for is a one click solution ie someone goes to our
> site, click a link, and then if they approve the installation it all
> goes ahead with a browser icon on the desktop for them to log in to
> our site on Freenet.
> So, they need know nothing about node IDs,  security levels etc
> 
> Does anything like this exist?

Okay, the basic obstacles here:

1. If people are expecting to have their computers seized, it is essential to encrypt Freenet, encrypt
anything downloaded from Freenet, encrypt media files stored on the hard disk, encrypt swap etc. This is
somewhat nontrivial to do automatically and quickly, although bundling a browser can solve some of the
problems, and it is possible on recent windows's to turn on swap encryption quickly and easily.

(Continue reading)

Ian Clarke | 14 Oct 23:38 2011
Picon

Re: Some interesting ExtraInsertsSingleBlock data (from pre-1404)

That is interesting, but what would be even more interesting is understanding *why* this is...


Ian.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 6:11 AM, Matthew Toseland <toad-EI5O+8PHWbJeeLb3ft/vUmD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org> wrote:
On Wednesday 21 Sep 2011 20:58:44 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> From FMS:
>
> ExtraInsertsSingleBlock
>
> Sadao <at> JXXNvLaHdNMysx7GmY5~L4aCoMuQV85oJM9OIqhkTR8 wrote :
> >
> > 600 random files of size <32KB were inserted as CHK (compression=off,
> > metadata=on, 2 blocks in total) running build 1403 (NLM=on, AIMD=off)
> > and fetched 7 days later running build 1404. Here are the results:
> >
> > EISB   Stuck files   Stick ratio
> >   00       81/100         81%
> >   02       12/100         12%
> >   05        2/100          2%
> >   08        0/100          0%
> >   11        0/100          0%
> >   14        0/100          0%
> >
> > Maybe I should choose more small EISBs with lesser step between them,
> > i.e. EISB=0,1,2,3,4,5,6, and to repeat the test in build 1404, that is
> > definitely better than the previous one. But 12% stuck files with
> > EISB=02 (default Freenet setting) is too much in my opinion.
>

Some really interesting new data showing that 2 extra-inserts works well but is absolutely vital, and some analysis from me.

Sadao <at> JXXNvLaHdNMysx7GmY5~L4aCoMuQV85oJM9OIqhkTR8 wrote :

> I repeated the experiment on build 1404 with the same conditions but
> with different values of EISB. I inserted files on weekend and fetched
> them 10 days later on weekdays to see if that affects anything. I let
> the files to be fetched for about 8 hours and was changing their
> priority from time to time. Here are the results:
>
> EISB   Stuck files   Stuck ratio
>   00       38/100         38%
>   01       20/100         20%
>   02        4/100          4%
>   03        3/100          3%
>   04        1/100          1%
>   05        4/100          4%
>   06        1/100          1%
>
> I expected to see linear dependence but there is a jump between EISB=01
> and EISB=02. It's strange for me. Anyway, EISB=02 is optimal for good
> freenet builds like 1404. But I still think that EISB=05 makes sense for
> poor builds like 1403.

Now that's more like it! :)

Thanks for the very encouraging statistics!

Load management improvements should EVENTUALLY improve this further, reducing the need for extra inserts:
- Smoother fair sharing in preemptive rejections.
- Sending the slow-down signal back to the AIMDs *before* we start rejecting stuff.
- Possibly some queueing, provided we separate load management for SSKs from that for CHKs first to decouple the feedback loops and therefore the queueing times.

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Personal blog: http://blog.locut.us/
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Tanya Pyatigorskaya | 16 Oct 21:58 2011
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Filesharing application for Freenet

Hi guys,

I would like to say hello to all of you after my rather long absence. I have been working on the task "filesharing application for freenet" due gsoc 2010. Than I had to postpone my Freenet activities due to personal circumstances. Now I am back, and I am happy to be able to continue my work on my Freenet task. This application allows

- select files/directories to be shared and tag them for search;

- search file indexes published by other users (effectively view of WoT filtered by filesharing context);

- manage trust settings for other user identities (using WoT).

Since I was out of the day-to-day work in the community for quite a long period of time, what I need now is to become up to date and to join efficient development ASAP. May I ask you to let me know whether this task is still interesting for Freenet? Which details of the task should I consider to be of most help? Who is working on something similar, and whom should I contact to combine our efforts for quicker and better results? Certainly I would be grateful for any other relative suggestions, advices and considerations.

Thank you very much for your time!   

Best regards,
Tatyana Pyatigorskaya aka nikotyan


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Arne Babenhauserheide | 16 Oct 22:19 2011
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Re: Filesharing application for Freenet

Am Sonntag, 16. Oktober 2011, 23:58:13 schrieb Tanya Pyatigorskaya:
> Now I am back, and I am happy to be able to continue my work
> on my Freenet task. 

Welcome back!

> Since I was out of the day-to-day work in the community for quite a long
> period of time, what I need now is to become up to date and to join
> efficient development ASAP. May I ask you to let me know whether this task
> is still interesting for Freenet? 

Hell yes! 

> Who is working on something similar, and whom
> should I contact to combine our efforts for quicker and better results?

What would overally be most interesting (I think) is integration of uploads 
with Freetalk and Sone: Write a post with attached files. The files then get 
uploaded and as soon as they are done, the post gets published. 

What I myself need the most is: Select 30 files and have them put into the 
upload queue 3-5 at a time. Followed automatically by a post in Freetalk *and* 
Sone with the files at the end of the post. 

All that as Freenet plugin, integrated into the web interface. 

What I don’t need yet is searching. Once we have enough material, it would be 
cool, though. 

Best wishes, 
Arne
--
Ich hab' nichts zu verbergen – hab ich gedacht: 

- http://draketo.de/licht/lieder/ich-hab-nichts-zu-verbergen

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Matthew Toseland | 17 Oct 00:25 2011
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Re: Filesharing application for Freenet

On Sunday 16 Oct 2011 20:58:13 Tanya Pyatigorskaya wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> I would like to say hello to all of you after my rather long absence. I have
> been working on the task "filesharing application for freenet" due gsoc
> 2010. Than I had to postpone my Freenet activities due to personal
> circumstances. Now I am back, and I am happy to be able to continue my work
> on my Freenet task. This application allows
> 
> - select files/directories to be shared and tag them for search;
> 
> - search file indexes published by other users (effectively view of WoT
> filtered by filesharing context);
> - manage trust settings for other user identities (using WoT).
> 
> Since I was out of the day-to-day work in the community for quite a long
> period of time, what I need now is to become up to date and to join
> efficient development ASAP. May I ask you to let me know whether this task
> is still interesting for Freenet? Which details of the task should I
> consider to be of most help? Who is working on something similar, and whom
> should I contact to combine our efforts for quicker and better results?
> Certainly I would be grateful for any other relative suggestions, advices
> and considerations.
> 
> Thank you very much for your time!
> 
> Best regards,
> Tatyana Pyatigorskaya aka nikotyan
> 
It is undoubtedly interesting, please press on!

My view is that insert-on-demand isn't all that urgent, and when you do do it you'll need to be rather careful
with it for security reasons. On the other hand, data persistence is less than perfect and filesharers
habitually reinsert so you'll need something eventually.

But maintaining an index of your files and searching others' indexes is core functionality. There are ways
to optimise it quite dramatically, e.g. fetching the top and bloom filters for each identity, but these
can wait if need be. The other core issue is how to handle spam/poisoning attacks - the WoT should make this
easy, but you will need to provide UI. It looks like you're on top of all these issues, so I wish you every
possible luck!

My own involvement in Freenet at the moment is rather limited at the moment due to academic commitments, but
hope to see you around!
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Matthew Toseland | 17 Oct 00:28 2011
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Re: Some interesting ExtraInsertsSingleBlock data (from pre-1404)

On Friday 14 Oct 2011 22:38:46 Ian Clarke wrote:
> That is interesting, but what would be even more interesting is
> understanding *why* this is...

IMHO the range of possible hypotheses is quite limited, mainly because inserts are always routed the same
way (unlike requests, which can be redirected after a failure). This implies that the data is not
reaching, or being accepted by, all the nodes it needs to reach. The solution is to fix load management so
there are fewer rejections - or failing that, to prioritise inserts, but IMHO there are better ways than that.

Unless you have some suggestions for specific experiments to clarify the situation?
> 
> Ian.
> 
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 6:11 AM, Matthew Toseland <toad@...org
> > wrote:
> 
> > On Wednesday 21 Sep 2011 20:58:44 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > > From FMS:
> > >
> > > ExtraInsertsSingleBlock
> > >
> > > Sadao <at> JXXNvLaHdNMysx7GmY5~L4aCoMuQV85oJM9OIqhkTR8 wrote :
> > > >
> > > > 600 random files of size <32KB were inserted as CHK (compression=off,
> > > > metadata=on, 2 blocks in total) running build 1403 (NLM=on, AIMD=off)
> > > > and fetched 7 days later running build 1404. Here are the results:
> > > >
> > > > EISB   Stuck files   Stick ratio
> > > >   00       81/100         81%
> > > >   02       12/100         12%
> > > >   05        2/100          2%
> > > >   08        0/100          0%
> > > >   11        0/100          0%
> > > >   14        0/100          0%
> > > >
> > > > Maybe I should choose more small EISBs with lesser step between them,
> > > > i.e. EISB=0,1,2,3,4,5,6, and to repeat the test in build 1404, that is
> > > > definitely better than the previous one. But 12% stuck files with
> > > > EISB=02 (default Freenet setting) is too much in my opinion.
> > >
> >
> > Some really interesting new data showing that 2 extra-inserts works well
> > but is absolutely vital, and some analysis from me.
> >
> > Sadao <at> JXXNvLaHdNMysx7GmY5~L4aCoMuQV85oJM9OIqhkTR8 wrote :
> >
> > > I repeated the experiment on build 1404 with the same conditions but
> > > with different values of EISB. I inserted files on weekend and fetched
> > > them 10 days later on weekdays to see if that affects anything. I let
> > > the files to be fetched for about 8 hours and was changing their
> > > priority from time to time. Here are the results:
> > >
> > > EISB   Stuck files   Stuck ratio
> > >   00       38/100         38%
> > >   01       20/100         20%
> > >   02        4/100          4%
> > >   03        3/100          3%
> > >   04        1/100          1%
> > >   05        4/100          4%
> > >   06        1/100          1%
> > >
> > > I expected to see linear dependence but there is a jump between EISB=01
> > > and EISB=02. It's strange for me. Anyway, EISB=02 is optimal for good
> > > freenet builds like 1404. But I still think that EISB=05 makes sense for
> > > poor builds like 1403.
> >
> > Now that's more like it! :)
> >
> > Thanks for the very encouraging statistics!
> >
> > Load management improvements should EVENTUALLY improve this further,
> > reducing the need for extra inserts:
> > - Smoother fair sharing in preemptive rejections.
> > - Sending the slow-down signal back to the AIMDs *before* we start
> > rejecting stuff.
> > - Possibly some queueing, provided we separate load management for SSKs
> > from that for CHKs first to decouple the feedback loops and therefore the
> > queueing times.
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