[Fwd: new CD project using Derrida's & deLillo's voices]

From: Ralph Lichtensteiger <lichtconlon <at> t-online.de>
Subject: new CD project using Derrida's & deLillo's voices
Date: 2004-10-02 10:53:46 GMT

Philip Glass/arte

Le langage de l'espace (1st part, 2004)

Joan La Barbara and Ne(x)tworks Oct. 11

new CD project using Derrida's & deLillo's voices

(unknown)

silence...

I would love to know more of what you envision yourself here, and also 
why there were no responses. Sounds like a worthy discussion to me. 
Silent group...

Breandán.

On 8 Oct 2004, at 17:41, Mitch Renner wrote:

> i was just wondering...
>  
> is it possible to write unintentional music without chance operations 
> involved?
>  
> in the context of no improvisation, particularly, and excluding pieces
> in the vein of 4'33".
>  
> any comments appreciated.
>  
>  
> mitchell renner
>  
> mitchellrenner <at> msn.com

[Fwd: Jacques Derrida gestorben - Jacques Derrida died]

From: Ralph Lichtensteiger <lichtconlon <at> t-online.de>
Subject: Jacques Derrida gestorben - Jacques Derrida died
Date: 2004-10-09 18:19:10 GMT

unintentional music (how to proceed in duality?)

RE: unintentional music

Mitch,

I apologize for not responding as quickly as I would have liked. I hope your 
question is
not 'old news' already. I was suprised to see that it hadn't sparked debate 
on the list
because it is a very interesting question.

I've been thinking about your question and my answer depends on what you 
mean by 'chance
operations'. If you are referring to the conventional understanding of 
chance operations
(where a composer uses chance to determine performance actions that are 
intended to be
performed the same way each time - what David Cope calls music that is 
"indeterminate
with respect to its composition"), then I believe it is possible to create 
an
indeterminate composition without chance operations or improvisation. One 
only needs to
look to Cage's Imaginary Landscape #4 and Inlets to see indeterminacy (if 
one ignores
the chance operations used to create these works - more on that below) that 
is different
to both conventional chance operations and improvisation. The indeterminacy 
(or to use
your word, unintention) that is part of these works comes from the use of 
unpredictable
instruments (radio and conch shell). Cage called this approach to 
indeterminacy,
'Contingency'. Perfomers are 'locked' into a performance situation where 
they must
adhere to the directives given in the score. Musical results are contingent 
on forces
beyond the composer's and performer's control during perfomance. Cage used 
this
technique in order to thwart performer's using improvisation that relied on 
their "taste
and memory".

Cage did use chance operations to create Imaginary Landscape #4 and Inlets 
(although I'm
not 100% sure about Inlets) but I don't think he neccessarily had to in 
order to create
indeterminacy in these works. When musical results are contingent upon 
forces beyond the
composer's or performer's control (in the case of these two works, the 
unpredictable
nature of the instruments), indeterminate musical outcomes result regardless 
of the
indeterminacy or determinacy of the material.

As mentioned above, this answer depends on what you mean by 'chance 
operations'. The
reason for this is that one school of thought might be that music that is 
contingent on
outside factors during performance is just another example of a chance 
operations or, in
other words, Contingency is an operation of chance. If your question was 'Is 
it possible
to create unintentional works that do not rely on chance or improvisation?', 
it would be
much more difficult to answer in the affirmative.

I hope this somewhat rambling answer has helped you with your query.

Cheers,

Russell Goodwin

void_co <at> hotmail.com

>From: "Mitch Renner" <mitchellrenner <at> msn.com>
>To: <silence <at> list.mail.virginia.edu>
>Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:41:57 -0500
>
>i was just wondering...
>
>is it possible to write unintentional music without chance operations 
>involved?
>
>in the context of no improvisation, particularly, and excluding pieces
>in the vein of 4'33".
>
>any comments appreciated.
>
>
>mitchell renner
>
>mitchellrenner <at> msn.com

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