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Clemens Gresser | 1 Jul 2003 17:15
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Scottish Circus - contents of score?

Dear All,

Has anyone seen the score of "Scottish Circus" (1990)?
Could it be that it only says something like what's the entry in Peters' work list?:
" 30 min  	Musicircus based on Scottish traditional music. 	EP 67496"

I have read how Cage told The Whistlebinkies what to do, but in that source (which is 
an interview just BEFORE the premiere) there seems to be no score just yet. Of 
course this has happened with Variations VII too (performed 1966; "notated" as score 
in 1972), and for the "Musicircus" of 1963 there has, to my knowledge, never been a 
score.

Best wishes, 
Clemens

c.gresser <at> gmx.net
http://www.soton.ac.uk/~cgresser

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Robert F. Jones | 1 Jul 2003 21:30
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Re: Scottish Circus - contents of score?


>Dear All,
>
>Has anyone seen the score of "Scottish Circus" (1990)?
>Could it be that it only says something like what's the entry in Peters' 
>work list?:
>" 30 min  	Musicircus based on Scottish traditional music. 	EP 67496"
>
Hi, Silencers,

Kostelanetz prints a half page of pretty precise instructions (which might 
be all there is to the score) in _John Cage: Writer_, p. 200.

peace,

Robert F. Jones

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Virginia Anderson | 2 Jul 2003 15:00

Re: The cultural hegemony of the avant-garde

Hi all, 

Just this letter, then I'll lurk.

on 28/6/03 9:02 am, John Whiting at john <at> whitings-writings.com wrote:

> Virginia Anderson wrote:
> 
>> . . . Darrell Runswick's claim
>> that one of Cage's works is improvisatory, even though Cage himself told
>> Runswick that his indeterminacy was different from improvisation.
> 
> Daryl [sic] was pointing out -- correctly, I believe -- that in working out
> the 
> details of an indeterminate score, the distinction between indeterminacy and
> improvisation can ultimately become so vague as to descend into fundamentalist
> nit-picking. 

After the paper he gave at the 2001 20th C conference at Goldsmith's, I
asked Runswick if he felt that improvisation and the interpretation of
indeterminate elements were the same, he answered that he thought that they
were.  

I certainly use different modes of thinking in Western art-music
improvisation than I do in working out the indeterminate elements of a
composer's score.  What's more, people who I respect who improvise as a
major part of their professional activity say they do, too.  The members of
AMM distinguish AMM music from the occasional compositions they perform (in
the past, pieces like Cardew's _The Tiger's Mind_, Eddie Prevost's _Spirals_
and these days _Treatise_).  Cardew, who was no great slouch at interpreting
(Continue reading)

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Virginia Anderson | 2 Jul 2003 15:00

Re: The cultural hegemony of the avant-garde

on 28/6/03 10:14 pm, John ffitch at jpff <at> cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:

> In geneneral I have a lot of symphathy with Virginia, but I have to
> protest at
>> not the old-fashioned squeaky-door music.
> 
> I LIKE the sound of a squeaky door, which is why I produced a concert in
> La Habana, and produced a CD of music based on the sound of the squeaky
> door of the Gentleman's toilet of the State Library of Berlin.  I guess
> tastes differ!
> 
> I would liek to hear more Cardew on Radio3, but atr least I can get some
> CDs.
> 
> ==John ffitch
> http://www.codemist.co.uk/alta-sounds
Hi John! 

What a great idea!  Guess I can't say 'squeaky gate' nor 'bloop bleep' for
the same reason.  The fact that it's the toilet at such an imposing
institution lends it gravitas.

Your work reminds me of a piece Barney Childs wrote for me called _Real
Music_, so that when people asked him why he never wrote any real music, he
could say that he already had done so.

Cheers,

Virginia
(Continue reading)

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Virginia Anderson | 2 Jul 2003 15:00

Re: re; British Players

Hi Anton, 

I am rather impressed with your web site, which has far more experimental
music than the last time I looked.  Who wouldn't be impressed by a cellist
who includes Brecht's _Water Yam_ among his repertoire.  Surely, Anton, not
the whole box!  It's like saying that you play _Source_ or _Soundings_.  How
do you play _Motor Vehicle Sundown Event_ on your cello?

For what music - primarily - have you got the grants and big venues, and
what music - primarily - have you done the coal mines and such?  Not
everything you play is experimental - it's about half Cardew, Cage and Co,
and half hard avant-garde - Christopher Fox and James Dillon.  If you play
both types of music on the same concert, what music clinches the grant
award, Cardew or Fox?  Matchless, on which you did the Cardew, is different,
as its output is, in the main, eligible for jazz funding, even though AMM,
their main group, does not consider itself a jazz ensemble.  I wouldn't be
surprised if Eddie Prevost funded this himself, such is his love for the
work.  And, with the best will in the world, you have only one ensemble
which doesn't get the big bucks (or powerful pounds) that groups like the
London Sinfonietta, Lontano and so on have commanded over the years.  If
anything, you should be just as miffed that _all_ the music that you play is
ignored for the music that _they_ play.

I'm still awaiting concrete evidence, which means clear statistical data.
It's nice that you think that in your own case the situation has evened out.
The nationwide data of grants, commissions and programmes which I'm in the
process of compiling shows otherwise.

Cheers,
(Continue reading)

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John Whiting | 2 Jul 2003 15:38
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Re: The cultural hegemony of the avant-garde

Virginia Anderson wrote:
> . . . The fact that it's the toilet at such an imposing
> institution lends it gravitas.

The door of the john cage, presumably.

--

-- 

John Whiting

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snatchers...[T]hose now in charge of the federal government are...psychopathic 
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kos | 2 Jul 2003 17:55
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CFP: Music and Silence, York, October 2003 (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Nicky Losseff <nl5 <at> york.ac.uk>

CALL FOR PAPERS

From: Nicky Losseff <nl5:york.ac.uk>

Music and Silence: One-day conference

25 October 2003.
Department of Music, University of York

Papers are invited for this one-day conference on any aspect of music and
silence. We hope that some papers will deal with aspects of:

music and the psyche
silence as frame
the Japanese concept of Ma
the "music of silence" (e.g. Messiaen, Tavener)
silence as music's Other?

Enquiries should be addressed to Nicky Losseff <nl5:york.ac.uk>

Deadline for receipt of proposals: 31 July 2003.
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Clemens Gresser | 2 Jul 2003 22:09
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Re: Scottish Circus - contents of score?

Hi Robert, hi All,

On 1 Jul 2003 at 15:30, Robert F. Jones wrote:

> Kostelanetz prints a half page of pretty precise instructions (which
> might be all there is to the score) in _John Cage: Writer_, p. 200.

Does anybody know how this relates to the score of Scottish Circus?
Best wishes,
Clemens

c.gresser <at> gmx.net
http://www.soton.ac.uk/~cgresser

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Ryan William Blum | 3 Jul 2003 03:01
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Halberstadt

Hello Silence,

Has anyone out there actually been to see the Organ/ASLSP2 performance in
Halberstadt? I am travelling there in a few weeks' time to see what I can
find in preparation to write my senior thesis on Cage, and was hoping to
find some direction or hints from you all. I'm curious especially about
who comprises the group of "musicians and philosophers" (as referred to in
the BBC reports) who decided the scale of the performance.

I have with me the score of ASLSP2, but I wasn't able to get a hold of the
original piano piece. What exactly is the connection between the two
pieces?

Any ideas or help would be much appreciated. I have little expectation or
idea what I am doing, so any input is helpful!

Thanks,
Ryan Blum
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Kevin J Holm-Hudson | 3 Jul 2003 13:01
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source of Cage quote?

I am trying to locate the source for Cage's famous quote "Everything we do is music, and everywhere is the
right seat." From the aesthetic interests implied by this quote (musicircus, etc.), I would imagine that
it first appeared in A Year From Monday--however, I have been unsuccessful in locating it in either that
book or Silence. Perhaps someone on the list can steer me to the correct book (and page #)? 

Private responses welcome.

With thanks and best regards,

Kevin Holm-Hudson
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