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Jonathan | 1 Jul 2006 18:52
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G 707 PROJECT

I am in the process of converting a G-707 24 pin Controller to a 13
pin system. The 707 circuit is being replaced with the Gk-Kit
internal. My question; has anyone used the old hex pickup with the
newer circuit. If possible I would like to continue using the older
hex, and just connect it to the new circuit, as it fits the trem
system perfectly. The newer hex has a radius adjustment, which I won't
need as this hex was designed for this neck. I can always just "Try it
and see" but I am sending the body/neck/stabilizer bar out this week
to get painted, and I need any re-routing/patching done before.

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unlunf | 1 Jul 2006 18:48
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Re: Should I swap out my Brian Moore MIDIAxe 5 pin for 13 pin?

George,

> .... It will take years until some kind of data-transfer-protocol
> for USB and guitars will be established in the industry.

Errr, no, that's not quite true, at least not for the reasons
you think.

The USB protocols have all been hammered out, it's pretty much a
plug-and-play deal by now. There are no ambiguities or uncertainties
left to get in the way of data transfer.  And that's that USB does,
transfer data from Point A to Point B, end of story.  All that's
left is to just buy a chip off the shelf, and you're all set. <g>

The problems to overcome are easy to see, not so easy to surmount.
First, BM is currently using USB to transfer audio (analog) data
to the computer, in PCM format (basically, Windows sees it as a WAV
file).  Almost any computer understands this format, so it was a
no-brainer for BM.  The only cost to BM was to implement a way to
encode the audio in PCM (pulse code modulation), then to impress
that onto the USB line.  With only one signal source (the mag
pickup(s)), that was easy.

However, when we consider doing this with six separate signals,
timing issues arise.  Nothing that can't be solved, but it does
add to the design headache (and therefore, the overall costs). <g>
Make no mistake, the USB converter could easily handle six audio
streams, even USB 1.0 has enough bandwidth.  But what about the
part that says "MIDI"?
(Continue reading)

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pootnik@t-online.de | 1 Jul 2006 23:09
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Re: Re: Should I swap out my Brian Moore MIDIAxe 5 pin for 13 pin?

unlunf wrote: " In summary, the transfer of data itself won't be the
problem, it'll be the on-board conversion processes. If we can
solve that puzzle, then we'll truly have a "MIDI Guitar", won't we?"
-----------------------------
well, midiaxe and limex have already 5-pin midi-output, that´s why
I had a plan to install Limex into one of my guitars... but: which one?
:-)
So midi is not a problem, because some companies already shrinked
their electronics for the conversion under the size of a normal
guitar cavity.

The problem is to transfer 6 audio channels (analog or digital) to
an external converter. Spuler solved it with firewire, and as we see,
USB is still not good enough for 6 audio channels. Maybe USB2 will
solve the problem, so it could replace the 13-pin system some day.
Untill than, I will use both, e. g. all 3 systems! Don´t forget the
"oldfashioned way" to play guitar as an acoustic instrument or
through an amp... :-)

BTW.:I´ve heard that people have serious timing problems with
USB-audio-interfaces, especially when more than 2 tracks have
to be recorded/monitored.

Regards,
George
http://midiguitar.eu

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hazard factor | 1 Jul 2006 22:13

RE: Re: Should I swap out my Brian Moore MIDIAxe 5 pin for 13 pin?

I see the same problems arising. Back when the 5 pin MidiAxe was around, I
hated that you had to be plugged into a fragile little box (with a more
fragile wall wart adapter) for it to work. Also, tweaking things like
sensitivity or bend range at a gig is impossible unless you brought a
laptop. My guess is, for the USB Brian Moore, there would have to be some
software involved too...and it has to be better than the hardware units that
are out there.
As far as the USB audio is concerned, it is a neat idea, although a few
companies are now making guitar cables that terminate in a USB connector,
and at $40 US, it is cheaper than the installation in a guitar. 

But really, other than Brian Moore, who is still waving the midi guitar flag
out there? There is the Roland Ready strat, although it really isn't in the
same class. Parker seemed to have abandoned midi unles you spend $7k on the
new Belew signature (wow, I want that)....so who is left?

Dave Eichenberger- guitars.loops.devices
http://www.hazardfactor.com               <--- The music site
http://www.myspace.com/hazardfactor <--- The music blog

 
> MIDIAxe 5 pin for 13 pin?
> 
> George,
> 
> > .... It will take years until some kind of 
> data-transfer-protocol for 
> > USB and guitars will be established in the industry.
>
(Continue reading)

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drjoness2001 | 2 Jul 2006 01:07
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Re: G 707 PROJECT

Yes, I have converted a G-505 to a 13-pin synth.

This was done as an experiment to see if I could salvage an old hex
pickup with a broken ribbon connector.

I removed the potting on the old pickup, wired directly to the poles,
and added about $25 worth of extra parts. I swapped out the resonance
and LFO depth knobs for push buttons to control S1 and S2, and used
the 3-mode switch as the Gtr/Gtr+Synth/Synth switch found on 13-pin
guitars. I had one pot unused (the synth balance knob) which I
re-wired as a Roland EV-5 control. I plug this into my VG-88.

This way, I did not have to change to body of the guitar in any way.

I will not be updating the gr300 web page with an offical page in a
while, but here is a link, which includes a link to the schematic of
the circuit I designed:

http://www.joness.com/gr300/24-to-13_PREVIEW.htm

Good luck with your project!

Wayne

--- In midiguitar <at> yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <merman_93 <at> ...> wrote:
>
> I am in the process of converting a G-707 24 pin Controller to a 13
> pin system. The 707 circuit is being replaced with the Gk-Kit
> internal. My question; has anyone used the old hex pickup with the
> newer circuit. If possible I would like to continue using the older
(Continue reading)

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drjoness2001 | 2 Jul 2006 01:39
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Re: G 707 PROJECT

I realize that in my enthusiasm to send you the info on my conversion,
I for got to directly answer your question:

I found the output of the vintage pickup to be a bit hotter than I
wanted it to be. It was not way off, but I felt it could be better.

I experimented with several ranges of resistors in the input to the
opamp, before settling on 27K. I do tend to place my pickup close to
the strings to reduce cross-talk, and that may also contribute to the
high output level.

Wayne

--- In midiguitar <at> yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <merman_93 <at> ...> wrote:
>
> I am in the process of converting a G-707 24 pin Controller to a 13
> pin system. The 707 circuit is being replaced with the Gk-Kit
> internal. My question; has anyone used the old hex pickup with the
> newer circuit. If possible I would like to continue using the older
> hex, and just connect it to the new circuit, as it fits the trem
> system perfectly. The newer hex has a radius adjustment, which I won't
> need as this hex was designed for this neck. I can always just "Try it
> and see" but I am sending the body/neck/stabilizer bar out this week
> to get painted, and I need any re-routing/patching done before.
>

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Glenn Saunders | 2 Jul 2006 01:31
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Re: Re: Should I swap out my Brian Moore MIDIAxe 5 pin for 13 pin?

On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:13:15 -0700, hazard factor  
<artists <at> hazardfactor.com> wrote:
> But really, other than Brian Moore, who is still waving the midi guitar  
> flag out there?

For mainstream production guitars?  Besides the Fender Roland Ready, that  
would be Godin, Switch, and Ibanez as far as I can see.

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unlunf | 2 Jul 2006 03:00
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Re: Should I swap out my Brian Moore MIDIAxe 5 pin for 13 pin?

George,

> well, midiaxe and limex have already 5-pin midi-output, that´s why
> I had a plan to install Limex into one of my guitars... but: which one?
> :-)
> So midi is not a problem, because some companies already shrinked
> their electronics for the conversion under the size of a normal
> guitar cavity.

Midiaxe and limex are not ready for primetime.  When some known guitar
maker (and not an expensive boutique one, either) starts incorporating
them into standard production models, then I'll give them more serious
consideration.

I don't want to sound like I'm getting all snotty here, but I do note
that Midiaxe's website is no longer up and running.  That tells me a
lot right there.  Worse, when Google searches for limex, 9 of the first
10 results are for a British agricultural product with lime in it.
That's certainly inspires confidence in a potential consumer, doesn't
it? <g>  Just food for thought, when considering the commercial aspects
of this discussion, that's all.

> The problem is to transfer 6 audio channels (analog or digital) to
> an external converter.

Why would I want to ship six individual signals when I can, allegedly,
convert them into a format that will let me ship that data out on just
one wire?  That would just defeat the whole purpose of using a single
wire (a serial connection) to carry the data out of the guitar, wouldn't
it?  After all, if we wanted to continue using six separate signals, we
(Continue reading)

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unlunf | 2 Jul 2006 03:14
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Re: Should I swap out my Brian Moore MIDIAxe 5 pin for 13 pin?

Glenn,

None of those are MIDI, they are all "Roland-ready", and nothing more,
marketing hype notwithstanding.  Actually, you don't commonly see these
companies themselves use the word 'MIDI' as a descriptor in their
materials, although it does happen from time to time.  It's usually
the retailers or the used-gear sellers that mistakenly append MIDI to
the description, thus perpetuating the myth.

Parker seems to be the only to actually incorporate a true MIDI
solution into their axe, or so it appears to me at this point in time.
And look at that price tag.... YIKES!  What'd I say last time out, eh?
Way too high for anyone but P.T. Barnum's famous sucker. <g>

Brian Moore is on the verge of making MIDI over a single serial line
available, if rumors are to be believed, but again, 'twould be best to
wait and see on that one. <g>  I'd rate their "flying the MIDI flag"
as being at half-mast.  <lol>

unlunf

--- In midiguitar <at> yahoogroups.com, "Glenn Saunders" <mos6507 <at> ...> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:13:15 -0700, hazard factor <artists <at> ...> wrote:
>>
>> But really, other than Brian Moore, who is still waving the midi guitar  
>> flag out there?
> 
> For mainstream production guitars?  Besides the Fender Roland Ready, that  
> would be Godin, Switch, and Ibanez as far as I can see.
(Continue reading)

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Jonathan | 2 Jul 2006 06:01
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Re: G 707 PROJECT

Wayne, Oh Yeah,...you Rock. That was a big help! Since I already 
have the Gk Kit, It will be a bit simpler but,..Wow! Your schematic 
may be a big help in my other project guitar, adding a mod 
controller. I could have saved a few hundred if I'd made your 
conversion preamp, but,..with G-707 selling fairly regularly and not 
too expensive, there's always next time. BTW, I spend a few hours 
every week drooling at your site, and gear, (just a got an e-mail 
back from you this week), don't ever loose interest!
--- In midiguitar <at> yahoogroups.com, "drjoness2001" <drjoness2001 <at> ...> 
wrote:
>
> I realize that in my enthusiasm to send you the info on my 
conversion,
> I for got to directly answer your question:
> 
> I found the output of the vintage pickup to be a bit hotter than I
> wanted it to be. It was not way off, but I felt it could be better.
> 
> I experimented with several ranges of resistors in the input to the
> opamp, before settling on 27K. I do tend to place my pickup close 
to
> the strings to reduce cross-talk, and that may also contribute to 
the
> high output level.
> 
> Wayne
> 
> --- In midiguitar <at> yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <merman_93 <at> > wrote:
> >
> > I am in the process of converting a G-707 24 pin Controller to a
(Continue reading)

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