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Paulo Abreu | 1 Nov 2002 02:07
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RE: Re: Future of Kurzweil?

With all the respect. I think that this last mail really shows how bad it
has been for Kurzweil to market such a beautiful and powerful line of
synths, squarely as a ROM player...ouch!!! All the K2x00 are sooo much more
than that... for electric guitar sound it is usually better to play a
electric guitar...or have someone play it and sample it..or...buy a sample
CD of electric guitars....

My only complain with Kurz...besides price, and lack of european support
would be the stupid nightmare of its upgrades...its so dated the way a K2500
must be upgraded...and the nightmare to get ram for this synth...that is
awful, not the lack of Rom blocks (for this there are some very good
programmers doing CDRoms for the Kurz on this list) nor even
polyphony...what about OSC count...if you count the number of simultaneously
available OSCilators on a K2500/2600 you will see that it is not that far
from those britlle and cold 128 voices...rom things :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Scrimenti [mailto:dscrimenti <at> adelphia.net]
Sent: quinta-feira, 31 de Outubro de 2002 20:27
To: quantum7; kmay <at> OAOT.com
Cc: KurzList <at> yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [KL] Re: Future of Kurzweil?

I think the Kurzweil is inferior to Yamaha and Korg when it comes to
guitars, especially electric guitars. The jazz drums are much better on
Korg. And none of the Kurz basses can shake the room like the ones on my
Yamaha S80. I like the old sounds, and it's great to have them for backwards
compatibility. But if we ever get a K3000, it should come with 32 meg of rom
or more, before adding any plug-in boards.
----- Original Message -----
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Mike Warpenburg | 1 Nov 2002 03:05
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Re: Re: Future of Kurzweil?

I agree. The Kurz is simply not a "Dial and Smile" machine, generally
speaking. You buy a Kurz for expressive power. Its capabilities are mind
boggling. If you don't want to use the "Edit" button then you probably
aren't going to be happy with a Kurz. I think most people in that category
figure that out pretty fast and opt for other ROM-based machines with tons
of built-in sounds.

I think most musicians that use a Kurz build up their own libraries of
programs, over time, that fit their own unique styles and goals. In that
respect, the Kurz becomes a one-of-a-kind musical instrument, different for
each of us.

For me, I am less interested in sounds (programs) for the sake of sounds. My
personal opinion is that sounds by themselves are not very exciting, I am
moved by bringing all the elements together (sound, composition,
performance, etc.) to make music. As such, I end up making extensive use of
the "Edit" button. The Kurz works very well for me, and likely most of you
(else you wouldn't be on this list).

The Kurz is a very technical instrument and a very powerful (expressive)
instrument.

As for the polyphony argument, Kurzweil already has a solution to this if it
is a problem for you... a second Kurz to go with your first. :) Sorry I
couldn't resist. Please don't FLAME me. :)

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paulo Abreu" <peabreu <at> sapo.pt>
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Mike Warpenburg | 1 Nov 2002 03:33
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Wish for Kurzweil if you're listening

I would love to see a next generation machine use a Mac/PC program as the
primary UI for programming all aspects of the machine. Connecting with USB
would be nice.

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Paolo Tramannoni | 1 Nov 2002 12:35
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Re: Re: Future of Kurzweil?

Hi Sean,

>of us who do not care to spend 12 hours per day trying to make a violin
>sound like a martian toilet flushing, the K2600 falls way short these days
>in comparison to a Korg Triton Studio

The second thing I did, when I first received a Triton (the first was 
playing for a couple days, with no time to sleep) was trying to make 
a violin sound as a martian toilet...

Kidding apart, I don't think making new sounds is something asking 
you hours of work, unless we are dealing with simulative sounds. 
Powerful synths - and the Kurzweil is the most powerful - are great 
for letting you create that new, unique sound, in just a matter of 
minutes. Just edit some parameters to an existing sound, and you'll 
have a totally new, unheard sound for your next hit.

>I want a new set of ROMs that are not 11 years old.  I know this 
>will piss people off, but the K2600 ROM sucks compared to....well 
>just about every new synth on the planet.

I just finished composing a soundtrack for a video, soon streamed on 
Rock TV. I used a K2500R+KDFX, with the Orchestral ROM fitted, and 
some additional string ensemble samples. Man, it sounds incredible. 
It doesn't sound as a modern synth faking the orchestra... it sounds 
as a movie soundtrack.

I had another powerful synth at my disposal, with tons of evocative 
presets. At first, playing those presets gave me the illusion that I 
had the soundtrack ready. Then, the director made me note that there
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Xarkos Ataktos | 1 Nov 2002 13:39

Re: Future of Kurzweil?

> Message: 8
>    Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:27:29 -0700
>    From: "Peter Schouten" <peter <at> pyramid-sound.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: Future of Kurzweil?
>
[snip]
> One should purchase a K2x00 for its expandability and
> editability. To do more with any digital synthesizer/sampler,
> you need to be able to get around on it. The Kurzweil is no
> different from any other unit in that regard. One of the things
> that sets it apart from other machines, however, is that it is
> totally programmable and has a user interface that is intuitive
> and easy to use.  Just push the  _Edit_  button and start
> paging left or right.  It's all  there, ready for you to customize.

this is "intuitive"???  hm.  my technologist brain agrees w/you; my
musician brain balks.  could we be looking at a difference in point of
view, *what's* available v. *how* it's available?

[ - WARNING:  high-bandwidth diatribe ahead - ]

i have a whole list of gripes when it comes to the k's u.i. not being
intuitive.  here are 3 of them:

1- non-intuitive songwriting. a more musical approach to song writing
might be: sit down, find the voices you want, move the sliders, etc.
to where you want them, start the sequencer, and record the song.
this naïve approach is sure to leave you surprised when you realise
the song doesn't play back at all like what you recorded!  come to
find out the sequencer doesn't take into account any of those pedals,
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KurzList | 1 Nov 2002 15:09
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File - MonthlyFAQ


This is the standard monthly reminder FAQ for KurzList.

The Kurzweil Musical Instrument E-mail Discussion List 
For help: http://k2users.org/k_mail.htm

Hundreds of people subscribe to the KurzList. As a courtesy,  please
read and observe the guidelines below. 

1. USE DESCRIPTIVE SUBJECT LINES FOR YOUR POSTS. 

2. THINK BEFORE YOU POST. 

3. BE BRIEF IN QUOTING FROM OTHERS' POSTS. 

4. DON'T BE A JERK.

5. DON'T POST EXTREMELY OFF-TOPIC MESSAGES.

6. KEEP SIGNATURE TEXT TO A REASONABLE SIZE.

7. In the subject line, use [OT] for "off topic" and [ANNOUNCE] for announcements.

For etiquette details go to http://k2users.org/k_etiq.htm

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Dave Scrimenti | 1 Nov 2002 17:03
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Re: Re: Future of Kurzweil?

Obviously, the main benefit of the Kurz is its programmability. But the
better the samples, and the wider variety of them you have, the more likely
it is you will be able to create great sounds. Trying to create a good sound
with a poor sample is like trying to use sophisticated equipment to repair a
recording made with a $10 mic. It can be done, but it would be alot easier
if you just made a good recording in the first place. I have bought CD's,
but they're expensive and take forever to load.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paulo Abreu" <peabreu <at> sapo.pt>
To: "Kurzlist" <KurzList <at> yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <KurzList <at> yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:07 PM
Subject: RE: [KL] Re: Future of Kurzweil?

> With all the respect. I think that this last mail really shows how bad it
> has been for Kurzweil to market such a beautiful and powerful line of
> synths, squarely as a ROM player...ouch!!! All the K2x00 are sooo much
more
> than that... for electric guitar sound it is usually better to play a
> electric guitar...or have someone play it and sample it..or...buy a sample
> CD of electric guitars....
>
> My only complain with Kurz...besides price, and lack of european support
> would be the stupid nightmare of its upgrades...its so dated the way a
K2500
> must be upgraded...and the nightmare to get ram for this synth...that is
> awful, not the lack of Rom blocks (for this there are some very good
> programmers doing CDRoms for the Kurz on this list) nor even
> polyphony...what about OSC count...if you count the number of
simultaneously
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Shane Etter | 1 Nov 2002 17:32

Future of Kurzweil, my take...

Kurzweil has been ahead of the game since the k2000, (circa 1992?) and
remember at the time, the Korg M1 and Ensoniq were still ruling in
sales. I remember for me it came down to the Roland JD-800 or the k2000.
what a great decision!

They introduced a new method of VAST synthesis "1 new sound per second
for the next 2000 years" or something was their marketing scheme, and it
worked on me. 
Im not too sure they had any idea how groundbreaking this was, but to
me, its been a real savior. Unfortunately, ive been plagued with being
able to understand it (and been a SOUNDSUBS subscriber since the
beginning.. Ha ha). 
My point is: VAST is still generating new sounds with the built-in 8mb
of ROM, again light years ahead of the competition for that era.
Anyways, I have to applaud kurzweil for maintaining
reverse-compatibility for 10 years. How many other synth manufacturers
can say that? Answer: none.
How many synth manufacturers have updated OS's for outdated synths, and
given it away mostly for free?  Answer: none. 
Who was the first to put a hd in a synth (ok, synclavier and emulators)
for people that could actually afford it? Answer: kurzweil
Who can import almost any sample and format from other manufacturers?
Answer: kurzweil.
Who has a "professional grade" 4 buss effects processor? Answer:
kurzweil
Who made "upgradeable synth" a reality: kurzweil.... You get the
picture.

I picture the K3000 looking like the alesis andromeda, knobs everywhere
which equates to a better "User Interface"
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Gregory Shiff | 1 Nov 2002 17:33
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Re: Re: Future of Kurzweil?

I have read a lot of people asking for better samples in the Kurz.  I don't 
think this is what the K-seris is all about.  They are sick digital 
synthesizers with a sampling engine included.

the basic waveforms: sine, saw, and so forth...are the best building blocks 
for the VAST engine.  Try running a guitar sample through a shaper, it will 
get distorted, but not a whole lot else.  Start mixing sine wave and saw 
wave, shaper 'em, filter them, reshaper them.  oh yeah.

Greg

www.gregoryshiff.com
Persona Records
www.personarecords.com

>From: "Dave Scrimenti" <dscrimenti <at> adelphia.net>
>To: "Kurzlist" <KurzList <at> yahoogroups.com>,"Paulo Abreu" <peabreu <at> sapo.pt>
>CC: <KurzList <at> yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [KL] Re: Future of Kurzweil?
>Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:03:21 -0500
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Mike Hall | 1 Nov 2002 17:58
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Re: Wish for Kurzweil if you're listening

Mike Warpenburg wrote:

> I would love to see a next generation machine use a Mac/PC program as the
> primary UI for programming all aspects of the machine. Connecting with USB
> would be nice.

And make it open-source, so "everyone" can enjoy.

--
Mike Hall
http://www.enteract.com/~mghall

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Gmane