MartyB | 1 Dec 02:32 2005
Picon
Picon

Good Thing This is not an Editorial...

... but rather a straight News article. :/

MartyB

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051130/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq_fact_check_1;_ylt
=ApGuSAqAkIPJKSV3TZ2LjlxqP0AC;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Bush Attempts Hard Sell on Iraq Progress By CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated
Press Writer
Wed Nov 30, 1:57 PM ET

WASHINGTON -     President Bush's depiction of Iraqi security forces as
"helping to turn the tide" is difficult to square with persistent setbacks
in handing control of the country back to its own people.

His suggestion that Americans are solidly behind the mission also
understates opposition at home, and his hard sell on the rising quality of
Iraqi forces overlooks complexities on the ground.

Bush on Wednesday declared the Iraqi army and police forces are
"increasingly taking the lead in the fight against the terrorists," even as
recruits patrol     Iraq's most violent cities barely three months after
learning how to use weapons and police forces struggle to get officers to
come to work.

The president, in a major speech on Iraq war aims and in an accompanying
strategy paper, acknowledged all has not gone as planned, speaking several
times of a need for "adjustments" along the way.

Still, the White House paper cited a number of positive statistics on the
(Continue reading)

karl | 1 Dec 03:09 2005
Picon

Re: Choice and Consequence


> karl, you've written a very thoughtful blog, and i appreciate the
> opportunity to respond to it in a thoughtful way.

THanks!

> hal
>
>>The idea is fairly simple really. We are presented with choices daily. To
>>speed or not to speed. To cheat or lie. Even something as simple as
>>deciding
>>whether to indulge in that 3rd Krispy Kreme. We make a choice and choose a
>>course of action, and then have to deal with the consequences of that
>>choice.
>
> in my 1970s youth, we were told 'you choose your choices and you accept 
> your
> consequences.'  one aspect of liiberalism gone bad is the extent to which
> people do seek to evade the consequences that follow from our words and
> deeds.  our children learn this from an early age: it's not my fault, i
> don't know, someone else did it, he started it, can all be read as 
> attempts
> to evade responsiblity because we don't like the (negative) consequences 
> of
> our (negative) acts.

I dont like overgeneralizing, but I have to agree thart for soem reason this 
appears to be a core liberal agenda.

its almost as if feelings ans understanding trump reponsibility and 
(Continue reading)

karl | 1 Dec 03:11 2005
Picon

Re: court date tomorrow

let us know what happened

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "harold smith" <sanddude909@...>
To: <dadl-ot@...>
Cc: <the_coffee_house@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 8:13 PM
Subject: [DADL-OT] court date tomorrow

> thanks to all who have prayed for my mortage/home equity line of credit
> situation.
>
> tomorrow (wednesday 11/30) my attorney and i go to court to seek a 
> temporary
> restraining order against the lender trying to foreclose on my home.
> although we are confident that the TRO will be granted, there exists a
> substantial possibility that i will have to post somewhere in the area of
> $20,000 as a good-faith deposit to the court towards the alleged arrearage
> on the fraudulent loan.  during the holidays isn't the best time for that
> kind of money to be deposited elsewhere.
>
> so i covet the prayers of my family in the faith during these travails, 
> and
> especially for my family who is suffering alongside of me.
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> hal
>
> _________________________________________________________________
(Continue reading)

karl | 1 Dec 07:15 2005
Picon

Re: Crecent memorial redesigned

Well as long as everyone agrees with it, then yep.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael D. Findlay" <mdfindlay@...>
To: <dadl-ot@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:08 PM
Subject: [DADL-OT] Crecent memorial redesigned

> Chalk one up for the good guys:
>
>
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Flight-93-Memorial.html?emc=eta1
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date:
11/30/2005
>
>
> -- 
nezmik | 1 Dec 18:51 2005
Picon

Re: Crecent memorial redesigned

There were "good guys" in this debate? 
 
Thom
http://www.livejournal.com/users/thomwade/
http://www.in-one-ear.com
_______________________________________
"I have a fear that fulfilling my true potential would really cut into my sittin' around time."~Maria Bamford

"We live as though the world were as it should be. To show it what it can be."~Angel, Deep Down
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D. Findlay <mdfindlay-rphTv4pjVZMJGwgDXS7ZQA@public.gmane.org>
To: dadl-ot-epjlp/MVrvxLht1zKVN5LB2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org
Sent: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:08:23 -0500
Subject: [DADL-OT] Crecent memorial redesigned

.AOLPlainTextBody { margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: #000; background-color: #fff; } .AOLPlainTextBody pre { font-size: 9pt; } .AOLInlineAttachment { margin: 10px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader { border-bottom: 2px solid #E9EAEB; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .Title { font: 11px Tahoma; font-weight: bold; color: #666666; background: #E9EAEB; padding: 3px 0px 1px 10px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldLabel { font: 11px Tahoma; font-weight: bold; color: #666666; padding: 1px 10px 1px 9px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldValue { font: 11px Tahoma; color: #333333; }
Chalk one up for the good guys: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Flight-93-Memorial.html?emc=eta1 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005 -- DADL-OT home: http://lists.tesserae.org/listinfo.cgi/dadl-ot-tesserae.org Archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.music.dadl.ot
Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List
http://mail.netscape.com
--

-- 
DADL-OT home: http://lists.tesserae.org/listinfo.cgi/dadl-ot-tesserae.org 
Archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.music.dadl.ot 
nezmik | 1 Dec 18:50 2005
Picon

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: A democratic blogger to allrepbulicans: Kill yourself

 **Should Dennis Miller stoop to the same levels, i will deal with that then.
Can you show me that Dennis has?
 
Nope.  The thing is, I give satirist/pundits (such as Miller and Franken or Maher) more leeway than I do straight ahead pundits.  That's part of my problem with books like Bernie Goldbergs 100 People screwing up America.  I mean, Franken makes number thirty seven and he includes Aaron McGruder (Boondocks writer/artist) and Tim Robbins...but Bill O'Reilly can't even make the top 100 list?  I am far more concerned about the impact of people who claim that EVERYTHING they say is the truth.  With a guy like Franken (or Miller) I take it for what it is and judge it accordingly.
 
But hey, we disagree on the guy.  I am perfectly happy to just leave it at that. 
 
Thom
http://www.livejournal.com/users/thomwade/
http://www.in-one-ear.com
_______________________________________
"I have a fear that fulfilling my true potential would really cut into my sittin' around time."~Maria Bamford

"We live as though the world were as it should be. To show it what it can be."~Angel, Deep Down
 
 
Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List
http://mail.netscape.com
--

-- 
DADL-OT home: http://lists.tesserae.org/listinfo.cgi/dadl-ot-tesserae.org 
Archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.music.dadl.ot 
nezmik | 1 Dec 19:00 2005
Picon

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: A democratic blogger to allrepbulicans: Kill yourself

You know...what I see is a corporation screwup.  As for Franken's full knowledge...don't know...and frankly, I don't care unless he was RESPONSIBLE.  Thus far, his lie appears to be Libby styled (a lie-yet not about any wrong doing on his part).  Not sure why he'd avoid telling us he was aware, when there is the settlement agreement.  It hardly puts him in the villainous category Malkin and other's want to paint...but I've found that Malkin, like Coulter and Sean Hannity, is about her spin on the story, not just the facts.  I am sceptical of their presentations here. 
 
Thom
http://www.livejournal.com/users/thomwade/
http://www.in-one-ear.com
_______________________________________
"I have a fear that fulfilling my true potential would really cut into my sittin' around time."~Maria Bamford

"We live as though the world were as it should be. To show it what it can be."~Angel, Deep Down
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: karl <karldswenson-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
To: dadl-ot-epjlp/MVrvxLht1zKVN5LB2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org
Sent: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:17:33 -0800
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: A democratic blogger to allrepbulicans: Kill yourself

.AOLPlainTextBody { margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: #000; background-color: #fff; } .AOLPlainTextBody pre { font-size: 9pt; } .AOLInlineAttachment { margin: 10px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader { border-bottom: 2px solid #E9EAEB; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .Title { font: 11px Tahoma; font-weight: bold; color: #666666; background: #E9EAEB; padding: 3px 0px 1px 10px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldLabel { font: 11px Tahoma; font-weight: bold; color: #666666; padding: 1px 10px 1px 9px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldValue { font: 11px Tahoma; color: #333333; }
Hell, Zell Miller foams at the mouth on pretty much every interview. We have...what...three incididents of Franken being over the top? Hardly appropriate to deem Franken a frothing, lying maniac. Especially the lying, as, so far, you have one example of his "lies". Thom ***For the helluvit, I found you one lie. It wont change your opinion of anything,but what the heck. You asked. No it isnt out of the book, but i didnt know if i had a limit. Remember when the air america money scandal hit? people were scandalized about the loan scheme between AA and the Boys and girls club http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003117.htm well I seem to recall many claming (not saying you) Franken should not be accused of any chicanery in this as he was just on of the Air Hosts. In fact he himself said On the August 8, 2005, episode of his radio show, "I didn't know anything about this until late last week." Then how come he signed (notorized) a settlement agreement that included the loan in November of 2004? http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003487.htm http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2005/09/franken-drobny-air-america-all-caught.html Wait, that was just a mistake, right? He either forgot or just didnt read it? Karl -- DADL-OT home: http://lists.tesserae.org/listinfo.cgi/dadl-ot-tesserae.org Archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.music.dadl.ot
Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List
http://mail.netscape.com
--

-- 
DADL-OT home: http://lists.tesserae.org/listinfo.cgi/dadl-ot-tesserae.org 
Archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.music.dadl.ot 
nezmik | 1 Dec 19:05 2005
Picon

Re: Choice and Consequence

> I dont like overgeneralizing, but I have to agree thart for soem reason this
appears to be a core liberal agenda.

>its almost as if feelings ans understanding trump reponsibility and
consequence.
 
In the past, that may have been true...but I am finding more and more conservatives seem to like the idea of the Government doing our work for us...especially in the area of parenting.  Much of the fallout from the Janet Jackson incident at the Superbowl was concerned conservatives. 
 
Thom
http://www.livejournal.com/users/thomwade/
http://www.in-one-ear.com
_______________________________________
"I have a fear that fulfilling my true potential would really cut into my sittin' around time."~Maria Bamford

"We live as though the world were as it should be. To show it what it can be."~Angel, Deep Down
 

Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List
http://mail.netscape.com
--

-- 
DADL-OT home: http://lists.tesserae.org/listinfo.cgi/dadl-ot-tesserae.org 
Archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.music.dadl.ot 
karl | 1 Dec 19:40 2005
Picon

Re: Crecent memorial redesigned

>
>> Chalk one up for the good guys:
>
> Well as long as everyone agrees with it, then yep.

Well, so much for that.  Already the nay sayers are striking back. Little 
green footballs has the story:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=18430_Flight_93_Memorial_Still_an_Islamofascist_Shrine&only

I had hoped that some discussion and compromise had silenced this, but nope. 
This guy has spent what seems to be an extraordinary amount of time working 
on this.  In fairness i posted as many of his figures and links but I'm sure 
i missed some.

My assessment is that the guy is a bit obsessed.  Just a bit.  A little bit.

**

http://errortheory.blogspot.com/2005/11/redesigned-flight-93-memorial-still_30.html

Redesigned Flight 93 memorial still an Islamo-fascist shrine

The redesigned flight 93 memorial, announced today, still contains all of 
the features that made it a terrorist memorial. Architect Paul Murdoch's 
infamous red crescent is still there, still planted with red maple trees, 
still inscribed in the exact same circle as before, and with the same two 
crescent tips still intact. Thus the crescent bisector defined by these 
crescent tips is also the same as before. It still points almost exactly to 
Mecca, making the crescent a Mihrab (an Islamic prayer station, where the 
believer faces into a crescent, towards Mecca, to perform his ritual 
prostrations). The design still incorporates a separate upper 
terrorist-memorial wall, centered precisely on the red-maple crescent. There 
are still 44 translucent blocks on the flight path to the crash site, 
matching the total number of dead, instead of just the forty translucent 
blocks that are dedicated to the forty murdered Americans. Lastly, the Tower 
of Voices part of the memorial is still an Islamic prayer-time sundial.

Start with the red crescent. In the original design, the lower crescent tip 
was defined by the furthest extent of red maple trees on the bottom, while 
the upper crescent tip was defined by the end of the inner of two concrete 
walls, between which trees were planted.

Figure 1. 
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/148/5959/640/FullRedTipsBisector.jpg Original 
design. The inner of the two concrete walls at top follows the circle that 
the crescent partly inscribes. The crescent tip has to be located on this 
circle, hence the end of the inner wall defines the upper crescent tip. The 
green bisector points almost exactly to Mecca (in the northeast direction, 
into the red crescent). Pixel accurate calculations of the bisector and its 
orientation towards Mecca here. 
http://errortheory.blogspot.com/2005/09/44-dead-people-44-translucent-blocks.html

In the redesign, the lower tip remains exactly as before. So does the upper 
crescent tip (the end of the inner concrete wall). The change is that there 
are now additional trees planted beyond the end of the concrete wall that 
defines the upper crescent tip. These additional trees, planted along and 
out from the circle line, make it look like there is now a bowl instead of a 
crescent, but both original crescent tips are still in place.

Figure 2. 
http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/148/5959/640/Redesign%2C%20bowl.jpg The 
redesign. The topo lines (also visible in Figure 1) show that the both 
crescent tips are located exactly as before. Similarly for the copse of 
trees (in the position of the star on an Islamic flag) and the upper and 
lower sections of the memorial wall.

The filling in of some trees, in places that blend the original crescent 
into its surroundings, but do not affect its defining characteristics, is 
apparently the only change in the entire "redesign." All of the original 
features of the terrorist-memorial remain. The new graphics show that there 
is still the same separate upper section of memorial wall as before. Like 
the lower wall, it lies along the flight path to the crash site. Just as the 
lower wall contains 40 translucent blocks, dedicated to the forty murdered 
Americans, so too does the upper section of memorial wall contain 
translucent blocks.

Figure 3. 
http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/148/5959/640/Redesign%2C%20wall.jpg From 
redesign announcement. Identical to original design. The upper section of 
memorial wall, seen to the right, is centered precisely on the large red 
maple crescent and contains additional translucent blocks, in addition to 
the forty on the lower wall that memorialize the murdered Americans.

In all, there are forty four translucent blocks emplaced along the flight 
path to the crash site, where forty Americans and four murderers died on 
September 11th. [Three are on the upper section of the memorial wall, one is 
the large glass block, at the upper crescent tip, that dedicates the entire 
site. See UPDATE below for details, or click the link immediately below.] 
Further, the fact that the crescent tips are unchanged means that the upper 
section of memorial wall is still bisected exactly by the Mecca line that 
bisects the large red crescent. (My earlier analysis of the upper-memorial 
wall and the 44 translucent blocks here. 
http://errortheory.blogspot.com/2005/09/44-dead-people-44-translucent-blocks.html   
)

For anyone who wonders if it could be a coincidence that the original/new 
red maple crescent orients almost precisely on Mecca, note that the Tower of 
Voices section of the memorial also is apparently unchanged. The Tower of 
Voices is surrounded by several crescents of trees. Lines drawn across the 
tips of these crescents also point almost precisely towards Mecca.

Figure 4. 
http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/148/5959/640/Tower%2C%20mecca%20line.jpg 
Crescent array surrounds Tower of Voices. Line across crescent tips points 
almost precisely to Mecca. Calculations here.

This second orientation towards Mecca is necessary to the overall 
terrorist-memorial plan because the Tower of Voices is itself an Islamic 
sundial.

Figure 5. http://photos1.blogger.com/img/148/5959/640/AsrPrayerLine1200.jpg 
Islamic prayer times are determined by shadow length. When the center of the 
crescent at the top of the tower's shadow reaches the outer pink line, the 
time for Islamic afternoon prayers (Asr prayers) has arrived. Notice that 
the prayer line remains contained within the inner arc of trees. Afternoon 
prayer shadows for June 16th (the shortest day of the year) in red; July 
16th (green); August 16th (blue); September 16th (yellow); October 16th 
(orange), mid-November (aqua); and mid-December (fuchsia). The mid-January 
Asr-prayer shadow will be the same as for mid-November. Mid-February will be 
the same as mid-October, etcetera. Prayer times and associated shadow 
calculations here.

When prayer time is reached, Pious Muslims will need to know the direction 
to Mecca: the direction they are supposed to face when they pray. The 
Tower's crescent array gives them this information. All they have to do is 
walk out to the open end of the crescent array and sight across the ends of 
the rows of trees (towards the northeast in figure 4).

Why does the shadow line in Figure 5 have a zig at the end of November? Look 
closely at the tower shadow depicted in Murdoch's graphic. You can see that 
there is a vertical shaft of sunlight making it through about the top fifth 
of the tower. This is because there is a slot cut in the top of the tower 
that early enough in the day allows light to pass through and reach the 
ground. Later in the day sunlight comes through at too steep an angle to 
reach the ground, being intercepted by the crescent arms of the crescent 
cross-section tower. As the months progress towards December and sunset gets 
earlier, afternoon prayer times start coming early enough that light through 
the slot is still reaching the ground when prayer time arrives. Thus the 
bottom of top of the tower's shadow becomes the bottom of the slot, and this 
new lower tower height then becomes the tower height that is used to 
calculate prayer-time shadow length. From the tower graphics, it can be 
determined that this transition occurs near the end of November. Full 
analysis here. 
http://errortheory.blogspot.com/2005/10/crescent-tower-is-islamic-prayer.html

Many of the terrorist-memorial elements of the Murdoch's design have this 
same half-hidden, half-obvious quality. (Litany here. 
http://errortheory.blogspot.com/2005/09/44-dead-people-44-translucent-blocks.html ) 
The redesign, blending the original red crescent into a larger circle of 
trees, but still retaining its defining points, fits this half-hidden 
terrorist-memorial theme exactly. I am surprised Murdoch did not blend the 
red crescent in from the outset. He might have gotten away with it. But we 
cannot let him get away with it now. Paul Murdoch's Flight 93 memorial, both 
originally and in its barely modified incarnation, is not just a bit of P.C. 
openness to Islamic symbolism. It is an explicit and thorough-going shrine 
to the terrorists. Murdoch is an Islamo-fascist. He is one of the enemy, 
trying to plant an Islamo-fascist memorial on the graves of our murdered 
heroes. No other explanation is possible. Please help stop this evil.

UPDATE: Thanks to so many people for stopping by. I'll just add a bit of 
detail, for those who might like to look through the linked back-posts where 
I did my calculations, but would prefer a summary of the most critical 
details.

First, where are the four extra translucent blocks? You can see three of 
them in Figure 3, at the bottom end of the upper section of the memorial 
wall (the terrorist-memorial section of the memorial wall). Here is another 
view:
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/148/5959/640/TrailGapClose.jpg

Figure 6. Close up of gap between lower and upper memorial walls. Forty 
translucent blocks on left. Three on right.

These blocks at the bottom of the terrorist memorial wall are inscribed with 
the date September 11th, 2001. That's right: September 11th belongs to them.

The forty-fourth translucent block is further up the flight path. It is the 
large glass block, sitting at the point of the upper red-crescent tip, that 
dedicates the entire site:
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/148/5959/640/GlassBlockOverlook.jpg

Figure 7. Overlook extending through inner circle of crescent, with large 
glass block at end, dedicating the site. This graphic is from the original 
site-plan PDF's, but the overlook seems to be unchanged in the new design. 
The announcement of the redesign includes an overlook graphic, but without a 
close up detail of the glass block.

LGF commenter aunursa corrects my assertion that the forty name-inscribed 
blocks are dedicated to forty murdered American heroes. Apparently two of 
the heroes were foreign. God bless 'em.

I didn't mean to mislead anyone by originally leaving the full explanation 
of the extra four translucent blocks out of this post. I was just trying to 
summarize my findings, while providing links to my full analyses. Far from 
thinking that the different shaped block at the upper crescent tip weakens 
the "44 death, 44 blocks" interpretation, my full analysis reveals the tying 
together of the upper section of the memorial wall with the large glass 
block to be perhaps the most diabolical feature of the entire structure. 
Feel free to redo my calculations . The large red maple crescent defined in 
the obvious way that I describe above is oriented 1.7 degrees off Mecca, 
enough to create plausible deniability perhaps. But when the large glass 
block is used to define the upper crescent tip, the crescent bisector points 
EXACTLY to Mecca, as close as the pixel resolution of the PDF's can 
determine. (One pixel either way and the line points further away from 
Mecca.) It's a good thing the Islamo-fascist who designed this thing is not 
making bombs, because he would probably be good at it.

There are also a couple of details about my interpretation of the Tower of 
Voices as an Islamic prayer-time sundial that people should know about if 
they are going to take it to heart. Shadow placement will vary with any 
change in either the geometry of the tower or the topography of the ground 
on which the Tower's shadow falls. From the information that is available, 
there are two points of possible deviation from my interpretation.

One is the slope of ground in the direction that the prayer-time shadows 
fall. On level ground, the prayer-time shadows are about 50 meters long. 
According to topo maps, the ground rises in the prayer-shadow direction 
about ten feet in fifty meters (graphics available about a third of the way 
down this post). The site-plan's Tower Section detail shows the tower 
sitting on a built up mound ten feet tall. This would put it right where it 
needs to be to act as the shadow-caster (or gnomon) for an Islamic sundial: 
on level ground. Islamic afternoon prayers are supposed to commence when an 
object's shadow is the length of its noon shadow, plus its height. This can 
only be determined on level ground.

The potential discrepancy here is that the Tower Section detail shows the 
trees in the prayer-shadow direction starting at the level of the ground at 
the bottom of the ten foot mound that the Tower sits on, instead of at the 
height of base of the Tower, as the topo maps indicate. It isn't much of a 
discrepancy because the Tower Section detail is clearly in error on this 
point. Here is the offending graphic:
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/148/5959/640/TowerSection200.jpg

Figure 8. Shows trees in prayer-shadow direction (northeast) to grow from 
well below the base of Tower. Topo maps show they start at the same height 
as the base of the Tower, as a prayer-time sundial would require.

The second possible discrepancy is the depth of the slot cut in the spine of 
the Tower. The CAD generated shadow in Figure 5 shows the slot being 18% of 
the full tower height. This is contradicted by the Tower Section detail, 
which depicts the slot being 8% of the full tower height. The 18% figure 
leads to the jog in the shadow line depicted in my Figure 5. It is the exact 
depth of slot needed to keep the shadow line within the innermost crescent 
of trees, to that the inner crescent can serve as a consistent prayer-time 
indicator. Here is Figure 5 again:

Figure 5.  http://photos1.blogger.com/img/148/5959/640/AsrPrayerLine1200.jpg

Since the Tower Section detail was already misleading about the topography, 
that gives reason to favor the CAD generated slot information. Also, the CAD 
information is what one would expect to be the real information. It is the 
actual 3D design. The PDFs, in contrast, are prettied-up picture boards.

My guess is that Murdoch and his co-conspirators (if he has any) realized 
that any competent sundialist would find them out if they put the accurate 
information in the Tower Section detail, so they phonied up the detail. I'm 
also guessing it was a slip that they let the CAD generated slot value into 
their presentation. Either that or hubris.

Still, there is a caveat here. It could turn out that the actual planned 
slot dimension is 8% of the Tower height and that the Tower array is thus 
not designed to be an accurate Islamic prayer-time sundial. The only way to 
tell for sure is to get hold of Murdoch's computers and look. The many 
terrorist memorializing features of Murdoch's Flight 93 memorial give plenty 
of probable cause to believe that he has perpetrated a fraud against the 
Department of the Interior, which is legal grounds for subpoena of his hard 
drives. Tancredo, Norton, the ball is in your court.
--

-- 
DADL-OT home: http://lists.tesserae.org/listinfo.cgi/dadl-ot-tesserae.org 
Archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.music.dadl.ot 

Michael D. Findlay | 1 Dec 19:59 2005
Picon
Picon

Re: [Bulk] Re: Choice and Consequence

Do you have kids Thom?  12 and 13 year old boys and an 8 year old girl?  Would you want them seeing that?  Would you expect to see it in the middle of the superbowl halftime show?  Do you think it is appropriate family fare for a guy to be forcibly tearing away a woman's clothing? 
 
If you want the airwaves to be a completely free enterprise zone without any restrictions that's fine; vote for the candidate who will give it to you.  But they weren't then and they aren't now; accordingly it is unreasonable for anyone to have anticipated that disgusting stunt.  So this isn't a matter of parents being responsible and monitoring what their kids watch, this is a matter of corporations and individuals subverting, (intentionally or otherwise), a parents ability to exercise that responsibility. 
 
Mike F.
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: dadl-ot-bounces-epjlp/MVrvxLht1zKVN5LB2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org [mailto:dadl-ot-bounces-epjlp/MVrvxLht1zKVN5LB2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of nezmik-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:05
To: dadl-ot-epjlp/MVrvxLht1zKVN5LB2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [DADL-OT] Choice and Consequence

> I dont like overgeneralizing, but I have to agree thart for soem reason this
appears to be a core liberal agenda.

>its almost as if feelings ans understanding trump reponsibility and
consequence.
 
In the past, that may have been true...but I am finding more and more conservatives seem to like the idea of the Government doing our work for us...especially in the area of parenting.  Much of the fallout from the Janet Jackson incident at the Superbowl was concerned conservatives. 
 
Thom
http://www.livejournal.com/users/thomwade/
http://www.in-one-ear.com
_______________________________________
"I have a fear that fulfilling my true potential would really cut into my sittin' around time."~Maria Bamford

"We live as though the world were as it should be. To show it what it can be."~Angel, Deep Down
 

Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List
http://mail.netscape.com

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005

--

-- 
DADL-OT home: http://lists.tesserae.org/listinfo.cgi/dadl-ot-tesserae.org 
Archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.music.dadl.ot 

Gmane