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Douglas Alan | 18 Oct 2006 03:20
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Re: Why does mh-edit-again delete "From: "?

Eric Jensen <jensen <at> hven.astro.swarthmore.edu> wrote:

> Bill Wohler <wohler <at> newt.com> wrote:
> 
> > But remember that `e' can be used on any message, not just ones that you
> > originated. If you didn't take out the From, you could inadvertently
> > send a message with the wrong From. Therefore, this is not an option
> > you'd ever want to set; 

> Well, we could differ about that.  You might not think it's *wise* for
> me to set it, but I sure want to! ;-)   

Okay, so I'm a bit slow in slogging through my mailbox, but I have to
agree with Eric.  I find it endlessly frustrating that "e" doesn't work
the way that I want and expect it to over some seemingly (at least to
me) piddling worry about some usage that I would never want or try to
use anyway.

|>oug

P.S. Great work on MH-E anyway, guys!

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Bill Wohler | 18 Oct 2006 04:19
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Re: Why does mh-edit-again delete "From: "?

Douglas Alan <douglas_alan <at> harvard.edu> wrote:

> Eric Jensen <jensen <at> hven.astro.swarthmore.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Bill Wohler <wohler <at> newt.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > But remember that `e' can be used on any message, not just ones that you
> > > originated. If you didn't take out the From, you could inadvertently
> > > send a message with the wrong From. Therefore, this is not an option
> > > you'd ever want to set; 
> 
> > Well, we could differ about that.  You might not think it's *wise* for
> > me to set it, but I sure want to! ;-)   
> 
> Okay, so I'm a bit slow in slogging through my mailbox, but I have to
> agree with Eric.  I find it endlessly frustrating that "e" doesn't work
> the way that I want and expect it to over some seemingly (at least to
> me) piddling worry about some usage that I would never want or try to
> use anyway.

Can you be more specific about what you want and what MH-E does that
causes a problem for you? Cite a specific use case.

> P.S. Great work on MH-E anyway, guys!

Thanks ;-).

--

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Bill Wohler <wohler <at> newt.com>  http://www.newt.com/wohler/  GnuPG ID:610BD9AD
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Eric Jensen | 18 Oct 2006 04:41

Re: Why does mh-edit-again delete "From: "?

Hi Bill,

Bill Wohler <wohler <at> newt.com> wrote:

> Can you be more specific about what you want and what MH-E does that
> causes a problem for you? Cite a specific use case.

Douglas can respond for himself, but in my case it was just that
mh-edit-again removes the "From" field (which I then always ended up
restoring manually), and doesn't offer a customization option to avoid
that.  In an earlier message, Bill, you had suggested that no one
would/should want to change this behavior.

FWIW, one can work around that by setting the relevant variable manually
in .emacs.  I have this in my .emacs:

(defvar mh-new-draft-cleaned-headers
  "^Date:\\|^Received:\\|^Message-Id:\\|^Sender:\\|^Errors-To:\\|^Delivery-Date:\\|^Return-Path:"
  "Regexp of header lines to remove before offering a message as a new draft\\<mh-folder-mode-map>.
Used by the \\[mh-edit-again] and \\[mh-extract-rejected-mail] commands.")

That's identical to what's in mh-comp.el, minus the "From" entry.

Thanks,

Eric

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Bill Wohler | 18 Oct 2006 06:04
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Re: Why does mh-edit-again delete "From: "?

Eric Jensen <jensen <at> hven.astro.swarthmore.edu> wrote:

> Hi Bill,
> 
> Bill Wohler <wohler <at> newt.com> wrote:
> 
> > Can you be more specific about what you want and what MH-E does that
> > causes a problem for you? Cite a specific use case.
> 
> Douglas can respond for himself, but in my case it was just that
> mh-edit-again removes the "From" field (which I then always ended up
> restoring manually)

I got that. Can you be specific about the content of the deleted and
restored From fields? Is it always the same address that is deleted?
That is restored? What is the one that is automatically inserted by
MH/your MTA if you do not insert a From? And why is that bad? Do you use
an identity and do you have a From in it? If so, what is its content, or
is that not what you want in the From?

I would be curious to hear from both you and Doug.

--

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Bill Wohler <bwohler <at> arc.nasa.com>

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Bill Wohler | 18 Oct 2006 06:29
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Re: Why does mh-edit-again delete "From: "?

Bill Wohler <bwohler <at> arc.nasa.gov> wrote:

> Bill Wohler <bwohler <at> arc.nasa.com>

Whoopsie! Wrong identity ;-).

I guess the word is out. Once I finished the manual, I kind of had to
look for work. This time around, I was looking for something in the
fields of geology, oceanography, or astronomy. I got astronomy. I just
starting working for Orbital at NASA/Ames here in Moffett Field. I'm
writing in Java, not Emacs Lisp ;-). I'm working on the Kepler
terrestrial planet finder mission (kepler.nasa.gov) which is pretty
fracking cool. Check it out.

Way, way off topic, but I thought some of you might care ;-).

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Bill Wohler | 19 Oct 2006 01:56
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What does astronomy and MH-E have in common? (was: Why does mh-edit-again delete "From: "?)

Douglas Alan <douglas_alan <at> harvard.edu> wrote:

> Bill Wohler <wohler <at> newt.com> wrote:
> 
> > I got astronomy. I just starting working for Orbital at NASA/Ames here
> > in Moffett Field. I'm writing in Java, not Emacs Lisp ;-). I'm working
> > on the Kepler terrestrial planet finder mission (kepler.nasa.gov)
> > which is pretty fracking cool. Check it out.
> 
> Very cool!  I worked on the Rossi X-Ray Timing Explorer, myself, for
> quite a few years:
> 
>    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossi_X-ray_Timing_Explorer
> 
> |>oug
> 
> P.S. Gee, I never even know until now that someone made an hour-long
> TV documentary on our telescope.  I guess I'll hae to watch it!

Wow, this list is replete with astronomy folks! Love it!

So, I'll take a chance that you all won't shoot me and...

We do need one more Java engineer. If you or someone you know in the
Moffett Field, CA, area might be interested in joining our team, please
check out http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/sof/219798144.html.

p.s. Guess what: two others on the team use MH. I'm trying to get them
to use MH-E ;-).
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Douglas Alan | 19 Oct 2006 00:38
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Re: Why does mh-edit-again delete "From: "?

Bill Wohler <bwohler <at> arc.nasa.gov> wrote:

> Eric Jensen <jensen <at> hven.astro.swarthmore.edu> wrote:

> > Douglas can respond for himself, but in my case it was just that
> > mh-edit-again removes the "From" field (which I then always ended up
> > restoring manually)

> I got that. Can you be specific about the content of the deleted and
> restored From fields?

Whenever I use "E" to resend a bounced message, my "From:" header gets
completely deleted leaving no "From:" header at all.  This is not good.
At least not for me.  I want the "From:" header to stay what it was
originally.

On the other hand, "E" works even less well when the bounced messages
are MIME-encapsulated, and this seems to be the case most of the time
these days, so perhaps the original complaint is more or less moot.

I'm still running MH-E 7.84, though, so maybe it's all completely fixed
and/or different now.

|>oug

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Douglas Alan | 19 Oct 2006 00:45
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Re: Why does mh-edit-again delete "From: "?

Bill Wohler <wohler <at> newt.com> wrote:

> I got astronomy. I just starting working for Orbital at NASA/Ames here
> in Moffett Field. I'm writing in Java, not Emacs Lisp ;-). I'm working
> on the Kepler terrestrial planet finder mission (kepler.nasa.gov)
> which is pretty fracking cool. Check it out.

Very cool!  I worked on the Rossi X-Ray Timing Explorer, myself, for
quite a few years:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossi_X-ray_Timing_Explorer

|>oug

P.S. Gee, I never even know until now that someone made an hour-long
TV documentary on our telescope.  I guess I'll hae to watch it!

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djh | 19 Oct 2006 09:29
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Re: Why does mh-edit-again delete "From: "?


Input from another.... regarding the case of the mysterious missing "From:" header field and data....

The complaints, (or propositions for an improved way) seem justified to me.  
Rather than have MH-E discard existing fields the decission to delete it or not to delete it belongs to the
writer.  

Leaving the From header field as is, is also the more intuitive approach and people naturally expect it to be
where it was and don't like having to redo it manually.

Perhaps MH-E should be changed to follow the intuitive approach of leaving the from field untouched (to me
and some others anyway) or perhaps a simple flag to set this behavior??

Its my belief that the intuitive ways should be the preferred way.  Anything else, such as molesting the From
header field and its data, should be an option.

Darel Henman

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Bill Wohler | 19 Oct 2006 18:56
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Re: Why does mh-edit-again delete "From: "?

djh <henman <at> it.to-be.co.jp> wrote:

> Its my belief that the intuitive ways should be the preferred way.
> Anything else, such as molesting the From header field and its data,
> should be an option.

It's also intuitive to run across a road without looking (witness the
large populations of roadkill and the parent's deathgrip of their
child's hand near a busy street), but we've been trained to look both
ways first ;-).

As far as I can see, there is only a problem if you define a From in
your components or replcomps file, right? But how many people do this?

The presence of From in your replcomps or components files is not the
default since post will generate one automatically. You can also use
MH-E identities to insert different From header fields (which I do at
work). In both of these cases, removing the From field is not a problem
since one will be subsequently inserted either by the identity system or
automatically by post.

You can also edit mh-new-draft-cleaned-headers accordingly.

How is this insufficient?

If you want `e' to be an analogy of `comp -use', then `e' could then
only operate on your draft or draft folder. You'd also have to manually
delete any superfluous fields (such as Date, Message-ID, and Received)
manually.
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