Re: Localization of Website and Wiki

Hi Lukas,

On 19.08.2011, at 00:05, phpwutz wrote:
> If this is everything for now, I'll start over tomorrow in my 5 hour =
> train travel

how is it going? We're excited about the new web site.

Best regards, Alex

--
http://gpgtools.org

Hi Lukas,

On 19.08.2011, at 00:05, phpwutz wrote:
> If this is everything for now, I'll start over tomorrow in my 5 hour =
> train travel

how is it going? We're excited about the new web site.

Best regards, Alex

--
http://gpgtools.org

Removal of GPG checkbox kills sending signed-only SMIME Messages to new receivers

Hi there,

this is my first try with this dev mailing list so please be kind 

The removal of the GPG checkbox in alpha4 kills sending signed-only SMIME Messages to new receivers. I have
to use GPG and S/MIME with customers and often have to send them signed SMIME messages to give them my key. 

Furthermore with alpha4 if OpenGPG/MIME is enable in prefs now, it is always used. And I now have to decide
before I write an email or draft which system I want to use with this receiver. 

This kills my workflow in more than one way. For people that only use GPG this is a nice feature but I do not
think that it is realistic that you need only one encryption standard.

Cheers

Chris

Re: Removal of GPG checkbox kills sending signed-only SMIME Messages to new receivers

Hi Chris,

Am 04.09.2011 um 23:22 schrieb Christian Schildhorn <chris@...>:

> Hi there,
> 
> this is my first try with this dev mailing list so please be kind 
> 

hehe, only because you asked so nicely

> The removal of the GPG checkbox in alpha4 kills sending signed-only SMIME Messages to new receivers. I
have to use GPG and S/MIME with customers and often have to send them signed SMIME messages to give them my
key. 
> 

This should actually not be the case. As you describe below, S/MIME should be completely activated when
OpenPGP is disabled and the other way around.
Could you please file a bug? Including your console.app log 'cause it might hint to why only-signed
messages can't be sent.

> Furthermore with alpha4 if OpenGPG/MIME is enable in prefs now, it is always used. And I now have to decide
before I write an email or draft which system I want to use with this receiver. 
> 
> This kills my workflow in more than one way. For people that only use GPG this is a nice feature but I do not
think that it is realistic that you need only one encryption standard.
> 

We discussed this some time ago, and actually came to the conclusion that not many people will use S/MIME and
OpenPGP together, which lead to the choice to completely remove the checkbox. Now that there's a real life

Re: Removal of GPG checkbox kills sending signed-only SMIME Messages to new receivers

Hi Lukas,

On 05.09.2011, at 11:25, Lukas Pitschl | Dressy Vagabonds wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> 
> Am 04.09.2011 um 23:22 schrieb Christian Schildhorn <chris@...>:
> 
>> Hi there,
>> 
>> this is my first try with this dev mailing list so please be kind 
>> 
> 
> hehe, only because you asked so nicely
> 
>> The removal of the GPG checkbox in alpha4 kills sending signed-only SMIME Messages to new receivers. I
have to use GPG and S/MIME with customers and often have to send them signed SMIME messages to give them my
key. 
>> 
> 
> This should actually not be the case. As you describe below, S/MIME should be completely activated when
OpenPGP is disabled and the other way around.
> Could you please file a bug? Including your console.app log 'cause it might hint to why only-signed
messages can't be sent.

Sorry there was a understanding problem. It is totally right that disabling the plugin leads to SMIME-only
mode. But I now can only activate that in Mail preferences. And only before opening a new message window.
This is a complete other behavior than given with the checkbox before. It would be no problem for me for
example if GPG is preferred in new messages but there should be a way to switch to SMIME in the new message window.

Re: Removal of GPG checkbox kills sending signed-only SMIME Messages to new receivers

Hi Chris,

Am 05.09.2011 um 12:02 schrieb Christian Schildhorn:

Hi Lukas,

On 05.09.2011, at 11:25, Lukas Pitschl | Dressy Vagabonds wrote:

Hi Chris,

Am 04.09.2011 um 23:22 schrieb Christian Schildhorn <chris@...>:

Hi there,

this is my first try with this dev mailing list so please be kind 

hehe, only because you asked so nicely

The removal of the GPG checkbox in alpha4 kills sending signed-only SMIME Messages to new receivers. I have
to use GPG and S/MIME with customers and often have to send them signed SMIME messages to give them my key. 

This should actually not be the case. As you describe below, S/MIME should be completely activated when
OpenPGP is disabled and the other way around.
Could you please file a bug? Including your console.app log 'cause it might hint to why only-signed
messages can't be sent.

Sorry there was a understanding problem. It is totally right that disabling the plugin leads to SMIME-only
mode. But I now can only activate that in Mail preferences. And only before opening a new message window.
This is a complete other behavior than given with the checkbox before. It would be no problem for me for

Re: Removal of GPG checkbox kills sending signed-only SMIME Messages to new receivers

Hi,

> In conclusion for me it would be the best way to give users in GPGMail preferences the chance to chose the
preferred encryption standard for new mails with a dropdown or something.

I agree.

> If this is possible, a one click on the SMIME - OpenPGP indicator in the upper right corner of the new message
window would be awesome to switch the standard in the new message window. Automatic switch between the
standards after checking SMIME and GPG keys for this email address would be nice to, with respect to in
preferences given encryption standard you could manage the "both keys people" too.

I think there are five cases:

1. The receiver(s) has/have an OpenPGP key
2. The receiver(s) has/have an S/MIME key
3. The receiver(s) has/have OpenPGP and S/MIME keys
4. The receiver(s) has/have no keys
5. The receivers have either OpenPGP or S/MIME keys

I think for cases 1 and 2 the plugin should automatically use the according method for signing and
encrypting. For cases 3 to 5 we should be able to set a "preferred" method - also a click on the upper right
corner to switch the method would be nice. For case 5 it will not be possible to encrypt the message.

> You can even give a checkbox in prefs to disable SMIME for the people how love to disable this.

We should find a solution that reduces the number of options, drop downs and check boxes. I think there is no
need to disabled S/MIME.

> Roman and I talked about this solution a few weeks ago, when the indicator in the right upper corner was introduced.

Re: Removal of GPG checkbox kills sending signed-only SMIME Messages to new receivers

Hi Alexander,

On 05.09.2011, at 13:15, Alexander Willner wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>> In conclusion for me it would be the best way to give users in GPGMail preferences the chance to chose the
preferred encryption standard for new mails with a dropdown or something.
> 
> I agree.
> 
>> If this is possible, a one click on the SMIME - OpenPGP indicator in the upper right corner of the new
message window would be awesome to switch the standard in the new message window. Automatic switch
between the standards after checking SMIME and GPG keys for this email address would be nice to, with
respect to in preferences given encryption standard you could manage the "both keys people" too.
> 
> 
> I think there are five cases:
> 
> 1. The receiver(s) has/have an OpenPGP key
> 2. The receiver(s) has/have an S/MIME key
> 3. The receiver(s) has/have OpenPGP and S/MIME keys
> 4. The receiver(s) has/have no keys
> 5. The receivers have either OpenPGP or S/MIME keys
> 

Presuming 3 means all receiver have both keys and 5 means that e.g. one has PGP and one SMIME:

I think in case 5 you would be even better to give a warning message to the user that "mixed" keys were found and
do not allow encryption. Further before signing they have to choose a standard that will be used to sign. Or

Re: Removal of GPG checkbox kills sending signed-only SMIME Messages to new receivers

Hi,

>> 1. The receiver(s) has/have an OpenPGP key
>> 2. The receiver(s) has/have an S/MIME key
>> 3. The receiver(s) has/have OpenPGP and S/MIME keys
>> 4. The receiver(s) has/have no keys
>> 5. The receivers have either OpenPGP or S/MIME keys
> 
> Presuming 3 means all receiver have both keys and 5 means that e.g. one has PGP and one SMIME:

Correct.

> I think in case 5 you would be even better to give a warning message to the user that "mixed" keys were found
and do not allow encryption.

Since neither S/MIME nor OpenPGP/MIME can be used to select the public key(s) for encryption I strongly
assume that Mail.app already disables the encryption button in this case. We might want to enhance its
tooltip in this case.

> Further before signing they have to choose a standard that will be used to sign. Or the standard method is
used without asking, that's o.k. too.

I think latter might be a good approach: the preferred method from the preferences will be used for use cases
3 to 5 and you should be able to change it by clicking on the upper right corner.

> I thought disabling SMIME was a requested feature by users. But choosing is always better than disabling
for me. 

What is the use case for disabling S/MIME? I can't see an advantage. Mail.app only shows the buttons if the
user has the according keys.

Re: Removal of GPG checkbox kills sending signed-only SMIME Messages to new receivers

Hi Chris,

Am 04.09.2011 um 23:22 schrieb Christian Schildhorn <chris@...>:

> Hi there,
> 
> this is my first try with this dev mailing list so please be kind 
> 

hehe, only because you asked so nicely

> The removal of the GPG checkbox in alpha4 kills sending signed-only SMIME Messages to new receivers. I
have to use GPG and S/MIME with customers and often have to send them signed SMIME messages to give them my
key. 
> 

This should actually not be the case. As you describe below, S/MIME should be completely activated when
OpenPGP is disabled and the other way around.
Could you please file a bug? Including your console.app log 'cause it might hint to why only-signed
messages can't be sent.

> Furthermore with alpha4 if OpenGPG/MIME is enable in prefs now, it is always used. And I now have to decide
before I write an email or draft which system I want to use with this receiver. 
> 
> This kills my workflow in more than one way. For people that only use GPG this is a nice feature but I do not
think that it is realistic that you need only one encryption standard.
> 

We discussed this some time ago, and actually came to the conclusion that not many people will use S/MIME and
OpenPGP together, which lead to the choice to completely remove the checkbox. Now that there's a real life

S/MIME and openPGP use cases

All,

	Alex invited me to raise developer discussion on concurrent handling of S/MIME and open PGP.

	My use case is that by default I wish to use S/MIME for recipients for which I have an appropriate digital ID
certificate.  ( This represents internal communication within my company )

	However customers often only use openPGP, so I would like to be able to select  ( and have visible ) on a
message by message basis which method will be invoked.

	If the following certs/email addresses are used, how will GPGMail present indicators showing the action
that will be taken.

	a <at> z.com   S/MIME   openPGP
	b <at> z.com   S/MIME   openPGP  
	c <at> y.com   openPGP

	Mail to a <at> z.om , b <at> z.com , c <at> y.com   ( I'm guessing here the only options are openPGP as thats the only option
available to the complete set or no encryption  )

		For this I'd like to see the padlock and the signing cross tick available for clicking, and an indicator
reminding me that openPGP will me used as the method

	Mail to a <at> z.om 

	Here, either openPGP or S/MIME are valid. Therefore I'd like to actively select the method to be used  (i'e
rather explicitly choose S/MIME or openPGP via a dropdownrather than just have an unticked openPGP
checkbox have the default meaning of S/MIME. I'd like to be able to do this on a per message basis ( i.e. from
the compose window ) rather than keep having to go back to global preferences pane.