Alpine Messaging System info ()

Joe(theWordy)Philbrook | 1 Sep 2009 03:34

Re: Attaching another mail in a reply


It would appear that on Aug 31, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo did say:

> So back to others, is there anyway to completely attach other e-mail in my
> mailboxes in a reply to other e-mail (not a forward) as Message/RFC822 mime
> attachment?

Depends... if the recipients threaded view which depends on the
"References:" & "Reply-To:" header fields is important to you then all
you can do is a quoted reply to multiple messages. 

	First, if you want to include any attachments you will have to
	use 'V' in the appropriate message, then select the attachment
	and use 'S' to save the attachment as a file... Once any
	attachments are saved, with aggregate commands on, select the messages
	then press 'A' to start the apply to all selected dialog. Then choose
	'R' to begin the reply.... Depending on your: [ Reply Preferences ]
	settings you will get each selected message quoted in the reply... 

	Then use ^J to reattach the saved attachments and edit your
	reply as desired... 

But if you really need to include the messages your replying to as a
mime digest then I think your stuck with the forward method...
see my forwarded reply with the subject line of:

Re: Attaching another mail in a reply (fwd)

Assuming it doesn't bounce back at me for being too big for gmane or
the list...

(Continue reading)

Jeremy C. Reed | 1 Sep 2009 15:43

turn off X-UID scan when appending message to mbox?

I just read the threads for "Saving messages is incredibly slow in 1.10" 
(February 2009). (Tom: I bcc'd you. If you have a solution for this, 
please let me know.)

I am running Alpine 2.00. I am not using IMAP.

Saving messages is frustratingly slow. Note that I use a filesystem 
mounted with "sync". I have been using Pine for nearly 15 years, without 
the slow save. But I recently switched to Alpine where I notice this.

My standard use of email is to press "s" on individual emails as I read my 
mailbox to file them into a different mailbox. It sometimes takes 20 
seconds or more now (before it would take less than a second and didn't 
cause any problem to my workflow). My workaround now is to mark multiple 
messages and then save them all at once. But that is still very slow and 
doesn't help when I want to save to different mboxes.

How can I make alpine just append the message to the mbox? As far as I 
know I don't need or use the X-UID. (I have coded and maintained a POP3 
server, an outbound SMTP sendmail replacement, mailing list managers, and 
multiple mbox tools.)

I see some of my mboxes have the X-UID headers, but I don't know where 
they came from or why some have them and some don't. Some are these that 
do and don't have them were last touched in 2000 and various years since, 
but I can't see any pattern. 

I tried to read through alpine-2.00/imap/src/osdep/unix/unix.c but didn't 
see any option to turn this off. I also looked at 
http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/alpine-info/misc/headers.html#X-UID

(Continue reading)

Mark Crispin | 1 Sep 2009 17:59

Re: turn off X-UID scan when appending message to mbox?

mbox format has been obsolete for nearly 2 decades.  It comes from a time 
when most people's disk quotas were in KB (64K being typical) and a 1MB 
file was unbelievably huge.

Since that time, the world has added requirements upon mail stores that 
mbox can not fulfill well.  I fought long and hard to prevent those 
requirements from being imposed, because I knew of the cost to mbox 
format.  I lost.  In the process, I was regularly screamed at for wanting 
to uphold compatibility with something as obsolete and archaic as mbox 
format.

You may think that those requirements do not apply to you, and that you 
should not have to pay the cost of fulfilling those requirements.  You may 
be correct for your particular situation at the present time.

However, Alpine has no way of knowing that you are one of the rare exempt 
individuals; nor when your circumstances change.

Suppose you successfully hack Alpine so that it doesn't fulfill the 
requirements, or persuade the re-alpine guys to do it for you.  Only 
problem is, unbeknownst to you, you have a dependency in some other 
software that you run.  Now you have a worse problem.

The fun thing is that it won't show up right away.  It shows up somewhat 
later, in obscure and seemingly unrelated ways such as "why does 
Thunderbird download all of my messages every time I run it?"

All this is why Alpine fulfills the requirements even though it's a pain 
in the ass for mbox.  The task is not at all costly for more modern 
mailbox formats which were designed with that task in mind from the onset;

(Continue reading)

S P Arif Sahari Wibowo | 2 Sep 2009 01:52

Picon

Mix should replace mbx? (Re: turn off X-UID scan when appending message to mbox?)

Forking this thread...

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, Mark Crispin wrote:
> specifically mbx and especially mix format.
...
> 	http://www.washington.edu/imap/IMAP-FAQs/index.html#4.5
>
> That FAQ was written before mix existed; but if you substitute 
> "mix" for "mbx" in that FAQ the information still applies.

At this point of implementation, is there any reason left to 
keep mbx mailboxes instead of migrating it to mix format?

I vaguely remember a discussion about corruption risk with mix 
mailbox. Is that still an issue? Of course mbx can become 
corrupt as well.

Thanks!

--

-- 
    ____  ____  ____  ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo
   /___  /___/ /___/ /___      http://www.arifsaha.com/
  ____/ /     /   / ____/

Mark Crispin | 2 Sep 2009 02:47

Re: Mix should replace mbx? (Re: turn off X-UID scan when appending message to mbox?)

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote:
> At this point of implementation, is there any reason left to keep mbx 
> mailboxes instead of migrating it to mix format?

I see no reason to delete support for mbx format, and I certainly won't do 
such a thing.

mbx format is an older (1996) technology.  mbx format consumes less disk 
space; and is a flat file which some people may find preferable.  It does 
work quite a bit better than traditional UNIX (mbox) format.

With that said, I converted all my personal mailboxes to mix format and 
never looked back.

> I vaguely remember a discussion about corruption risk with mix mailbox. Is 
> that still an issue? Of course mbx can become corrupt as well.

At this stage, mix is probably more robust and less vulnerable to 
corruption than mbx (and, for that matter, traditional UNIX) format.

However, note that neither mbx nor mix are supported on NFS filesystems.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

Jeremy C. Reed | 2 Sep 2009 03:33

Re: turn off X-UID scan when appending message to mbox?

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, Mark Crispin wrote:

> You may think that those requirements do not apply to you, and that you 
> should not have to pay the cost of fulfilling those requirements.  You 
> may be correct for your particular situation at the present time.
> 
> However, Alpine has no way of knowing that you are one of the rare exempt
> individuals; nor when your circumstances change.

I'd make it an option then, not on by default.

> Suppose you successfully hack Alpine so that it doesn't fulfill the 
> requirements, or persuade the re-alpine guys to do it for you.  Only 
> problem is, unbeknownst to you, you have a dependency in some other 
> software that you run.  Now you have a worse problem.

I still don't understand. As I don't recall any problem for past 15 years 
and I didn't have a noticable slow down when pressing "s" to append my 
message. (I can agree that a missing X-UID is a big problem for others -- 
I just don't see it or understand it myself.)

Did my older pine also check and add these X-UID headers? If so, why 
wasn't it slow? (I can look at that code too.)

> The fun thing is that it won't show up right away.  It shows up somewhat 
> later, in obscure and seemingly unrelated ways such as "why does 
> Thunderbird download all of my messages every time I run it?"

I am confused by this example. Does Thunderbird support mix or mbx 
alternatives? I don't use thunderbird. But from a quick search of its

(Continue reading)

Mark Crispin | 2 Sep 2009 03:49

Re: turn off X-UID scan when appending message to mbox?

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, Jeremy C. Reed wrote:
> I'd make it an option then, not on by default.

Ah yes, yet another option for users to set wrong and them complain when 
they get screwed.

> I still don't understand. As I don't recall any problem for past 15 years
> and I didn't have a noticable slow down when pressing "s" to append my
> message. (I can agree that a missing X-UID is a big problem for others --
> I just don't see it or understand it myself.)

You used Pine, not Alpine.

The most recent version of Pine is several years old.  It is distributed 
with bundled software, such as the IMAP server, that is also of that 
vintage.

Alpine is newer vintage.  It is distributed with bundled software of the 
newer vintage.

> Did my older pine also check and add these X-UID headers? If so, why
> wasn't it slow? (I can look at that code too.)

No, Pine did not.  And Pine will screw things up in the way I describe 
when used with newer bundled software.

>> The fun thing is that it won't show up right away.  It shows up somewhat
>> later, in obscure and seemingly unrelated ways such as "why does
>> Thunderbird download all of my messages every time I run it?"
> I am confused by this example. Does Thunderbird support mix or mbx

(Continue reading)

S P Arif Sahari Wibowo | 2 Sep 2009 04:47

Picon

Re: Mix should replace mbx? (Re: turn off X-UID scan when appending message to mbox?)

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, Mark Crispin wrote:
> I see no reason to delete support for mbx format,

No, no, no, I was talking about my mailboxes, not c-client code. 


> At this stage, mix is probably more robust and less vulnerable 
> to corruption than mbx (and, for that matter, traditional 
> UNIX) format.

Sounds good. I guess I should try it, starting with *this* 
mailbox. 

--

-- 
    ____  ____  ____  ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo
   /___  /___/ /___/ /___      http://www.arifsaha.com/
  ____/ /     /   / ____/

Matt Ackeret | 5 Sep 2009 02:27

Picon

Full text searching progress question...


I realize this is almost certainly never going to happen (unless I do it)..

But for curiousity's sake:

If I do a full text search, is that done on the server or locally?

If done locally, it could theoretically have some kind of progress (besides
the spinny cursor), right?

Because of differing message sizes, a percentage meter would be inaccurate
(but still IMHO probably "good enough").

Even if it said something like

Searching X of Y
instead of 
Busy

with X incrementing to Y of course, that would be more informative than it
is now.

If it's all done on the server, then I guess this is even more moot.

I don't do full text searches too often, as you can probably tell.

Mark Crispin | 5 Sep 2009 02:31

Re: Full text searching progress question...

On Fri, 4 Sep 2009, Matt Ackeret wrote:
> If I do a full text search, is that done on the server or locally?

On the server if IMAP.  Locally for any other format.

> If it's all done on the server, then I guess this is even more moot.

That's right.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

Group

gmane.mail.alpine.info.

Project Web Page

Alpine Messaging System info ()

Search Archive

Page

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11

Articles in period: 107

September 2009

Language

Change language

Options

Current view: Threads only / Showing only 20 lines / Not hiding cited text.
Change to All messages, whole messages, or hide cited text.

Post a message
NNTP Newsgroup
Classic Gmane web interface
XML

XML

RSS Feed
List Information

About Gmane

Recent entries

crash when mailbox accessed by another program (23 May 2013)
how to send message with attachment from crontab? (20 May 2013)
Backend mailbox manipulation/parsing tools? (17 May 2013)
can't figure out how to imap gmail with alpine 2.00 (ala opensuse) (15 May 2013)
conditional cursor positioning (10 May 2013)
Composing - Cc required (30 Apr 2013)
Composing - Cc required (30 Apr 2013)
header title's colors (27 Apr 2013)
getting a signature sometimes (24 Apr 2013)
How to prevent saving sent attachments (7 Apr 2013)
NTLM auth (28 Mar 2013)
No line breaks in GMX for TEXT/PLAIN (20 Mar 2013)
Unable to connect to yahoo inbox (18 Mar 2013)
Alpine 2.03 and password (8 Mar 2013)
different user-domain for each role (27 Feb 2013)
gb18030 charset email (18 Feb 2013)
Alpine 2.10 Released! (15 Jan 2013)
how to disable: Use Compose command to continue interrupted message (14 Jan 2013)
Mark Crispin has passed away (10 Jan 2013)
saving multiple attachments doesn't work (10 Jan 2013)
[PATCH] fix compiler warnings (1 Jan 2013)

Archives

20	May 2013
21	April 2013
23	March 2013
8	February 2013
32	January 2013
13	December 2012
34	November 2012
18	October 2012
13	September 2012
17	August 2012
21	July 2012
32	June 2012
19	May 2012
45	April 2012
28	March 2012
48	February 2012
63	January 2012
11	December 2011
118	November 2011
82	October 2011
61	September 2011
43	August 2011
52	July 2011
16	June 2011
49	May 2011
60	April 2011
95	March 2011
20	February 2011
103	January 2011
33	December 2010
12	November 2010
66	October 2010
72	September 2010
104	August 2010
126	July 2010
49	June 2010
93	May 2010
83	April 2010
72	March 2010
32	February 2010
143	January 2010
147	December 2009
48	November 2009
72	October 2009
107	September 2009
82	August 2009
111	July 2009
109	June 2009
101	May 2009
56	April 2009
272	March 2009
152	February 2009
89	January 2009
107	December 2008
95	November 2008
78	October 2008
86	September 2008
108	August 2008
123	July 2008
108	June 2008
209	May 2008
73	April 2008
183	March 2008
133	February 2008
183	January 2008
7	December 2007

Design

Zawodny | Right Menu | Left Menu

Your Own Design

Paste the URL of your CSS below. Download CSS template