Pedro Kröger | 20 Oct 2008 23:43
Picon

lisp FAQ status


Hi guys,

(I'm sorry I took longer than I said I would, but I had to update my
server before I did any work on the faq.)

I tested ikiwiki [1] and phpmyfaq [2] as two potential technologies to
store the lisp FAQ. As a preview of each tool, I put two "mock" lisp
FAQs [3] available on my server, one using ikiwiki:

    http://genos.mus.br/lispfaq/

and the other using phpmyfaq:

    http://genos.mus.br/lispfaq2/

feel free to play with them.

here is my list of pros and cons for ikiwiki:

* pros
  - can be edited on-line (just like a wiki) and off-line (it uses git)
  - simple and clean
  - uses a "standard" format (markdown)
  - very css friendly (all visual things can be changed)
  - has a page for discussion (like wikipedia)
  - distributed: each git clone is a full repo of the wiki. If I decide
  to go nuts and live in the Bahamas (not a bad idea) the lisp faq can
  be easily set up by anyone with a git clone

(Continue reading)

Chris Smith | 21 Oct 2008 09:54
Picon

Re: lisp FAQ status

They both look fine. Since you've gone to the trouble of setting up both, I'm happy to go with your recommendation. I do like the idea of having a discussion page though.

Tonight I'll try adding some content to both and give you some more feedback.

Chris

2008/10/21 Pedro Kröger <kroger.lists <at> gmail.com>

Hi guys,

(I'm sorry I took longer than I said I would, but I had to update my
server before I did any work on the faq.)

I tested ikiwiki [1] and phpmyfaq [2] as two potential technologies to
store the lisp FAQ. As a preview of each tool, I put two "mock" lisp
FAQs [3] available on my server, one using ikiwiki:

   http://genos.mus.br/lispfaq/

and the other using phpmyfaq:

   http://genos.mus.br/lispfaq2/

feel free to play with them.

here is my list of pros and cons for ikiwiki:

* pros
 - can be edited on-line (just like a wiki) and off-line (it uses git)
 - simple and clean
 - uses a "standard" format (markdown)
 - very css friendly (all visual things can be changed)
 - has a page for discussion (like wikipedia)
 - distributed: each git clone is a full repo of the wiki. If I decide
 to go nuts and live in the Bahamas (not a bad idea) the lisp faq can
 be easily set up by anyone with a git clone

* cons
 - not really a faq manager
 - has no top 10 list or rating system

here is my list of pros and cons for myphpfaq:

* pros
 - professional feel (whatever that means)
 - user can ask questions without signing in
 - bells and whistles: top 10 lists, rating, last five questions, etc
 - translation system (want a faq in Latvian?)

* cons
 - too complex (bureaucratic) to admin. each faq item has to be
 approved by the admin
 - too bondage and discipline (grab your whip, kwaa-tissshhh!)
 - centralized: the whole thing is in a mysql database. what if I go to
 the Bahamas and forget to backup?
 - no "standard" format

My personal choice is ikiwiki. I really love being able to edit pages
off-line with emacs (git push updates the wiki automagically). OTOH,
maybe phpmyfaq will be easier for beginners. What do you think?

(I collected all lisp-related questions I could find in a gigantic
org-mode file and I'm ready to populate the new-new-new-new faq)

Pedro

Footnotes:
[1] http://ikiwiki.info/

[2] http://www.phpmyfaq.de/

[3] just a few questions on each faq so you can get the flavor for each
system

--
GNU/Linux user: 77786
GPG ID: 8749A953
http://kroger.lisp-br.org/index-en.html
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Aleksandr Simma | 21 Oct 2008 10:16
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Re: lisp FAQ status

Agreed -- they both look great!

Honestly, I suspect that the wiki one is a better idea because
anything that requires continuous maintence is problematic.  If you
get busy, lose interest, etc, the wiki will still be a useful resource
that others could update with minimal effort on you part, whereas the
faq one will require lots of your time.

One question you should investigate is how prone both are to
vandalism.  That's pretty annoying.

Thanks for the work so far,
Alex

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 12:54 AM, Chris Smith <maximinus@...> wrote:
> They both look fine. Since you've gone to the trouble of setting up both,
> I'm happy to go with your recommendation. I do like the idea of having a
> discussion page though.
>
> Tonight I'll try adding some content to both and give you some more
> feedback.
>
> Chris
>
> 2008/10/21 Pedro Kröger <kroger.lists@...>
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> (I'm sorry I took longer than I said I would, but I had to update my
>> server before I did any work on the faq.)
>>
>> I tested ikiwiki [1] and phpmyfaq [2] as two potential technologies to
>> store the lisp FAQ. As a preview of each tool, I put two "mock" lisp
>> FAQs [3] available on my server, one using ikiwiki:
>>
>>    http://genos.mus.br/lispfaq/
>>
>> and the other using phpmyfaq:
>>
>>    http://genos.mus.br/lispfaq2/
>>
>> feel free to play with them.
>>
>> here is my list of pros and cons for ikiwiki:
>>
>> * pros
>>  - can be edited on-line (just like a wiki) and off-line (it uses git)
>>  - simple and clean
>>  - uses a "standard" format (markdown)
>>  - very css friendly (all visual things can be changed)
>>  - has a page for discussion (like wikipedia)
>>  - distributed: each git clone is a full repo of the wiki. If I decide
>>  to go nuts and live in the Bahamas (not a bad idea) the lisp faq can
>>  be easily set up by anyone with a git clone
>>
>> * cons
>>  - not really a faq manager
>>  - has no top 10 list or rating system
>>
>> here is my list of pros and cons for myphpfaq:
>>
>> * pros
>>  - professional feel (whatever that means)
>>  - user can ask questions without signing in
>>  - bells and whistles: top 10 lists, rating, last five questions, etc
>>  - translation system (want a faq in Latvian?)
>>
>> * cons
>>  - too complex (bureaucratic) to admin. each faq item has to be
>>  approved by the admin
>>  - too bondage and discipline (grab your whip, kwaa-tissshhh!)
>>  - centralized: the whole thing is in a mysql database. what if I go to
>>  the Bahamas and forget to backup?
>>  - no "standard" format
>>
>> My personal choice is ikiwiki. I really love being able to edit pages
>> off-line with emacs (git push updates the wiki automagically). OTOH,
>> maybe phpmyfaq will be easier for beginners. What do you think?
>>
>> (I collected all lisp-related questions I could find in a gigantic
>> org-mode file and I'm ready to populate the new-new-new-new faq)
>>
>> Pedro
>>
>> Footnotes:
>> [1] http://ikiwiki.info/
>>
>> [2] http://www.phpmyfaq.de/
>>
>> [3] just a few questions on each faq so you can get the flavor for each
>> system
>>
>> --
>> GNU/Linux user: 77786
>> GPG ID: 8749A953
>> http://kroger.lisp-br.org/index-en.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gardeners mailing list
>> Gardeners@...
>> http://www.lispniks.com/mailman/listinfo/gardeners
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gardeners mailing list
> Gardeners@...
> http://www.lispniks.com/mailman/listinfo/gardeners
>
>
Pedro Kröger | 21 Oct 2008 12:31
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Re: lisp FAQ status

"Aleksandr Simma" <bsdfish@...> writes:

> Honestly, I suspect that the wiki one is a better idea because
> anything that requires continuous maintence is problematic.  

I agree. the phpfaq is pretty havy maintence.

> One question you should investigate is how prone both are to
> vandalism.  That's pretty annoying.

phpmyfaq has capcha (which I disabled) and to edit ikiwiki pages one has
to have an openid.

Pedro
Chris Smith | 21 Oct 2008 13:44
Picon

Re: lisp FAQ status

Any chance you can let us edit them and start to add content?

I know you have 2 concurrent systems up, but since you have gone this far I'm eager to start adding some stuff and playing around with them.

If I have missed something obvious on either of the pages, feel free to slap me ;-)

Chris

2008/10/21 Pedro Kröger <kroger.lists <at> gmail.com>
"Aleksandr Simma" <bsdfish-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Honestly, I suspect that the wiki one is a better idea because
> anything that requires continuous maintence is problematic.

I agree. the phpfaq is pretty havy maintence.

> One question you should investigate is how prone both are to
> vandalism.  That's pretty annoying.

phpmyfaq has capcha (which I disabled) and to edit ikiwiki pages one has
to have an openid.

Pedro

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Gardeners mailing list
Gardeners-0Lpivb7LZrJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org
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Pedro Kröger | 21 Oct 2008 13:55
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Re: lisp FAQ status

"Chris Smith" <maximinus@...> writes:

> Any chance you can let us edit them and start to add content?

> I know you have 2 concurrent systems up, but since you have gone this far I'm eager to start adding some stuff and
> playing around with them.

sure, that't the idea of setting them up.

to edit the wiki just click on the "edit" page and enter your openid id.
(I suppose you couldn't do it before because my webserver was
misconfigured, but it should be ok now).

to add content (a question with an answer) to phpmyfaq just click on the
"add content" tab and fill the form. the question will not appear on the
site right away (the admin will have to aprove it)

please let me know if you have more problems.

Cheers,

Pedro
Chris Smith | 21 Oct 2008 14:43
Picon

Re: lisp FAQ status

Ok, it seems to be working fine now.

I'm probably a little too drunk to be writing Lisp faqs though (it's almost nine in the evening out here in north-east China!) so I'll probably get round to writing something tomorrow night.

Chris

2008/10/21 Pedro Kröger <kroger.lists <at> gmail.com>
"Chris Smith" <maximinus-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Any chance you can let us edit them and start to add content?

> I know you have 2 concurrent systems up, but since you have gone this far I'm eager to start adding some stuff and
> playing around with them.

sure, that't the idea of setting them up.

to edit the wiki just click on the "edit" page and enter your openid id.
(I suppose you couldn't do it before because my webserver was
misconfigured, but it should be ok now).

to add content (a question with an answer) to phpmyfaq just click on the
"add content" tab and fill the form. the question will not appear on the
site right away (the admin will have to aprove it)

please let me know if you have more problems.

Cheers,

Pedro
_______________________________________________
Gardeners mailing list
Gardeners-0Lpivb7LZrJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org
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Micheal McEvoy | 21 Oct 2008 19:58
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Re: lisp FAQ status

I prefer the ikiwiki version, not so much due to appearance, but to 
function.

I share the expressed concerns about MySQL admin and access.

Simplicity is a slowly diminishing realm in the technology world today.

Micheal
-- 
Micheal McEvoy                      mac.fhiodhbhuidhe@...
Comanche, Texas

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Pedro Kr?ger wrote:

>
> Hi guys,
>
> (I'm sorry I took longer than I said I would, but I had to update my
> server before I did any work on the faq.)
>
> I tested ikiwiki [1] and phpmyfaq [2] as two potential technologies to
> store the lisp FAQ. As a preview of each tool, I put two "mock" lisp
> FAQs [3] available on my server, one using ikiwiki:
>
>    http://genos.mus.br/lispfaq/
>
> and the other using phpmyfaq:
>
>    http://genos.mus.br/lispfaq2/
>
> feel free to play with them.
>
> here is my list of pros and cons for ikiwiki:
>
> * pros
>  - can be edited on-line (just like a wiki) and off-line (it uses git)
>  - simple and clean
>  - uses a "standard" format (markdown)
>  - very css friendly (all visual things can be changed)
>  - has a page for discussion (like wikipedia)
>  - distributed: each git clone is a full repo of the wiki. If I decide
>  to go nuts and live in the Bahamas (not a bad idea) the lisp faq can
>  be easily set up by anyone with a git clone
>
> * cons
>  - not really a faq manager
>  - has no top 10 list or rating system
>
> here is my list of pros and cons for myphpfaq:
>
> * pros
>  - professional feel (whatever that means)
>  - user can ask questions without signing in
>  - bells and whistles: top 10 lists, rating, last five questions, etc
>  - translation system (want a faq in Latvian?)
>
> * cons
>  - too complex (bureaucratic) to admin. each faq item has to be
>  approved by the admin
>  - too bondage and discipline (grab your whip, kwaa-tissshhh!)
>  - centralized: the whole thing is in a mysql database. what if I go to
>  the Bahamas and forget to backup?
>  - no "standard" format
>
> My personal choice is ikiwiki. I really love being able to edit pages
> off-line with emacs (git push updates the wiki automagically). OTOH,
> maybe phpmyfaq will be easier for beginners. What do you think?
>
> (I collected all lisp-related questions I could find in a gigantic
> org-mode file and I'm ready to populate the new-new-new-new faq)
>
> Pedro
>
> Footnotes:
> [1] http://ikiwiki.info/
>
> [2] http://www.phpmyfaq.de/
>
> [3] just a few questions on each faq so you can get the flavor for each
> system
>
>
Pedro Kröger | 26 Oct 2008 13:54
Picon

Re: lisp FAQ status

Micheal McEvoy <mac.fhiodhbhuidhe@...> writes:

> I prefer the ikiwiki version, not so much due to appearance, but to 
> function.
>
> I share the expressed concerns about MySQL admin and access.

so ikiwiki it is. I will shutdown the phpfaq site and start puting real
content in the wiki.

Cheers,

Pedro
Chris Smith | 27 Oct 2008 13:49
Picon

Re: lisp FAQ status

Added some simple content tonight for the first time.

I want to concentrate on some real newbie stuff, so forgive me if what I add seems simple. I also feel it's important to actually *write stuff* to get the ball rolling, as it were. "Just do it" as someone said once. Don't want an empty wiki, do we?

-- Chris

2008/10/26 Pedro Kröger <kroger.lists <at> gmail.com>
Micheal McEvoy <mac.fhiodhbhuidhe-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> I prefer the ikiwiki version, not so much due to appearance, but to
> function.
>
> I share the expressed concerns about MySQL admin and access.

so ikiwiki it is. I will shutdown the phpfaq site and start puting real
content in the wiki.

Cheers,

Pedro
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