From: goof <at> coppernet.zm <goof <at> coppernet.zm>
Subject: Re: Who speaks Frist: Human or Computer
To: "Dennis Baudys" <thecondor <at> arcor.de>
Cc: ubuntu-translators <at> lists.ubuntu.com
Date: Monday, 7 May, 2012, 14:27

#yiv726588852 p {margin:0;}

Hi Dennis

So in German, you just state an action to be performed as a way of avoiding the use of Du or Sie? 

When you see a menu item "Datei öffnen" does it give a sense that the human expects the computer to Open the file while the computer quietly goes ahead and carries out the request? Is there a distinction with social 'behaviour' in this manner of acting such that the people expect that this is only ok if dealing with a computer?

thanks

Anthony

From: "Dennis Baudys" <thecondor <at> arcor.de>
To: goof <at> coppernet.zm
Cc: ubuntu-translators <at> lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 2:45:16 PM
Subject: Re: Who speaks Frist: Human or Computer

Hi Anthony!

Am Montag, den 07.05.2012, 12:35 +0200 schrieb goof <at> coppernet.zm:
> Hello fellow translators,
>
>
> I have hit what I might call a big problem with my language, Bemba. In
> this language, the way we address a young person is different to the
> the way we address an older person in speech and writing.

In German, we do that too. There is a difference between
»Du« (young/informal) and »Sie« (elderly/formal).

In the German translation, we _never_ use the young/informal type. Maybe
the young/informal type can be found in old translations of games, but
imho this is not correct and has to be fixed some day.

> When I started to translate Ubuntu from English to Bemba, I assumed
> that the computer is telling the user what it can do and so is in a
> way talking to the person first.

In German, we nearly never use direct speech. That means, the computer
does not »speak« to the user. The messages are most often phrases in the
infinitive and passive form (a few exemptions are to be made for direct
dialog prompts like »Do you really want to quit?«).

> Because of this, I chose to use the respectful alternative to
> addressing a human user. This way the computer will always sound like
> it is not being rude to the user. This approach has presented a small
> problem with some people who have reviewed some of my translations.
> They are of the opinion that I should always assume that the user is
> telling the computer to do something, thus the instruction should be
> like a human talking to someone they supervise in order for them do
> have something done for them. The respectful manner should only be
> used by the computer when it displays something as a reaction to the
> user input.
>
>
> An example is 'Open File'. The question is: In this case, is the menu
> item in the computer application telling the human that it able to
> open a file or it is the human who is telling the computer to open the
> file? I ask this because depending on which is which, my translations
> approach will have a whole new twist and I would have to re-check my
> approach.

In menu items, the German translators team always use the infinitive,
like that: »Datei öffnen« (correct) instead of »Öffnen Sie die
Datei« (bad) or »Öffne (Du) die Datei« (very bad).

> Please advise if any of you have  such a language challenge and what
> side you have taken: Is it the human that tell the computer what to do
> such that its responses are only when a dialogue box opens or it is
> the computer that tells the human what it can do and so seems to
> 'speak' first and advises the human of what it is able to do? …

Hopefully that helps.

Kind Regards,

--
Dennis Baudys

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From: Dennis Baudys <thecondor <at> arcor.de>
Subject: Re: Who speaks Frist: Human or Computer
To: goof <at> coppernet.zm
Cc: ubuntu-translators <at> lists.ubuntu.com
Date: Monday, 7 May, 2012, 14:44

Am Montag, den 07.05.2012, 15:27 +0200 schrieb goof <at> coppernet.zm:
> Hi Dennis
>
>
> So in German, you just state an action to be performed as a way of
> avoiding the use of Du or Sie?

Yes. »Du« will _never_ be used. »Sie« will be avoided wherever possible
(with very few exemptions like dialog prompts and user instructions in
manuals etc.).

> When you see a menu item "Datei öffnen" does it give a sense that the
> human expects the computer to Open the file while the computer quietly
> goes ahead and carries out the request?

Exactly.

> Is there a distinction with social 'behaviour' in this manner of
> acting such that the people expect that this is only ok if dealing
> with a computer?

Correct. People do not talk like this to each other. This is only used
in interactions with machines (however this is a high standard that not
all translators of Software besides Ubuntu follow in the wild).

Regards,

--
Dennis Baudys

      email: thecondor <at> arcor.de
GPG key-ID: E4A9FB08
fingerprint: CB9A 86FF 1C20 0426 3912
             0276 3A78 E23F E4A9 FB08

Prüfer im deutschen Ubuntu-Übersetzer-Team

  launchpad: ~thecondordb

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