Rolf-Werner Eilert | 1 Oct 09:20 2008
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Re: A crisis of LTSP faith.

And I saw once more the difference to a native speaker: didn't even 
notice any problem in that sentence, just accepting and understanding it...

Still learning :-)

Rolf

David Burgess schrieb:
> Not that you were unclear, I just couldn't resist the opportunity to poke fun.
> 
> db
> 
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Jordan Erickson
> <jerickson@...> wrote:
>> Heh, sorry David, I was cut/pasting on my Asus EEE. What I meant was,
>>
>> "For example, FIREFOX doesn't crash during normal browsing or using Java
>> applets"
>>
>> I.E.  - probably shouldn't have used that abbreviation, at least in the
>> context of browsers - although your refined statement DOES tend to make
>> more sense. ;)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jordan
>>
>> David Burgess wrote:
>>> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Jordan Erickson
>>> <jerickson@...> wrote:
>>>
(Continue reading)

Rob Owens | 1 Oct 19:11 2008

Re: A crisis of LTSP faith.

I did some testing for you on a few of my systems.

CentOS / LTSP 4.2 -- music works, but sound on YouTube doesn't.  I
installed an Alsa-ESD package to get music to work.  I didn't do
anything in attempt to get YouTube sound to work, but I hear there are
some using it successfully.

Debian Etch / LTSP 4.2 -- The one Java Applet I tested worked.

Debian Lenny / LTSP 5 -- music works.  I tried to test YouTube, but I'm
running a 64-bit system which makes installing Adobe Flash a bit of a
hassle.  I installed Gnash, and YouTube didn't like it (I wasn't even
allowed to hit "play" -- I guess it detected that flash wasn't installed).

-Rob

Jordan Erickson wrote:
> Rob/all,
> 
> I've been following this thread closely, and it seems a LOT of people 
> are still on LTSP 4.2 and either CentOS or Debian.
> 
> I have to ask, being an Ubuntu-only LTSP shop (right now, anyway) - are 
> there issues regarding Firefox? OpenOffice? Crashes of any kind? Do you 
> use Java web browser plugins? Flash? Light multimedia? How do they 
> perform under 4.2 and your distro compared to LTSP 5? My clients require 
> all of these things, and if there's a distribution other than Ubuntu 
> that can provide all of these things, with increased stability, it might 
> be worth trying (even if it means reverting back to 4.2). The thing is, 
> they are mostly all elementary schools, so they *do* need to have things 
(Continue reading)

Rob Owens | 1 Oct 19:13 2008

Re: A crisis of LTSP faith.


Jordan Erickson wrote:
> Patrick Rady wrote:
> 
> *snip*
>> With Ubuntu, there is a certain pressure to upgrade- if you want your 
>> users to have the latest versions of, say, OpenOffice. You need to 
>> upgrade (in my case because of weird bugs with print drivers we need 
>> to use) because they are so conservative with backports, but then you 
>> must endure all of the regressions. Also, Feisty and Gutsy-packaged 
>> OpenOffice suffered from nasty crashers that were specific to the 
>> Ubuntu packages.  So you must go through hoops to install the Sun 
>> versions, which don't integrate quite as nicely.
> BAM. You hit the nail on the head, I think. Ubuntu's backporting policy, 
> *especially* in regards to LTS versions, is absolutely horrible. What is 
> the benefit of NOT backporting bug fixes? It's hard to stay motivated to 
> make things work when new LTS versions such as Hardy come out, you find 
> bugs that are really critical to your environment, and the first thing 
> you hear is "It'll be fixed in Intrepid." Huh?? Same thing happened with 
> the last LTS version. I was forced to upgrade to a non-LTS version when 
> it came out, to fix bugs in things like Evince and OpenOffice. It's the 
> same cycle all over again.

I too have felt abandoned when using Ubuntu's LTS versions.

What you're looking for is very similar to what you get when you run
Debian Testing.  I think you should give it a try and see what you think.

-Rob
********************************************************
(Continue reading)

Rob Owens | 1 Oct 21:23 2008

webcams on LTSP 4.2 or 5

Just wondering what the current status of webcam usage is on either LTSP
4.2 or LTSP 5.  My company is looking to use a few Proscope HR cameras
(usb connected, similar in function to a webcam).  This model uses the
UVC driver.

Any success stories out there?

-Rob
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Jordan Erickson | 1 Oct 22:47 2008
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[Fwd: Re: A crisis of LTSP faith.]

For whatever reason, Patrick can't send to the list due to "suspicious 
headers". I'll forward his reply now.

- Jordan/Lns
From: Patrick Rady <prady@...>
Subject: Re: [Ltsp-discuss] A crisis of LTSP faith.
Date: 2008-10-01 19:52:20 GMT

I'm getting as irritated by this mailing list as I am by Hardy Heron.  My replies keep getting blocked due to "suspicious headers" and I haven't included my sigs in those.

I give up.

-
Patrick Rady
Administrator, npServ
NEW (Nonprofit Enterprise at Work)
office 734-998-0160 ext. 212 / fax 734-998-0163

prady-mpW0j2nBae4@public.gmane.org / http://www.new.org/
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From: Jordan Erickson [mailto:jerickson-K3MOBB21ZxXa4m0rPQLZSMwUgwZY+qef@public.gmane.org]
To: prady-mpW0j2nBae4@public.gmane.org
Sent: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:48:14 -0400
Subject: Re: [Ltsp-discuss] A crisis of LTSP faith.

Patrick,

Would you mind forwarding your reply to the list? It'd be nice for
others to hear this as well.

Cheers,
Jordan


Patrick Rady wrote:
> Increasingly, I think the LTS-distinction is stupid, because if Hardy
> is of any evidence, the LTS releases are not more stable. Not at
> all. Years of security patches aren't of much value if OpenOffice
> keeps crashing.
>
> -
> Patrick Rady
> Administrator, npServ
> NEW (Nonprofit Enterprise at Work)
> office 734-998-0160 ext. 212 / fax 734-998-0163
(Continue reading)

Jordan Erickson | 1 Oct 22:59 2008
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Helping Ubuntu/LTSP get bugfixes pushed to LTS

All,

mrooney in #ubuntu-bugs pointed this blog post by Laserjock to me - I 
think this is really what we all need to focus on if we want a better 
Hardy. We *all* need to put effort into the processes in order for this 
to work as we want it to...after all, we are all part of "the community" 
(and a smaller subset LTSP community, which needs a lot more attention).

Discussion welcome - I am, for one, motivated and equipped better now 
that I understand how the process works. Hopefully this will allow you 
all to be as well.

http://laserjock.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/sru-needs-you/

Cheers,
Jordan/Lns

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_____________________________________________________________________
Ltsp-discuss mailing list.   To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
      https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
For additional LTSP help,   try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

Jim McQuillan | 1 Oct 23:37 2008

Re: [Fwd: Re: A crisis of LTSP faith.]

Somebody should tell Patrick Rady to not turn off HTML formatting in his 
email client.  That's not a good thing to send to mailing lists.

Jim McQuillan
jam@...

Jordan Erickson wrote:
> For whatever reason, Patrick can't send to the list due to "suspicious 
> headers". I'll forward his reply now.
> 
> - Jordan/Lns
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject:
> Re: [Ltsp-discuss] A crisis of LTSP faith.
> From:
> "Patrick Rady" <prady@...>
> Date:
> Wed, 01 Oct 2008 15:52:20 -0400
> To:
> "Jordan Erickson" <jerickson@...>
> 
> To:
> "Jordan Erickson" <jerickson@...>
> 
> 
> I'm getting as irritated by this mailing list as I am by Hardy Heron.  
> My replies keep getting blocked due to "suspicious headers" and I 
> haven't included my sigs in those.
(Continue reading)

Patrick Rady | 2 Oct 01:48 2008

A crisis of Ubuntu faith.

While I may be confused about HTML versus Plain Text, in my messages...  *ahem* sorry.

After hearing what Jordan and Rob had to say, I conclude that my problem is definitely not with LTSP, but with Ubuntu.

And it's looking like Debian might be the way to go. My co-worker has tested it a bit and seemed to think that it
was certainly faster than Ubuntu.  

I guess I'm feeling a little burned by Hardy Heron. Perhaps I am confused by the concept of the LTS version-
but it seems like the LTS concept is kind of pointless for desktop versions. I understand a long-term
support version of a server OS. But having a desktop stuck with same apps, infrequent backports and
nothing but security patches... is kinda... not helpful for my particular situation. Especially when
the LTS version in question, is not especially rock solid. The LTS badge seems to imply a stability that
isn't exactly there. Debian's philosophy seems more closely aligned with my situation. I want updated
apps, not the necessity to update the whole shebang every 6 months.

There's a lot to like about Ubuntu- and I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger- but when I heard the focus of
Jaunty would be "faster boot times", I had to scratch my head.  My clients are certainly not hounding me with
complaints about boot speed.

--Patrick

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_____________________________________________________________________
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(Continue reading)

Jordan Erickson | 2 Oct 02:02 2008
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Re: A crisis of Ubuntu faith.

I apologize if I'm continuing an OT thread, but I would like to agree 
with Patrick. LTSP setups, especially larger ones (more than 5-10 
clients), should be VERY stable, including all applications that users 
will be using. They are a unique exception in the desktop scenario. I 
was pulled in by Ubuntu LTSP because it was touted as *the best* LTSP 
distro, for its ease of setup and integration with the OS. I guess maybe 
it's the OS part we need to work on now (appliation SRUs anyone?).

I have always loved Debian's update policy, although last time I used it 
was before Ubuntu was very popular, and their common app versions were 
waaaaay behind (and oh lord, were the GUI themes ugly). Maybe Ubuntu has 
helped in this area for Debian/LTSP? If so, maybe Debian *is* the best 
bet (from the two anyway).... it's almost anally stable, with a very 
thought-through release cycle. Again, I'd love to hear if anyone has had 
Firefox/OOo crashing issues on Debian LTSP.

- Jordan

Patrick Rady wrote:
> While I may be confused about HTML versus Plain Text, in my messages...  *ahem* sorry.
>
> After hearing what Jordan and Rob had to say, I conclude that my problem is definitely not with LTSP, but
with Ubuntu.
>
> And it's looking like Debian might be the way to go. My co-worker has tested it a bit and seemed to think that
it was certainly faster than Ubuntu.  
>
> I guess I'm feeling a little burned by Hardy Heron. Perhaps I am confused by the concept of the LTS version-
but it seems like the LTS concept is kind of pointless for desktop versions. I understand a long-term
support version of a server OS. But having a desktop stuck with same apps, infrequent backports and
(Continue reading)

Oliver Grawert | 2 Oct 02:07 2008

Re: A crisis of Ubuntu faith.

hi,
On Mi, 2008-10-01 at 19:48 -0400, Patrick Rady wrote:
> I guess I'm feeling a little burned by Hardy Heron. Perhaps I am confused by the concept of the LTS version-
but it seems like the LTS concept is kind of pointless for desktop versions. I understand a long-term
support version of a server OS. But having a desktop stuck with same apps, infrequent backports and
nothing but security patches... is kinda... not helpful for my particular situation. Especially when
the LTS version in question, is not especially rock solid. The LTS badge seems to imply a stability that
isn't exactly there. Debian's philosophy seems more closely aligned with my situation. I want updated
apps, not the necessity to update the whole shebang every 6 months.

are you aware that debian once it gets stable follows a harder policy
than ubuntu LTS ? there are no bugfix updates for annoyances like in the
ubuntu LTS release, only security updates until the next stable release
in (possibly) some years. with a stable debian release (which testing
will turn into within the next month(s)) you are more stuck.

(i dont want to get you away from debian or something, but your
assumptions seem fairly wrong, in fact the massively outdated and stuck
nature of stable debian releases (which is great for servers but sucks
on desktops) is the main reason ubuntu exists at all)

ciao
	oli
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(Continue reading)


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