Thomas Guyot-Sionnest | 9 Oct 2009 01:26
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Question/suggestions regarding ARMedslack


Hi,

I just joined this mailing list as I was looking at building cheap
enterprise-grade VPN devices out of SheevaPlugs (implementing HA,
Atateful failovers, Firewall, QoS on a single vlan-tagged interface).
Being a long-time Slackware user ARMedslack was obviously the 1st distro
I looked at for this project (there's also Ångström that looks nice...
for it).

First of all looking at the -current branch it appears the latest kernel
used is 2.6.31.1. Is there any plan at using the 2.6.32 kernel for the
next release, even though it's still in -rc stage ATM? Looking at it it
seems it has a few patches for Kirkwood, most importantly (at least for
me) hardware crypto support which is probably a good ides to have for a
VPN (also useful when using crypto disks which seems even more
popular..). I sure can compile it but but I though maybe it could be
considered a showstopper for the 13.0 release since this port hasn't
released it yet...

Secondly, trough the documentation it appears the packages get compiled
in a SheevaPlug or in Qemu (I don't have any plug in my hands yet). I
would feel much more comfortable using a cross-compile environment - I
used to run one from a PowerPC (YDL) for my OpenWRT router and it was
pretty nice. If there's no documentation specific to ARMEdslack I will
build one as I'd like to create images from my dev platform (x86) and
use them straight in Qemu/Sheeva (I'll probably hack the installer too...).

Also it looks like the kernel support UBIFS but there's no instructions
for using it. IMHO it should not only be documented but also the
(Continue reading)

Stuart Winter | 9 Oct 2009 10:22
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Re: Question/suggestions regarding ARMedslack


Hi Thomas

> enterprise-grade VPN devices out of SheevaPlugs (implementing HA,
> Atateful failovers, Firewall, QoS on a single vlan-tagged interface).

Cool.  Have you looked at the OpenRD which has 2Gbit interfaces?
They're more expensive than the SheevaPlug and the kernel support isn't
finished yet, but I plan to make ARMedslack installable on that too.

> used is 2.6.31.1. Is there any plan at using the 2.6.32 kernel for the
> next release,

There won't be a Slackware ARM 13.0 release because the EABI port is too
new and untested -- I only completed it last month; whilst it's been
totally stable for me during development, I expect there to be problems
I don't yet know about.
Slackware 13.1 may be the next release if I think it's stable enough by
that time.  For the time being, Slackware ARM -current will keep in sync
with Intel -current.

Slackware ARM usually has the latest stable kernel though, which usually
isn't in sync with Slackware x86 because as you say, the newer Kernels
usually contain ARM fixes.

> would feel much more comfortable using a cross-compile environment - I
> used to run one from a PowerPC (YDL) for my OpenWRT router and it was
> pretty nice. If there's no documentation specific to ARMEdslack I will
> build one as I'd like to create images from my dev platform (x86) and
> use them straight in Qemu/Sheeva (I'll probably hack the installer too...).
(Continue reading)

Thomas Guyot-Sionnest | 9 Oct 2009 13:23
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Re: Question/suggestions regarding ARMedslack


On 09/10/09 04:22 AM, Stuart Winter wrote:
> Hi Thomas
> 
>> enterprise-grade VPN devices out of SheevaPlugs (implementing HA,
>> Atateful failovers, Firewall, QoS on a single vlan-tagged interface).
> 
> Cool.  Have you looked at the OpenRD which has 2Gbit interfaces?
> They're more expensive than the SheevaPlug and the kernel support isn't
> finished yet, but I plan to make ARMedslack installable on that too.

Yeah, the client version + case is $300; that's pretty expensive
compared to the $99 Sheevaplug which has a target retail price of
$40-$60! Besides, I'd use a second Gbit port and a RS232 one but I don't
need all those USB, [e]SATA, VGA & other ports! If I want a serial port
for HA I can use a cheap usb dongle too...

>> would feel much more comfortable using a cross-compile environment - I
>> used to run one from a PowerPC (YDL) for my OpenWRT router and it was
>> pretty nice. If there's no documentation specific to ARMEdslack I will
>> build one as I'd like to create images from my dev platform (x86) and
>> use them straight in Qemu/Sheeva (I'll probably hack the installer too...).
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean here.  Why would you need to do anything to the
> installer?  The installer is not related to any compilation environment.

The idea is to build usable images straight from the build computer
(x86). If there's anything build into the installer to automate the
proces I'll use that (I'm not talking about tagfiles but rather all the
rest).
(Continue reading)

Stuart Winter | 9 Oct 2009 13:56
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Re: Question/suggestions regarding ARMedslack

> Yeah, the client version + case is $300; that's pretty expensive
> compared to the $99 Sheevaplug which has a target retail price of
> $40-$60! Besides, I'd use a second Gbit port and a RS232 one but I don't
> need all those USB, [e]SATA, VGA & other ports! If I want a serial port
> for HA I can use a cheap usb dongle too...

Agreed.  I didn't know the SP retail price was so low!!
If they drop in price more, I might buy another one.  I have 2 already,
and open OpenRD.

> > installer?  The installer is not related to any compilation environment.
>
> The idea is to build usable images straight from the build computer
> (x86). If there's anything build into the installer to automate the
> proces I'll use that (I'm not talking about tagfiles but rather all the
> rest).

Aah right I understand, I think.
You want to prepare stock images that can be written to the SheevaPlug
NAND flash so you can roll out your product.
The Slackware installer doesn't support what you want to do -- we did
start a project but none of the team have time to do it and do it well.

What you could do is:
ftp://ftp.armedslack.org/armedslack/armedslack-devtools/slackkit/sansinstaller

Look at that script, and produce your own tag files for each package
series ("a", "ap" and so on); and call installpkg with -tagfile.

I'd guess that for the majority of packages you'd be installing
(Continue reading)

brian kelley | 9 Oct 2009 19:41
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Re: Question/suggestions regarding ARMedslack

i think the openmoko freerunner is what u need to develop on:)


--- On Fri, 10/9/09, Stuart Winter <m-lists <at> biscuit.org.uk> wrote:

From: Stuart Winter <m-lists <at> biscuit.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [ARMedslack] Question/suggestions regarding ARMedslack
To: "Slackware ARM port" <armedslack <at> lists.armedslack.org>
Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 3:22 AM


Hi Thomas

> enterprise-grade VPN devices out of SheevaPlugs (implementing HA,
> Atateful failovers, Firewall, QoS on a single vlan-tagged interface).

Cool.  Have you looked at the OpenRD which has 2Gbit interfaces?
They're more expensive than the SheevaPlug and the kernel support isn't
finished yet, but I plan to make ARMedslack installable on that too.

> used is 2.6.31.1. Is there any plan at using the 2.6.32 kernel for the
> next release,

There won't be a Slackware ARM 13.0 release because the EABI port is too
new and untested -- I only completed it last month; whilst it's been
totally stable for me during development, I expect there to be problems
I don't yet know about.
Slackware 13.1 may be the next release if I think it's stable enough by
that time.  For the time being, Slackware ARM -current will keep in sync
with Intel -current.

Slackware ARM usually has the latest stable kernel though, which usually
isn't in sync with Slackware x86 because as you say, the newer Kernels
usually contain ARM fixes.

> would feel much more comfortable using a cross-compile environment - I
> used to run one from a PowerPC (YDL) for my OpenWRT router and it was
> pretty nice. If there's no documentation specific to ARMEdslack I will
> build one as I'd like to create images from my dev platform (x86) and
> use them straight in Qemu/Sheeva (I'll probably hack the installer too...).

I'm not sure what you mean here.  Why would you need to do anything to the
installer?  The installer is not related to any compilation environment.

ARMedslack's packages are compiled on a SheevaPlug (or what ever machine
is free which is the correct release and has the most up to date
installation), and using distcc is sent to a cluster of x86 machines
running a cross compiler that has the identical versions of glibc,
binutils and gcc as the Slackware ARM host.  So I get the benefits of
having fast compilation times and having the packages work correctly.

If you're building an entire OS, cross compiling really isn't much fun
because many packages' build systems aren't made to cross compile so you'd
have to modify them.  The best part is when the Makefile tries to execute
a binary just compiled in order to process some data -- an example of
which is ncurses.  This is why the first ARMedslack was built inside of
"Scratchbox" - www.scratchbox.org

I don't know of any distribution apart from Emdebian, which does not build
their packages natively.

> Also it looks like the kernel support UBIFS but there's no instructions
> for using it. IMHO it should not only be documented but also the
> recommended filesystem as it is much better in many technical aspects.

You're talking about installation of the OS onto the NAND flash on the
SheevaPlug?  I don't know how to support that for a couple of reasons:
1. I didn't spend enough time looking
2. The NAND on the SheevaPlug is 512MB in size which isn't enough to
    put a full installation of Slackware (~4GB) on to.  A full
    installation is the recommended way to install Slackware.
    Therefore I'd have to maintain a list of packages of a slimmed
    down installation.

If somebody wanted to maintain a list of packages that could fit inside
512MB and still leave enough space for the running system, then the "tag
files" could be added to the installer image and presented as an
installation option.
I'd *like* to be able to do it because I believe it'd be useful
but I don't have time to maintain it.

> PS: Could the mailing list be linked to from the main ARMedslack page?
> I'm not sure if I missed something but I had to do a Google search to
> find it.

It is on the front page of www.armedslack.org.

--
Stuart Winter
Slackware ARM: www.armedslack.org
_______________________________________________
ARMedslack mailing list
ARMedslack <at> lists.armedslack.org
http://lists.armedslack.org/mailman/listinfo/armedslack

_______________________________________________
ARMedslack mailing list
ARMedslack <at> lists.armedslack.org
http://lists.armedslack.org/mailman/listinfo/armedslack
Stuart Winter | 1 Oct 2009 10:24
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Freerunner


Hi

> i might have already asked this,,,     is there a chance that SlackARM 
> will run on the openmoko freerunner?

The Slackware ARM packages user land packages, in the main, will be fine
on the system - although perhaps may require some additional tweaking.

I think the majority of work would be the installation and resolving all
of the requirements and parameters required to boot the system.

I have had a brief look through:
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner

If somebody is interested in making an out of box experience, including
installation documentation, then let me know.
brian kelley | 1 Oct 2009 16:57
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Re: Freerunner

thanks Stuart          !!!!

--- On Thu, 10/1/09, Stuart Winter <m-lists <at> biscuit.org.uk> wrote:

From: Stuart Winter <m-lists <at> biscuit.org.uk>
Subject: [ARMedslack] Freerunner
To: "Slackware ARM port" <armedslack <at> lists.armedslack.org>
Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 3:24 AM


Hi

> i might have already asked this,,,     is there a chance that SlackARM 
> will run on the openmoko freerunner?

The Slackware ARM packages user land packages, in the main, will be fine
on the system - although perhaps may require some additional tweaking.

I think the majority of work would be the installation and resolving all
of the requirements and parameters required to boot the system.

I have had a brief look through:
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner

If somebody is interested in making an out of box experience, including
installation documentation, then let me know.

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
ARMedslack mailing list
ARMedslack <at> lists.armedslack.org
http://lists.armedslack.org/mailman/listinfo/armedslack

Stuart Winter | 1 Oct 2009 17:36
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Re: Freerunner


On Thu, 1 Oct 2009, brian kelley wrote:

> thanks Stuart          !!!!

Are you volunteering? :-)
brian kelley | 1 Oct 2009 18:16
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Re: Freerunner

i would love to   but my skills are lacking


--- On Thu, 10/1/09, Stuart Winter <m-lists <at> biscuit.org.uk> wrote:

From: Stuart Winter <m-lists <at> biscuit.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [ARMedslack] Freerunner
To: "Slackware ARM port" <armedslack <at> lists.armedslack.org>
Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 10:36 AM




On Thu, 1 Oct 2009, brian kelley wrote:

> thanks Stuart          !!!!

Are you volunteering? :-)

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
ARMedslack mailing list
ARMedslack <at> lists.armedslack.org
http://lists.armedslack.org/mailman/listinfo/armedslack

brian kelley | 1 Oct 2009 18:18
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Re: Freerunner

i have trouble  with basic linux skills because i know nothing


--- On Thu, 10/1/09, Stuart Winter <m-lists <at> biscuit.org.uk> wrote:

From: Stuart Winter <m-lists <at> biscuit.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [ARMedslack] Freerunner
To: "Slackware ARM port" <armedslack <at> lists.armedslack.org>
Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 10:36 AM




On Thu, 1 Oct 2009, brian kelley wrote:

> thanks Stuart          !!!!

Are you volunteering? :-)

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
ARMedslack mailing list
ARMedslack <at> lists.armedslack.org
http://lists.armedslack.org/mailman/listinfo/armedslack


Gmane