Ivan Gyurdiev | 1 Feb 01:16 2006
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SATA question

I'm confused... is my sata drive (ata3 below) running at the proper speed?
This is a western digital SATA 2 drive. The messages below mention both  
3.0Gbps and UDMA/133, which I don't understand.

hdparm -I says udma6 is being used.
Testing my old drive, with this new SATA II one shows very similar 
performance,  near 60MB/s (via hdparm -Tt). Is this unusual? I would 
expect some kind of improvement...

This is an nforce4 chipset, A8N-SLI motherboard.
===========================

ata3: SATA max UDMA/133 cmd 0x9E0 ctl 0xBE2 bmdma 0xC400 irq 225
ata4: SATA max UDMA/133 cmd 0x960 ctl 0xB62 bmdma 0xC408 irq 225
ata3: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123)
ata3: dev 0 cfg 49:2f00 82:746b 83:7f01 84:4023 85:7469 86:3e01 87:4023 
88:407f
ata3: dev 0 ATA-7, max UDMA/133, 390721968 sectors: LBA48
nv_sata: Primary device added
nv_sata: Primary device removed
nv_sata: Secondary device added
nv_sata: Secondary device removed
ata3: dev 0 configured for UDMA/133
scsi2 : sata_nv
ata4: SATA link down (SStatus 0)
scsi3 : sata_nv
  Vendor: ATA       Model: WDC WD2000JS-55M  Rev: 02.0
  Type:   Direct-Access                      ANSI SCSI revision: 05
SCSI device sda: 390721968 512-byte hdwr sectors (200050 MB)
sda: Write Protect is off
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Robert Nichols | 1 Feb 01:23 2006
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Re: Please strip out the patch that brings up applications behind gnome-terminal

Ian Burrell wrote:
> On 1/31/06, Miles Lane <miles.lane <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>I cannot understand why on earth xorg or Gnome
>>has been changed to render new application behind
>>gnome-terminal.  Every time I run a program (surprise!)
>>I want to use it.  I don't want to keep playing around
>>with gnome-terminal.  So, can we please strip this
>>change out of Fedora Core?
>>
> 
> 
> I much prefer the new behavior.  I used to always have trouble typing
> going into the wrong window when a new application started while I was
> typing into another.  No more sending the root password over IM. 
> Personally, I think apps should show above but never ever take focus.
> I am pretty sure apps can say that their modal dialogs should show
> above and get focus so they don't end up hidden.

The problem I have with that is that the popup dialogs are the
worst offenders.  I'll be typing into a word processor, and a
long running background process pops up a dialog saying, "An
unexpected error has occurred.  Delete the database?" just as
I'm about to type <TAB> <ENTER>.  Bye-bye database!

-- 
Bob Nichols         Yes, "NOSPAM" is really part of my email address.

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Jeff Spaleta | 1 Feb 01:36 2006
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Re: Please strip out the patch that brings up applications behind gnome-terminal

On 1/31/06, Robert Nichols <rnicholsNOSPAM <at> comcast.net> wrote:
> The problem I have with that is that the popup dialogs are the
> worst offenders.  I'll be typing into a word processor, and a
> long running background process pops up a dialog saying, "An
> unexpected error has occurred.  Delete the database?" just as
> I'm about to type <TAB> <ENTER>.  Bye-bye database!

but at the same time... having the pop up dialogs "pop-under" terminal
windows in a way that you can't see them at all is also a problem.

-jef"that's not rain.. that's the sky falling"spaleta

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Jim Cornette | 1 Feb 01:42 2006
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Re: bad gnome-applets dependencies

Jason Dravet wrote:
> A patch to move gnome applets to use gstreamer 0.10 has been accepted in 
> gnome upstream.  See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326285 
> for the details.  As such the gnome applets dependencies should be 
> updated.  I am using gnome-applets-2.13.3-2.
> 
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=179485
> 
> Thanks,
> Jason
> 
> 

This integration, will it help with this gweather bug?

http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=327406

Jim

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Rudi Chiarito | 1 Feb 02:11 2006

Re: Please strip out the patch that brings up applications behind gnome-terminal

On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 06:23:07PM -0600, Robert Nichols wrote:
> The problem I have with that is that the popup dialogs are the
> worst offenders.  I'll be typing into a word processor, and a
> long running background process pops up a dialog saying, "An
> unexpected error has occurred.  Delete the database?" just as
> I'm about to type <TAB> <ENTER>.  Bye-bye database!

I think Firefox disables the buttons in dialogs that are not focused,
so you don't end up activating buttons by mistake when you were simply
trying to focus the dialog (especially if the dialog is for the most
part covered). You click once to focus and once again to select the
button.

The extension installation dialog keeps its crucial button ('Install')
disabled until a timeout of a few seconds occurs. This can help a lot
with scenarios like yours. And the countdown doesn't even start if the
dialog is not focused.

Maybe all dialogs whose actions can't be undone should behave like
that. Application windows shouldn't need to have their controls disabled
while unfocused.

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Rudi

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Miles Lane | 1 Feb 02:23 2006
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Re: Please strip out the patch that brings up applications behind gnome-terminal

On 1/31/06, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/31/06, Robert Nichols <rnicholsNOSPAM <at> comcast.net> wrote:
> > The problem I have with that is that the popup dialogs are the
> > worst offenders.  I'll be typing into a word processor, and a
> > long running background process pops up a dialog saying, "An
> > unexpected error has occurred.  Delete the database?" just as
> > I'm about to type <TAB> <ENTER>.  Bye-bye database!
>
> but at the same time... having the pop up dialogs "pop-under" terminal
> windows in a way that you can't see them at all is also a problem.

Here's an example, the nm-applet has a keyring manager dialog that
opens when it starts up.  This dialog should be rendered above other
windows, since it requires user input for important system
functionality to be set up (wireless networking).  Since this change,
I see a flash when nm-applet starts, then I have to dig around to get
to the dialog.

The most aggrevating example, though, is when I start ANY application
from gnome-terminal (emacs, amarok, firefox, whatever).  I now have to
click on the application window to give it focus.  I hate this!  I,
personally, think it is brain-dead to not give focus to applications
when they start (with the exception of dialogs which should be "system
modal" in Windows parlance).

      Miles

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Miles Lane | 1 Feb 02:29 2006
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Re: Please strip out the patch that brings up applications behind gnome-terminal

On 1/31/06, Ian Burrell <ianburrell <at> gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
> I much prefer the new behavior.  I used to always have trouble typing
> going into the wrong window when a new application started while I was
> typing into another.  No more sending the root password over IM.
> Personally, I think apps should show above but never ever take focus.
> I am pretty sure apps can say that their modal dialogs should show
> above and get focus so they don't end up hidden.
>
> This is the upstream behavior of metacity 2.10.  I don't think there
> is a gconf key to customzie the behavior.  You could use a different
> window manager which can be customized.  I think kwin, the KDE window
> manager, allows focus stealing prevention to be customized.

This is exactly the sort of thing that drives me nuts with Gnome.
The Ximian HIG/usability folks come up with some whacko default
and then make it impossible for users to work around it.
Who is it who decided to change this Metacity behavior?
I cannot believe that this is going to be a usability benefit for most
users.  Argh!  This may drive me back to KDE again.

         Miles

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John Summerfied | 1 Feb 02:32 2006

Re: Please strip out the patch that brings up applications behind gnome-terminal

Jeff Spaleta wrote:

> 
> 
> but at the same time... having the pop up dialogs "pop-under" terminal
> windows in a way that you can't see them at all is also a problem.

Indeed. One of the cuter problems I had on OS/2 a few times was two 
programs crashing and bringing up two system-modal dialogues.

The bad thing about that was the one with focus was not the one on tim, 
and as they were system-modal the user couldn't change focus (and 
couldn't drag one out of the way either).

Ultimately I hit on the idea of pressing the space-bar to signal "Ok."

OS X has a good way of handling it: if an application pops up a 
dialogue, its icon on the task-bar (equivalent) starts dancing, waving 
its hands and generally showing excitement. (Well, I do exagerate a 
little, but it's hard to miss but doesn't actually get in the way).

KDE apps have been starting behind for some time, and after a while I 
decided it was deliberate and good. As I started trying to respond to 
this, I had Mozilla get in the front twice, once when it started and 
once when the site tried to set a cookie. It's annoying.

--

-- 

Cheers
John
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John Summerfied | 1 Feb 02:40 2006

Re: Please strip out the patch that brings up applications behind gnome-terminal

Miles Lane wrote:

>>This is the upstream behavior of metacity 2.10.  I don't think there
>>is a gconf key to customzie the behavior.  You could use a different
>>window manager which can be customized.  I think kwin, the KDE window
>>manager, allows focus stealing prevention to be customized.
> 
> 
> This is exactly the sort of thing that drives me nuts with Gnome.
> The Ximian HIG/usability folks come up with some whacko default
> and then make it impossible for users to work around it.
> Who is it who decided to change this Metacity behavior?
> I cannot believe that this is going to be a usability benefit for most
> users.  Argh!  This may drive me back to KDE again.

I don't do things serially: a little while ago I clicked a link in some 
email, the went on to other mail (probably in a different client, I use 
Mozilla Mail and Thunderbird about equally).

I really don't want Mozilla taking me away from reading my email, I'll 
get to the website in my own time.

One of the most annoying assumptions programmers for Windows seem to 
assume is people always do things serially. "Don't do anything else 
while you burn a CD." "You can't do anything else while you read the 
contents of your Olympus Digital Voice Recorder." Bah.

I currently have stuff open on seven desktops in KDE and often have 
more. My window list currently runs to two columns and often to more.

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Rudi Chiarito | 1 Feb 03:31 2006

Re: Please strip out the patch that brings up applications behind gnome-terminal

On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 05:23:20PM -0800, Miles Lane wrote:
> The most aggrevating example, though, is when I start ANY application
> from gnome-terminal (emacs, amarok, firefox, whatever).  I now have to
> click on the application window to give it focus.  I hate this!  I,
> personally, think it is brain-dead to not give focus to applications
> when they start (with the exception of dialogs which should be "system
> modal" in Windows parlance).

What if you start something in the background in your shell? GNOME has
no way to know whether you just typed "emacs" or "emacs &". In the
latter case you don't necessarily want the focus transferred to Emacs.

Anyway, do you do anything with gnome-terminal or any other program
after you start the application, but before its window actually opens?
Metacity's focus-stealing prevention is supposed to kick in only if you
interact with anything else after you started the application - the new
window then will not grab the focus. It's not supposed to be
unconditional, unless there's a bug that ought to be reported. What
happens if you enter "emacs" and keep your hands away from the mouse and
the keyboard?

-- 
Rudi

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Gmane