Per Øyvind Karlsen | 11 Aug 22:38 2015

Re: [rosa-devel] Giving up on om-cooker

2015-08-11 15:26 GMT+02:00 symbianflo <symbianflo <at> mandrivausers.ro>:
Hi
Just to respect OMA's choices we don't use to write here about cooker or OMA,  
I'm not saying that you can not do it , but is just useless... nobody will answer..
you'll just loose your time... sad but true.
Well,I guess that's a bit part of the problem, it being the pink elephant in the room ...
The concern I have and why I bring the matter up as part of explaining the motivation for why wanting to be involved with this project in stead..
After spending half my life dedicated to the project, I don't want to see it die or being mismanaged in such a way, which I believe ultimately will hurt rosa linux severely and I like to still continue believing the mutual benefit and importance between the two projects (which back in 2013 were just about to be merged back together even)...
None the less, I think rambling much further on about this trying to explain myself might just get a bit overly redundant and repetetively boring to keep read about.. ;)


This being said you are welcome to help , :-D
I really don't think that somebody has to tell you what has to be done...
As for suggestions, requests, ideas, a.s.o , personally ,
I have a pretty good contributor experience with rosa decisional...
so I don't think that you'll be threated differently , actually
they are pretty fast in answering .
I guess it's all about respect...
Yupp, having working with many ROSA devels as professional colleagues, I wouldn't expect  anything else from my personal experience with. :)

Yet, what I want to figure out and determine is the interest of this project in discussing ways to work together, ideas, opinions and thoughts about whether having common goals and how to achieve those. :)

This especially due to, as you already know, I'm usually working on the core parts of distro and much of the architectural design of, making it rather.. uhm.. "rude" to try continue this within ROSA, bringing with me efforts from my work that might not be of interest to the project, maybe even the exact opposite, and I don't want to step on anymore toes than I've already done other places.. ;)

So before starting getting involved, I need to start that the extent of my work and ambitions are both welcomed and accepted. :)

So uhm, related to this, how is the project organized currently these days? Are there any developer meetings where important matters gets discussed, right occations to raise topics, ideas etcetc.?

Say, if I wanted to make any proposals etc., is rosa-devel the most appropriate place to start?

I have to excuse myself for the lack of insight on these matters related to the project, but one has to start somewhere at least to learn of. :)


--
Regards.
Per Øyvind
Per Øyvind Karlsen | 8 Aug 13:19 2015

Giving up on om-cooker

Hi!

I've decided (as prolly' any of you already did and figured out for yourself) that om-cooker opposed to original cooker is too much of a mess possible saving from itself in it's current situation, with both management of, quality ++ being just far below any acceptable level.

It's worse than I've ever witnessed in  any project before when trying to raise the topic myself again (despite majority sharing same feelings, with even bero & raphaël themself promised to do it months ago to spare me for going through all the crap and being in a better position to do so not having been through that crap either..), with those some of you who might've witnessed recent cooker activity on list and on irc already aware of me being banned from cooker on ABF, while completely censored on mailing lists, forums and blogs...

So as I've heard a lot more better about both quality and how project is being run for ROSA Linux, I'll rather try join in, in hope of being able to contribute on all the same levels and bring with me much of all the various efforts of technical and non-technical kind to this project, which I plan to base the original cooker on signed with the original cooker <at> linux-mandrake.com key,as I've continued the project myself all along in separate repo still using same branding and signing..

So I hope you welcome me and will allow me to at least voice my opinions, thoughts, ideas etc. without being censored and slandered by a totalitarian "democratic" organization that now again with a new council elected has regressed to misunderstand their primary (and near purely) role of supporting and promoting the project without interfering with it, which the previous council eventually learned in the end...

Properly managed and developed (which from what my impression of this project seems to be, especially compared to om-cooker), I still have some hope and faith left in this distribution I've spent about half of my life investing efforts as a key contributor to...

--
Regards,
Per Øyvind
Per Øyvind Karlsen | 24 Jul 23:24 2015

Re: Project state, future and the inevitable doom

I sent from the wrong mail alias, so let's hope this one gets through to cooker..

2015-07-24 23:11 GMT+02:00 Per Øyvind Karlsen <proyvind <at> gmail.com>:
I very much welcome this proposal..

I must admit that my life got a bit more hectic as I just was made aware of that I have to find a new place to live by the end of the month..

But I'll try to assemble a list of topics and a more concrete proposal for a structure for the project to be governed by, as it's been quite evident, especially sine yesterday's revelation of the OMA council's lack of respect of the project's autonomy, by both interfering with it by censoring the mailing list again, while also refusing to disclose th details behind it, which is obviously at conflicts with the statutes requiring transparency of information within organization..

I will also introduce you to Sam Spurlock, which has offered to help me/us in this task, which I hope will help for a greater chance of success by my attempts of pursuing everything on my own while also trying to focus on technical matters and the mess that is my life these days..

Symbian Flo, would you be able to use some meeting organizing service online to organize a meeting where everyone can rsvp and notify about their best time for such a meeting?

2015-07-23 19:32 GMT+02:00 Symbian Flo <symbianflo <at> mandrivausers.ro>:
AFIC everybody here is missing the big picture...( exempt pulfer),
the priority ain't no more finances, or bad choices,or whatever... 
Hey folks no ABF no distro, and I mean no oma or rosa...
I know , POK offered some hw, but let's wait for the new owner and what is up to.
<at> POK writing here is kinda lame ... if you could try to organize a meeting
on #moondrake, since some are banned from oma ml , some are not even 
in the ml and some , for some very strange reason don't reach oma ml anymore...
that's why my ping yesterday.
Or if you have some other option to meet just name it.
For ex. I'm available all days after 19:00 ( Rome or CET)
Thanks.




 

2015-07-21 3:53 GMT+02:00 Per Øyvind Karlsen <proyvind <at> gmail.com>:
I'm sending forwarding this mail to you in expectancy of stepping up and join the discussion as most of you has expressed same dissatisfaction with state of everything and support for these things.
So I hope that you guys finally will step up and make your voices heard..
Some of you I included in this forward as I know you might have some interest on one level or another, or has the credibility and trust to chip in and help out with this project which has become a disaster project-wise and quality-wise..

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Per Øyvind Karlsen <proyvind <at> gmail.com>
Date: 2015-07-20 20:49 GMT+02:00
Subject: Project state, future and the inevitable doom
To: Cooker OpenMandriva <om-cooker <at> ml.openmandriva.org>


Hi!

This is something I've been meaning to write for a long while, and most contributors has really wanted me to bring up..
Namely how this project since I was blocked from the project that got hijacked and illegimately decided to denounce me as the project leader,,
And the consensus of majority of contributors, while also ROSA has been very unsatisfied by the result (remember, we were about to merge the two again before psychopats as Matthew Dawkins manipulated everyone off-list in private and made this whole a chaos and the the perfect distribution that was in the works, never materialized, which OMV Lx became a huge disappointment compared to,,,

Also, which people like Kate are sincery dishonest about, is our funding and her intentions about leaving in like three months as Leonid Reiman is pulling out...
With the funds OMA has, this project will only be able to cover server expenses for veryvery short time now...

So something needs to be done,,,
I personally have a 64 core system which outperforms the whole cluster nodes, which I'll be sponsoring the project with, while trying to see if I can get free hosting or at least a good price on...

Also, as OpenMandriva Lx, and "om.cooker" has abandoned all legacy and trademark, and become irrelevant now, this project has no appeal to much people, stability and usage wise I'm not even recommending it to other...

So I propose that I assume the project leader role again (which technically, noone took away from, this was handed to me by JMC himself to take responsibility for, which OMA forced itself to take these away, yet I never gave them...
Also with OpenMandriva Lx has been a disaster what name, trademark and lacking any clear goals and purposes concerns, this needs to change.
Our history dates back almost 20 years, and is our greatest assetm while OMA without even consulting cooker, decided that this would be a new project, while "om-cooker" isn''t even considered as old cooker by those, something WE, the project, and which we made a clear stance on that WE controlled the project, NOT OMA which people might recall from the grand metting back in 2013...


So given current situation, and that I know I have support from most, even Raphaël who's has been so sorry for what happened and the mistakes that wore, I propose taking the project leader role (as we actually still lack one, I replaced Eugeni, noone replaced me) and everyone who have long experience with me know that I'm just, have integrity, longest experience with this project and know all of and how things works..

Also with the OMV naming  disaster, while not even recovered the signing key, giving the righteous rights to our cooker project, which I have in my possession,,

And on a related note, with Mandriva being liquidaed we have no legal presence in control of the project, the trademark loss back in 2006 is rather moot outside of France...

So in order to settle the the dispute, I'm wanting to name the project back to Mandrake GNU/Linux (linux foundation has trademark on linux), while signing with the true Mandrake key in order for us to claim being the project (most people has started perceiving Mageia as the true Mandrake heir, which is a total lie, they forked with desceptive tactics and lies, they even trying to steal our projects, claiming for themself to be the true upstream for all of our software projects, which is plainly wrong)...
Notice however, I do not want to spoil the efforts people has invested in OpenMandriva Lx, and as several among us has talked about separating it to a subproject, with the true cooker being upstream. Especially since OMV cannot be considered the same project, different signing key and even changing version name to 3 (over almost twenty year as a full blown community participated project, we obviously have released tons of past releases..)

So I hope that people will support this, otherwise the inevitable end is near,,

And pointed out above that I'll be sponsoring enterprise hardware, with the current servers soon disappering I hope you all see that this is the only way to save this project,,,

Would anyone protest against this?

If so, I'll be renaming moondrake to mandrake, while still keep signing with the authentic Mandrake key in my releases and repos,,,

Well, I hope at least that I spark a discussion and brought up the severity of the situation for people to fully understand in what distress this project actually and also pave the ground for people to discuss problems with project and what their unhappy with, Many people are loosing interest and stopping to contribute...


Sincere Regards,
Per Øyvind




Per Øyvind Karlsen | 23 Jul 01:19 2015
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Re: Cemsorship again

What would be great is if you could answer the reply to the cooker thread and try help out with getting the answers I ask for, and help underline the severity of this situation...

As I'm unable to post to the om-cooker list anymore, someone else needs to step up and try help cure the situation.

For your rpm5.org based distro, please let me know if there's anything I can help with.:)

2015-07-23 0:33 GMT+02:00 Jeremiah Summers <jmiahman <at> gmail.com>:
Huh, well I hope you guys can get things worked out. I still don't understand what Matt's motive would be especially since 2012 undermining relationships. Why do it, what power do you get from a dead bankrupt project? With Jeff in my reading bug submissions etc.. I have always notice Jeff has been semi hard to work more recently with the db issue, that even affected me. He tends to try to talk over people when his legit mistakes are pointed out instead of taking responsibility and will dig his heals in the ground solely out of pride. He's been that way since Red Hat when he worked on the original RPM. I'm sure it didn't better things when you announced you were going back to work on rpm.org, that had to hurt his pride. In any case I would like to see Mandrake again up and running. I kind think it's time has passed however unless you can recapture the interest and hold it by innovation and setting it apart from all the other hundreds of Desktop Linux distros (even Mageia now), it's just another one bites the dust. For something that came about because someone wanted a different Desktop Environment shipped with Red Hat it got pretty far. I'm working on a small project myself that uses rpm5 so I have been tracking other distros that use it as well, not too many left. Let me know if you need anything, or if you need me to talk to anyone and I will try and accommodate it. Sorry things have gone pair shaped.

Kind regards,

Jeremiah

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Per Øyvind Karlsen <proyvind <at> moondrake.net> wrote:
Jeff turned paranoid after Matt started feeding him FUD since 2012, which is when our relationship deteriated..

Iunderstand you scepticism towards my claims about Matt, but his behaviour and attempt at controlling the project started after I delegated him the responsibility of migrating the infrastructure (which he didn't play any active role in, except getting the ownership access while also choosing the name OpenMandriva)..
Matt has also been very upset about his proposals has been repeatedly put down not only by myself, but everyone else as well..

For the last years he has contributed nothing but just simple cosmetic changes to spec files, while even leaving the project for the last year...

If you look at his posts to cooker list, you'll witness a completely different behaviour from how he conducted himself on the unity list..

2015-07-22 23:56 GMT+02:00 Jeremiah Summers <jmiahman <at> gmail.com>:

That's strange doesn't sound like Matt, and hasn't Jeff been hard to work with and paranoid since his Red Hat days, him and Lennart are cut from he same cloth. What's your theory behind the mutiny, what's the motive?

On Jul 22, 2015 2:38 PM, "Per Øyvind Karlsen" <proyvind <at> moondrake.net> wrote:
Matt used psychopath tactics with a lot of offline communication, manipulating everyone to believe that Mandriva would pull out unless we adopted the OpenMandriva name, he also was the one who instigated the mutiny against me, and hijacked the infrastructure, removing everyone's admin access...
The list goes on and on, he's also responsible for having manipulated Jeff into getting paranoid and impossible to work with..

2015-07-22 23:28 GMT+02:00 Jeremiah Summers <jmiahman <at> gmail.com>:

I worked with Matt in the past and he was pretty level headed. What's going on?

On Jul 22, 2015 5:22 AM, "Per Øyvind Karlsen" <proyvind <at> moondrake.net> wrote:
In response to my post yesterday morning, the OMA council decided off-list that they would be censoring me on mailing list, and ultimately block me from IRC, forums, mailing lists and ABF, in attempt of blackmailing me to apologize to the legitimate allegations raised..

as I'm unable to post to om-cooker, I'm posting to this list to inform others and hope for people demonstrating their same resistance and intolerance to censorship...

--
Regards,
Per Øyvind







Per Øyvind Karlsen | 22 Jul 14:21 2015
Picon

Cemsorship again

In response to my post yesterday morning, the OMA council decided off-list that they would be censoring me on mailing list, and ultimately block me from IRC, forums, mailing lists and ABF, in attempt of blackmailing me to apologize to the legitimate allegations raised..

as I'm unable to post to om-cooker, I'm posting to this list to inform others and hope for people demonstrating their same resistance and intolerance to censorship...

--
Regards,
Per Øyvind



Per Øyvind Karlsen | 8 Nov 17:28 2013
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Re: [OM Cooker] Rosa Software Center ?

2013/11/2 <davide.garatti <at> linux-corner.it>

Hi,

I do not understand why there should be "Rosa Software Center" in OpenMandriva Lx.

we already have a tool to install and remove software and  Rosa Software Center still does not work....

it would not be better remove it from the installation DVD

Personally I think tainting naming with any vendor name is a really lousy idea, and is personally rebranding it to DrakX Control Center in my branch...

--
Regards,
Per Øyvind
Per Øyvind Karlsen | 30 Aug 15:40 2013
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ABF issues

I get 500 or 502 errors whenever trying to access stuff on ABF, what's up? :|

--
Regards,
Per Øyvind
Per Øyvind Karlsen | 26 Aug 19:17 2013
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Strange buildconflicts

When touching db* packages, I notice this odd buildconflicts:
BuildConflicts: libreoffice-core

Tomasz, care to elaborate about the necessity of this?
(It would btw. be nice if people did better at not only documenting exactly what they've done in commit messages, but also it's rationale whenever it's not too obvious (either in commit message or as a comment in spec file:).

--
Regards,
Per Øyvind
Marja van Waes | 12 Aug 08:55 2013
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updating moondrake beta

Hi all,

Some months ago I tried the moondrake beta and I liked it.

However, I didn't find out how to update it. What did I miss?

Kind regards,
Marja

Ben Bullard | 2 Aug 03:23 2013
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Re: [OM Cooker] Separate qa mailing list, why?!?!

On 08/01/2013 07:29 PM, Per Øyvind Karlsen wrote:
2013/8/2 Ben Bullard <benbullard79 <at> cox.net>
On 08/01/2013 09:21 AM, Per Øyvind Karlsen wrote:
worsen communication
As compared to the high level of communication on this list? :-D
Touché. ;)

I was more thinking along the lines of being more difficult to follow discussions though. :)

--
Regards,
Per Øyvind
I am the person who asked for the list and I asked for it to be private for members of the QA team to discuss things amongst ourselves without outside noise. It is other people who decided it should be a public list. I still believe it should be private. OM-General and OM-Cooker are more that enough for public discussion. In fact other lists such as OM-council and OM-infra are private. As should, IMOH, be OM-QA.

Of note it is obvious to me that the QA-team is slowed by noise from outside those of us who are actually trying to accomplish work. And some of us are trying hard to spark a movement of this distro in a forward direction.

And before anyone squawks, don't start with me about being open/transparent. Do any of you believe that Fedora and OpenSuSE don't have such channels of communication? If you do then you are not well informed. These are the distros I looked at as we were forming the QA-Team.

Any QA teams work is ultimately public and should be as is ours. Yet all organizations at times see a need do do some things privately with a small work group. This is not new. It is not unusual. The 6/24 .iso is a prime example of something that most definitely should have been tested internally before public release. This type of testing can't be done while communicating on a list open to the public. Do any of you actually believe that Fedora or OpenSuSE release an Alpha .iso without internal QA? I know for a fact that they don't. Hence they both have private channels of communication for various work groups as do many opensource groups, non-profit, for profit business organizations. Again not only is this not unusual it is standard practice.

-- Thanks, Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------- OM-QA mailing list OM-QA <at> ml.openmandriva.org http://ml.openmandriva.org/listinfo.cgi/om-qa-openmandriva.org
pcpa | 2 Aug 02:38 2013
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Re: [OM Cooker] Please make "E: incoherent-version-in-name" 1 error only, not 50

Per Øyvind Karlsen escreveu:
> 2013/7/23 <pcpa <at> mandriva.com.br>
>
>>   I have added a rpmlintrc with these contents:
>>
>> addFilter("E: incoherent-version-in-name")
>
>
>> to 20 or more of my packages already.
>>
> It sounds quite strange that you need to add this if you're adhering to
> library packaging policies..

  I am breaking it for "my packages" only. You should be aware that abf
itself does not keep old libraries if one bumps the major and does not
rebuild the older one, either in same package or adding a compat library.

> The reason why I gave this a score of 50 is because people often end up not
> noticing when abi major changes, still packaging libraries of different abi
> in same package.

  If one does not test an update, some different way of breaking stuff
will be found after enough tries :-)

>>   On an urelated note, I approve of that a missing
>> group tag is only 1 rpmlint error. I am removing
>> the group tag of several of my packages also, so
>> that the same spec can be used in different distros.
>>
> Can't you just make the group tags conditional or something?
> %if %{_rpmversion} < 5.0.0...

  I prefer to cleanup the spec, not add more to it :-)

Paulo


Gmane