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Masatomo Nakano | 5 May 2003 16:47
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Please add link to docs.xml

Hi,

Can anyone add a doc/ja/openafs.xml link to main/en/docs.xml?
It's Japanese translation document which is already available on the CVS.

Regards,
Masatomo Nakano

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Lars Weiler | 5 May 2003 17:57
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Order of translated docs

Hi,

do we have a system how to order the translations in
docs.xml?

Usually I see it in the order
English| Deutsch| Español| Français| Italiano| Japanese|
Korean| Nederlands| Russian
with leaving out the non-translated docs.

But on some docs there is another order.  I think it would
be fine for the users, when they can find their preferred
languages everytime at the same place (like for Germans
between English and Spanish).

Collecting the translations I would prefer an order like
this:

English| Deutsch| Español| Français| Italiano| Nederlands|
Svenska| Japanese| Chinese| Korean| Russian| Czech

So the languages are collected by their origin.

Furthermore we are using utf-8, so that we can display
Japanese, Chinese, Korean and Russian in their own
characters with an English name in braces behind.  Maybe
this would also attract users.

Regards, Lars
(Continue reading)

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Carl Anderson | 5 May 2003 18:07
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Re: Order of translated docs

If it's a matter of having the translation in the same place every time, we'd
have to have placeholders for those translations that don't exist--so that the
user always knows to click, say, three from the right or something.

I'd advocate for English first (since all docs are in English first), then for
the rest in English alphabetical order.  I think your proposed list is
basically like this.  Of course, we'd have to determine what translations we
currently "support" so we know which ones to have placeholders for.

-- 
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carl <at> laikadog.com
carl <at> gentoo.org

- Editor, Gentoo Linux Documentation Team
  http://www.gentoo.org/
- Blog and photo gallery at http://www.laikadog.com/

On Mon, 5 May 2003 17:57:07 +0200
Lars Weiler <pylon <at> gentoo.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> do we have a system how to order the translations in
> docs.xml?
> 
> Usually I see it in the order
> English| Deutsch| Español| Français| Italiano| Japanese|
> Korean| Nederlands| Russian
> with leaving out the non-translated docs.
(Continue reading)

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Sven Vermeulen | 5 May 2003 18:25
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Re: Please add link to docs.xml

On Mon, May 05, 2003 at 03:47:39PM +0100, Masatomo Nakano wrote:
> Can anyone add a doc/ja/openafs.xml link to main/en/docs.xml?
> It's Japanese translation document which is already available on the CVS.

Done.

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Sven Vermeulen | 5 May 2003 18:35
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Re: Order of translated docs

On Mon, May 05, 2003 at 12:07:44PM -0400, Carl Anderson wrote:
> If it's a matter of having the translation in the same place every time, we'd
> have to have placeholders for those translations that don't exist--so that the
> user always knows to click, say, three from the right or something.

Nah, we'd get too much e-mails "where are the translations?". Some languages
won't have translated documents for a long time.

> I'd advocate for English first (since all docs are in English first), then for
> the rest in English alphabetical order.  I think your proposed list is
> basically like this.  

I agree. English and then alphabetical. Also, the languages which can be
displayed with arabic chars (or how are they called) should have their
language written in their native language (Dutch -> Nederlands, French ->
Français, German -> Deutsh, ...). Sadly this is impossible (well, I'm not
certain actually) for other character sets, such as of the Japanese
translations.

Wkr,
	Sven Vermeulen

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Josiah Ritchie | 5 May 2003 19:27

Re: Order of translated docs

Could they be setup in a table format and then the ones available would be a
certain color and not available would be another color (just black) to make it
obviously unavailable.  That would be a place holder and make things clear for
the non-color blind at least. :-)

JSR/

Lars Weiler scripted ::

>Hi,
>
>do we have a system how to order the translations in
>docs.xml?
>
>Usually I see it in the order
>English| Deutsch| Español| Français| Italiano| Japanese|
>Korean| Nederlands| Russian
>with leaving out the non-translated docs.
>
>But on some docs there is another order.  I think it would
>be fine for the users, when they can find their preferred
>languages everytime at the same place (like for Germans
>between English and Spanish).
>
>Collecting the translations I would prefer an order like
>this:
>
>English| Deutsch| Español| Français| Italiano| Nederlands|
>Svenska| Japanese| Chinese| Korean| Russian| Czech
>
(Continue reading)

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Sven Vermeulen | 5 May 2003 19:34
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Re: Order of translated docs

On Mon, May 05, 2003 at 01:27:57PM -0400, Josiah Ritchie wrote:
> Could they be setup in a table format and then the ones available would be a
> certain color and not available would be another color (just black) to make it
> obviously unavailable.  That would be a place holder and make things clear for
> the non-color blind at least. :-)

Well, just having links or not (absence of <a href="...">...</a>) is enough:
the links will be colo(u)red by the browser, and blind people will be able to
see (ehrm, feel) the difference.

Table's aren't necessary.

But as I mentioned, I'm against this. Having a guideline on how to add links
should suffice.

Wkr,
	Sven Vermeulen

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Josiah Ritchie | 5 May 2003 20:10

Re: Order of translated docs

>Table's aren't necessary.

The table concept is to provide a box.  That way you can kinda check off things.
 It appears much more structured, but some consider it to look ugly.  Whatever
is decided would work fine though.  For that matter the current works ok as far
as I can tell.

JSR/

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Lars Weiler | 5 May 2003 19:32
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Re: Order of translated docs

* Sven Vermeulen <swift <at> gentoo.org> [03/05/05 18:35 +0200]:
>On Mon, May 05, 2003 at 12:07:44PM -0400, Carl Anderson wrote:
>> If it's a matter of having the translation in the same place every time, we'd
>> have to have placeholders for those translations that don't exist--so that the
>> user always knows to click, say, three from the right or something.
>
>Nah, we'd get too much e-mails "where are the translations?". Some languages
>won't have translated documents for a long time.

Good point!

I'm thinking about a change of docs.xml.  We have _one_ list
with all so far supported languages at the top and bottom.
After clicking on one of these links, a new site will be
loaded.  There are _all_ documents, wether translated or
not.  The translated documents are shown with their
translated title, the non-translated are in English.  At the
top of main/lang/docs.xml will be a small part with the
information "When a document is only available in English,
feel free to translate... blabla".

This thoughts can be written in XML/XSL quite easy.  So we
have need of another xsl-file for the docs or upgrade the
guide.xsl that the output when accessing "docs.xml" should
be different.

In detail we would have a link to an (or better more)
external list-file inside docs.xml that only contains a list
of the documents that should be shown in docs.xml (as far as
I can see, the filenames are in every language the same, so
(Continue reading)

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Sven Vermeulen | 6 May 2003 08:55
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Re: Order of translated docs

On Mon, May 05, 2003 at 07:32:53PM +0200, Lars Weiler wrote:
> I'm thinking about a change of docs.xml.  
[...]

I tend to disagree on all proposals :)

The reasoning behind this is that the current implementation doesn't really
have drawbacks. You can easily see what documents are available, and in what
languages. You can see if a language is available or not. What do we need
more? There's a saying that sais "if it aint broken, don't fix it". I think
it applies here too.

Wkr,
	Sven Vermeulen

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