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Duncan | 1 Jun 2008 01:57
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Re: RFC: --as-needed to default LDFLAGS

Mike Auty <ikelos <at> gentoo.org> posted 4841A7DA.7060605 <at> gentoo.org,
excerpted below, on  Sat, 31 May 2008 20:32:42 +0100:

> I think you're looking for the wrong things.  I'm not an expert, but I
> think --as-needed means that if there are 20 libraries on your system
> that use libexpat.so.0 and 400 programs that use those 20 libraries,
> when libexpat is updated to libexpat.so.1, you only need to rebuild the
> 20 libraries, not all 420 packages (as you would do otherwise).  I
> believe that's the main reason for using as-needed...

That has certainly been my experience.  I've had way less rebuilds to 
worry about since I added that to my LDFLAGS and rebuilt the system.  
revdep-rebuild -p, which I run regularly after major world upgrades, 
returns far fewer packages to rebuild, now.

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Robert Buchholz | 1 Jun 2008 11:06
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Re: VCS repository overview for Gentoo

On Friday 30 May 2008, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
> This is more of a reminder email than anything else, in my capacity
> as the VCS administrator for Gentoo.

Thanks a lot for the overview, especially the part about public/private 
repositories. It would be great if this list could be maintained as 
parts of the infrastructure project docs. I can convert to xml if 
necessary.

Robert
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Mike Frysinger | 1 Jun 2008 07:30
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Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for June

This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
(#gentoo-council  <at>  irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
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Alec Warner | 1 Jun 2008 11:36
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Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for June

On 01 Jun 2008 05:30:01, Mike Frysinger <vapier <at> gentoo.org> wrote:
> This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
>  the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
>  (#gentoo-council  <at>  irc.freenode.net) !
>
>  If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
>  vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
>  Gentoo dev list to see.

I would like the council to vote on whether --as-needed will be added
to gentoo by default or not.

>
>  Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
>  must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
>  before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
>  before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
>  notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.
>
>  For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
>  http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
>
> --
>  gentoo-dev <at> lists.gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
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Mart Raudsepp | 1 Jun 2008 14:25
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Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for June

On P, 2008-06-01 at 05:30 +0000, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
> the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
> (#gentoo-council  <at>  irc.freenode.net) !
> 
> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.

I am still waiting on seeing any results or follow-ups on this:

        Can the council help fewer bugs get ignored by arm/sh/s390 teams?
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        The work happens, but Mart says it's not communicated to anyone and 
        has no relationship to whether bugs are open.

        We need to understand the workflow of undermanned arch teams and see 
        whether there's anything we can help improve.

        Possibly improving recuitment -- add a good, motivating 
        staffing-needs entry.

I still don't see any staffing needs entry or other methods to solve
this beyond declaring them as dev profiles which doesn't help with the
bugs, and I can't know if any effort has been underway for understanding
the workflow. Without an update, it gives the impression nothing has
been done, which I don't want to believe. I'd appreciate an update - not
necessarily as part of the council agenda, but perhaps just per mail,
with any discussions if any is necessary during the meeting.
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Rémi Cardona | 1 Jun 2008 18:44
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Re: Re: RFC: --as-needed to default LDFLAGS

Ulrich Mueller a écrit :
> Speaking about statistics: Either I have missed it, or so far nobody
> has presented any solid numbers showing what the benefit of
> --as-needed in terms of memory usage or program startup time is.

The reduction in startup time may not be noticeable.

The real win is when low level libs change ABI, like expat. On a 
standard Gnome system, without --as-needed, I had over 280 packages to 
rebuild (that was a very slow Duron 700Mhz, I ended up moving to 
--as-needed and did emerge -e world).

On my other box which had had --as-needed for a while (so some useless 
rebuild could have been further avoided), I only had around 45 packages.

And for the sake of the thread, had libtool been smarter, I'm sure that 
the final number could have gone down to 20 or so packages.

My opinion:
  - we need --as-needed because it's useful (maybe ld could echo the 
libs that's it's dropping and then we could have a QA warning?)
  - we *do* need to fix libtool too
  - we need to make sure upstream packages provide correct .pc files

Just a thought :)

Rémi
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Raúl Porcel | 1 Jun 2008 19:41
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Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for June

Requesting ~arch keywords: Is a maintainer able to request ~arch 
keywords, if the package is not a dependency of some other package which 
is keyworded, and the maintainer doesn't have that arch?

IMHO the packages should be keyworded if an arch team member or an user 
of that arch requests it. Keywording something if an user of said arch 
doesn't request it, is a waste of resources.
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Ryan Hill | 1 Jun 2008 23:54
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Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for June

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 19:41:28 +0200
Raúl Porcel <armin76 <at> gentoo.org> wrote:

> Requesting ~arch keywords: Is a maintainer able to request ~arch 
> keywords, if the package is not a dependency of some other package
> which is keyworded, and the maintainer doesn't have that arch?

Yes.  Last time I looked anyone could request a keyword.

> IMHO the packages should be keyworded if an arch team member or an
> user of that arch requests it. Keywording something if an user of
> said arch doesn't request it, is a waste of resources.

How is making things available to your users a waste of resources?
Anyways, if you're so far behind that you don't think you can manage
keywording another package then just say so and deny the request.

What does this have to do with council?

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Robin H. Johnson | 2 Jun 2008 02:15
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Automated Package Removal and Addition Tracker, for the week ending 2008-06-01 23h59 UTC

The attached list notes all of the packages that were added or removed
from the tree, for the week ending 2008-06-01 23h59 UTC.

Removals:
media-sound/gtkguitune          	2008-05-27 12:52:48	drac
media-sound/playspc_gtk         	2008-05-27 12:52:49	drac
media-sound/yconsole            	2008-05-27 12:52:49	drac
media-gfx/iv                    	2008-05-27 12:53:32	drac
media-video/gqcam               	2008-05-27 12:54:22	drac
sys-apps/systrace               	2008-05-27 12:55:13	drac
net-fs/coda-kernel              	2008-05-27 12:56:00	drac
app-arch/debhelper              	2008-05-29 15:37:02	yvasilev
dev-lang/ezm3                   	2008-05-31 04:40:00	vapier
dev-util/cvsup                  	2008-05-31 04:40:21	vapier
media-fonts/fireflysung         	2008-05-31 07:21:57	loki_val
app-portage/portage-manpages    	2008-05-31 18:05:27	vapier
media-plugins/libao-pulse       	2008-05-31 18:16:47	drac
gnome-extra/gnome2-user-docs    	2008-06-01 21:39:54	remi

Additions:
media-fonts/tibetan-machine-font	2008-05-26 10:43:24	loki_val
sci-biology/amos                	2008-05-26 14:47:52	weaver
media-fonts/thaifonts-scalable  	2008-05-28 06:07:52	loki_val
app-i18n/unicode-data           	2008-05-28 17:16:34	loki_val
media-libs/raul                 	2008-05-29 08:24:48	aballier
x11-libs/flowcanvas             	2008-05-29 08:43:51	aballier
media-sound/patchage            	2008-05-29 08:46:53	aballier
app-emulation/fuse-utils        	2008-05-30 01:56:01	darkside
x11-terms/sakura                	2008-05-30 07:39:36	jmglov
media-fonts/opendesktop-fonts   	2008-05-30 08:10:37	loki_val
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Richard Freeman | 2 Jun 2008 05:30
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Re: Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for June

Ryan Hill wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 19:41:28 +0200
> Raúl Porcel <armin76 <at> gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
>> IMHO the packages should be keyworded if an arch team member or an
>> user of that arch requests it. Keywording something if an user of
>> said arch doesn't request it, is a waste of resources.
> 
> How is making things available to your users a waste of resources?
> Anyways, if you're so far behind that you don't think you can manage
> keywording another package then just say so and deny the request.
> 

++

I'd like to comment that in theory a package maintainer should have a 
decent idea of what archs a particular package should work on.  I can't 
imagine that the vmware maintainers are going to be sending keyword 
requests to the sparc team...
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