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Mike Frysinger | 1 Mar 2007 06:30
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Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for March

This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically the
2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC), same bat channel (#gentoo-council  <at> 
irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
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Marijn Schouten (hkBst | 1 Mar 2007 11:49
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more up to date minimal install cd


I was wondering what is keeping us from releasing a minimal install cd more often than we do now.
Isn't almost everything needed for it already in the stable tree and thus tested? And if so isn't
it possible to fully automate generation of these cd's?

Marijn
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Andrew Gaffney | 1 Mar 2007 13:24
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Re: more up to date minimal install cd

Marijn Schouten (hkBst) wrote:
> I was wondering what is keeping us from releasing a minimal install cd more often than we do now.
> Isn't almost everything needed for it already in the stable tree and thus tested? And if so isn't
> it possible to fully automate generation of these cd's?

Time and sanity. Sure, it can be built pretty quickly, but there's a bit of 
testing that needs to go into it before it can be released to the mirrors. 
Release time is hectic enough, and you want us (releng) to do it more often than 
bi-annually?

Also, what's the point? Everything you use to install from the minimal is 
fetched from the internet. The only thing that an updated minimal would give us 
is a slightly more hardware support during the install.

-- 
Andrew Gaffney                            http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux Developer                                   Installer Project
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Caleb Tennis | 1 Mar 2007 13:45
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Re: Packages requiring explicit db versions?

To follow up to this, I am planning on package.masking sys-libs/db 4.0 and 4.1
sometime in the near future, to be followed up by their removal in ~30 days.

If this poses a problem to you, a package you maintain, one of your family members,
or some exotic animal you may or may not own, please let me know.

Caleb

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Tiziano Mueller | 1 Mar 2007 13:52
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Re: more up to date minimal install cd

Marijn Schouten (hkBst) wrote:
> I was wondering what is keeping us from releasing a minimal install cd more often than we do now.
> Isn't almost everything needed for it already in the stable tree and thus tested? And if so isn't
> it possible to fully automate generation of these cd's?

I'd rather like to see that the stages are being updated more often.

Cheers,
Tiziano
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Andrew Gaffney | 1 Mar 2007 15:39
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Re: more up to date minimal install cd

Simon Stelling wrote:
> That being said, I think this is really up to the releng team and noone
> else. They are doing the work, so we can discuss it far and wide, as
> long as releng doesn't want to do it, nothing will happen. So maybe we
> should wait for a statement from Chris before doing anything else.

I can tell you right now what Chris's answer is going to be.

If you're volunteering to do it, join releng and have at it. As it is now, most 
members of releng do not have the time and/or desire to do a release more often 
than bi-annually.

-- 
Andrew Gaffney                            http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux Developer                                   Installer Project
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Simon Stelling | 1 Mar 2007 15:27
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Re: more up to date minimal install cd

Marijn Schouten (hkBst) wrote:
> This slightly more hardware support is almost always what new boxen need. Of course people can
> install Gentoo from another more up to date other distro, but wouldn't it be better if that were
> optional and not mandatory? That if people have new hardware which is not supported by their own
> distro, that they can pop in the latest gentoo cd and know that if there is any distro whose
> install cd supports their hardware, that gentoo will too?

Sure it would be nice, but this has its price too, namely a lot more
time spent on bringing releases out.

> There would also be many more chances to fix things, since these images would be relatiely short
> lived. Since each image would be more similar than the previous one than our current 6 months apart
> releases are to eachother, testing could be spread out more. And our users would get more chances

Uhm, just because you release more often, that doesn't mean you need
less testing to get the same level of quality.

That being said, I think this is really up to the releng team and noone
else. They are doing the work, so we can discuss it far and wide, as
long as releng doesn't want to do it, nothing will happen. So maybe we
should wait for a statement from Chris before doing anything else.

-- 
Kind Regards,

Simon Stelling
Gentoo/AMD64 developer
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(Continue reading)

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Caleb Cushing | 1 Mar 2007 15:22
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Re: more up to date minimal install cd

I personnally would like to see stage tarballs updated more frequently
if an arch receives a major update in system, like gcc or glibc, even
if this is only an r patch because these are a pain to install, and by
update I mean something new goes stable. Such releases are infrequent,
but make it painful when doing a new install because you know that you
have to rebuild world from the start.

On 3/1/07, Marijn Schouten (hkBst) <hkBst <at> gentoo.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Andrew Gaffney wrote:
> > Also, what's the point? Everything you use to install from the minimal
> > is fetched from the internet. The only thing that an updated minimal
> > would give us is a slightly more hardware support during the install.
>
> This slightly more hardware support is almost always what new boxen need. Of course people can
> install Gentoo from another more up to date other distro, but wouldn't it be better if that were
> optional and not mandatory? That if people have new hardware which is not supported by their own
> distro, that they can pop in the latest gentoo cd and know that if there is any distro whose
> install cd supports their hardware, that gentoo will too?
>
> There would also be many more chances to fix things, since these images would be relatiely short
> lived. Since each image would be more similar than the previous one than our current 6 months apart
> releases are to eachother, testing could be spread out more. And our users would get more chances
> to help us test. Releng might not have to take a snapshot and try to stable it a la debian. Instead
> all developers could work together to fix bugs in stable found by users testing the install cd.
>
> Marijn
>
(Continue reading)

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Robin H. Johnson | 1 Mar 2007 14:50
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Re: more up to date minimal install cd

On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 11:49:25AM +0100, Marijn Schouten (hkBst) wrote:
> I was wondering what is keeping us from releasing a minimal install cd more often than we do now.
> Isn't almost everything needed for it already in the stable tree and thus tested? And if so isn't
> it possible to fully automate generation of these cd's?
As agaffney points out, it's more that our actual CD releases are
intended to be well tested. While we could do daily builds of the
install CD, you really would not gain much beyond minor hardware fixes.

As opposed to minimal CDs, I would see weekly builds of stage3 tarballs
to be much more useful.

--

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Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux Developer
E-Mail     : robbat2 <at> gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85
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Marijn Schouten (hkBst | 1 Mar 2007 15:14
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Re: more up to date minimal install cd


Andrew Gaffney wrote:
> Also, what's the point? Everything you use to install from the minimal
> is fetched from the internet. The only thing that an updated minimal
> would give us is a slightly more hardware support during the install.

This slightly more hardware support is almost always what new boxen need. Of course people can
install Gentoo from another more up to date other distro, but wouldn't it be better if that were
optional and not mandatory? That if people have new hardware which is not supported by their own
distro, that they can pop in the latest gentoo cd and know that if there is any distro whose
install cd supports their hardware, that gentoo will too?

There would also be many more chances to fix things, since these images would be relatiely short
lived. Since each image would be more similar than the previous one than our current 6 months apart
releases are to eachother, testing could be spread out more. And our users would get more chances
to help us test. Releng might not have to take a snapshot and try to stable it a la debian. Instead
all developers could work together to fix bugs in stable found by users testing the install cd.

Marijn
Permalink | Reply | 23 comments |

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