Leaving Gentoo

Hi all,

I'm leaving Gentoo. This isn't due to ill feelings or anything like that; I 
just have no time to work on Gentoo anymore, and have been 'dormant' for many 
months now. This isn't going to change anytime soon, and so there's no point 
in my keeping the account.

I've enjoyed working on Gentoo over the years, and have learned a lot and met 
many interesting people... Take care everyone, and take care of Gentoo for 
me 

Infra: please remove my accounts and cvs/ssh access, kde herd membership, and 
homedir. I'll unsubscribe myself from the lists as needed, but please 
unsubscribe me from the kde <at> gentoo.org and from -core, since I'm not sure how 
to do that myself.

I'll be reachable by email at danarmak <at> gmail.com. I'd appreciate it if 
danarmak <at> gentoo.org email continues to be redirected for a little while, 
either to danarmak <at> gmail.com or to where it currently goes via my ~/.forward.

--

-- 
Dan Armak
Gentoo Linux developer (KDE)
Public GPG key: http://dev.gentoo.org/~danarmak/danarmak-gpg-public.key
Fingerprint: DD70 DBF9 E3D4 6CB9 2FDD  0069 508D 9143 8D5F 8951

UTF-8 encoding and file format of manuals

Respectful Gentoo developers,

I would like to ask what do you think about UTF-8 encoded manual pages?
I mean, the files like ls.1.gz, which are used by honorable "man" program.
Recently I attacked the problem a little and before submitting any
patches/proposals to Gentoo bugzilla I'd like to know your opinions first.

Disclaimer: for daily use I have LANG="pl_PL.UTF-8" and LC_ALL="pl_PL.UTF-8",
but the original issue is of a more universal nature.

Back on subject. ISO-8859-* 8-bit encodings are fine and most localized
manuals use them. However, there are some examples where UTF-8 manuals are
installed as well. Namely, newest portage uses "linguas_pl" by this means:

$ emerge -pv portage
[ebuild   R   ] sys-apps/portage-2.1_rc3-r3  USE="-build -doc" LINGUAS="pl"

In effect, a translated manual pages are added to the system. The problem
is that they use UTF-8 encoding. Having both man-pages-pl and this version
of portage installed gives unexpected results. This way "man ls" prints all
the letters with correct encoding, but "man emerge" does not. On the other
hand, if "man" is configured to display UTF-8 encoded manuals correctly,
all the other manuals print funny characters instead of desired output.

I wrote a simple script [1] which checks all installed Polish manuals by
using "file" program. For "pl" locale it produces currently about ~70kB
of text, and for default locale it's about 458kB. After grepping for all
occurences of "UTF" I've found out that only the newest portage's manuals
are in UTF-8 ("pl"), plus: flow.1, gnome-keyring-manager.1, ImageMagick.1,
Encode::Unicode::UTF7.3pm (but I think they are false positives, anyway).

Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for June

This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically the
2nd Thursday once a month), same bat channel (#gentoo-council  <at> 
irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every *re*submission to the council for review must
first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum) before
being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days before the
meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be notified at
least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
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gentoo-dev <at> gentoo.org mailing list

Re: UTF-8 encoding and file format of manuals

Wiktor Wandachowicz wrote:
> Summing up:
> * UTF-8 manuals: good or bad?

The Only Way To Go (tm), IMHO. Let's let the legacy encodings die in piece.

> Any constructive comments are more than welcome!

The very same problem exists with man-pages-cs (which are outdated as a
bonus).

Blésmrt,
-jkt

--

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cd /local/pub && more beer > /dev/mouth

Re: UTF-8 encoding and file format of manuals

Jan Kundrát wrote:
> Wiktor Wandachowicz wrote:
> 
>>Summing up:
>>* UTF-8 manuals: good or bad?
> 
> 
> The Only Way To Go (tm), IMHO. Let's let the legacy encodings die in piece.

Agreed. I'd like to see much more extensive use of Unicode throughout my system
by default. Unicode man pages are a good idea.

Re: UTF-8 encoding and file format of manuals

On Thursday 01 June 2006 20:19, Jan Kundrát wrote:
> Wiktor Wandachowicz wrote:
> > Summing up:
> > * UTF-8 manuals: good or bad?
>
> The Only Way To Go (tm), IMHO. Let's let the legacy encodings die in piece.

Would it be possible to do automatic detection and unicode conversion in the 
portage install stage? I think that would probably be the best option. At a 
later stage a simple detection and warning might be sufficient.

Paul

--

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv <at> gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

Re: UTF-8 encoding and file format of manuals

Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> On Thursday 01 June 2006 20:19, Jan Kundrát wrote:
>> Wiktor Wandachowicz wrote:
>>> Summing up:
>>> * UTF-8 manuals: good or bad?
>> The Only Way To Go (tm), IMHO. Let's let the legacy encodings die in piece.
> 
> Would it be possible to do automatic detection and unicode conversion in the 
> portage install stage? I think that would probably be the best option. At a 
> later stage a simple detection and warning might be sufficient.
> 
> Paul
> 
I'd agree. Forcing UTF-8/unicode on those of us who don't want the extra
bloat is a "bad thing"

Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for June

On Thursday 01 June 2006 13:02, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically the
> 2nd Thursday once a month), same bat channel (#gentoo-council  <at> 
> irc.freenode.net) !
>
> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.
>
> Keep in mind that every *re*submission to the council for review must
> first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum) before
> being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days before the
> meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be notified at
> least 14 days before the meeting itself.

I would like the council to discuss GLEP 49 as has been discussed on the list 
some weeks ago. It is about the package manager requirements.

Paul

--

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv <at> gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for June

Paul de Vrieze wrote: [Thu Jun 01 2006, 02:44:39PM CDT]
> I would like the council to discuss GLEP 49 as has been discussed on
> the list some weeks ago. It is about the package manager requirements.

Incidentally, I drafted a competing GLEP that I posted to -dev
(<20060522172314.GB7577 <at> dst.grantgoodyear.org>) that was either
overlooked in the rest of that thread or ignored because people
considered it to be useless; I'm not sure which.  In any event, I just
want to bring it to the council's attention as an alternative approach.

-g2boojum-
--

-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum <at> gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

GLEP: xx
Title: Supporting alternative package managers
Version: $Revision: 1.3 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2005/11/13 17:16:50 $
Author: Grant Goodyear <g2boojum <at> gentoo.org>
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 22-May-2006

Abstract

Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for June

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 15:00:13 -0500
Grant Goodyear <g2boojum <at> gentoo.org> wrote:

> Paul de Vrieze wrote: [Thu Jun 01 2006, 02:44:39PM CDT]
> > I would like the council to discuss GLEP 49 as has been discussed on
> > the list some weeks ago. It is about the package manager
> > requirements.
> 
> Incidentally, I drafted a competing GLEP that I posted to -dev
> (<20060522172314.GB7577 <at> dst.grantgoodyear.org>) that was either
> overlooked in the rest of that thread or ignored because people
> considered it to be useless; I'm not sure which.  In any event, I just
> want to bring it to the council's attention as an alternative
> approach.

Well, it's definitely better than the overengineered one by Paul.

Marius

-- 
Public Key at http://www.genone.de/info/gpg-key.pub

In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be
Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better.
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