Can this person be helped?

On a LUG mailing list to which I subscribe, I enjoy the regular postings
of another subscriber who works primarily with Windows.  She seems to
make a point of posting a message whenever she encounters a non-Windows
system that has a security issue.  While I'm sure she means well, the
messages seem to have a "You Linux geeks think you're all that, but
you're not!" tone.  She never seems to post about problems with Windows
systems, but then again, how could she find the time?

This is really just a minor annoyance, but I am struck by the failure of
this person to get Linux.  Her point of view has been so strongly shaped
by Windows use that she just can't seem to understand anything else.  Is
there a way to reach people like this, or must we just write them off as
computing's lost generation?  Is there a twelve step program?

Cheers,
Tom

-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Tom Clark <tclark <at> requisitesystems.com>
To: dlslug-discuss <at> dlslug.org
Subject: Re: [DLSLUG-Discuss] RE: Viruses
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 14:00:47 -0500

On Wed, 2006-02-08 at 11:53 -0500, Anne wrote:
> My point was not that the MAC was infected nor was it that the Linux
> Network at another site was hit with the php vulnerability and was
> majorly trashed... My point was that all Operating systems have
> vulnerabilities.

But this wasn't an operating system vulnerability, was it?  It was an

Re: Can this person be helped?

begin Tom Clark quotation of Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 02:38:29PM -0500:

> This is really just a minor annoyance, but I am struck by the failure of
> this person to get Linux.  Her point of view has been so strongly shaped
> by Windows use that she just can't seem to understand anything else.  Is
> there a way to reach people like this, or must we just write them off as
> computing's lost generation?  Is there a twelve step program?

All IT arguments are based on rationalizing what
the user has already chosen for social or emotional
reasons.  So you're probably wasting your time.

Based on watching the advisories flow by, a typical
free software distribution probably has more security
vulnerabilities open at any one time than a typical
Microsoft Windows product.

Yes, that's right, more.

But the catch is that our side's package management
tools give us features and affordances to install
as little software as possible.  So nobody
installs as much of "the distribution" as a
proprietary software user installs of "the product".
This effect seems to be pretty constant -- as less
(experienced/software-distrusting) administrators get
put in charge of Linux boxes, the package management
policies, defaults, and tools are getting better.

--

-- 

Re: Can this person be helped?

Don Marti wrote:

> All IT arguments are based on rationalizing what the user has 
> already chosen for social or emotional reasons. 

The above is a very weak claim. It seems to convey information about
the nature of "IT arguments." But, unless you first say how IT
arguments differ from any other kinds of arguments -- supposing they
do -- the above is equivalent to "All IT arguments are matters of
opinion." One would be hard-pressed then to say how that was not
equivalent to "All arguments are matters of opinion."

Sorry about the errant frappr invite!

--

-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
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Re: Can this person be helped?

On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 02:38:29PM -0500, Tom Clark wrote:
> On a LUG mailing list to which I subscribe, I enjoy the regular postings
> of another subscriber who works primarily with Windows.  She seems to
> make a point of posting a message whenever she encounters a non-Windows
> system that has a security issue.

Issues she personally encounters, or reads about somewhere else?  
In any case I'm sure it's quite nice of her.

> While I'm sure she means well, the messages seem to have a "You Linux
> geeks think you're all that, but you're not!" tone. 

And...?  Is this something you feel a need to take personally?

> She never seems to post about problems with Windows systems, 

That's quite nice of her as well.  After all, it's a Linux list.

> This is really just a minor annoyance, but I am struck by the failure of
> this person to get Linux. 

What's to get?

> Her point of view has been so strongly shaped by Windows use that she
> just can't seem to understand anything else.  Is there a way to reach
> people like this, or must we just write them off as computing's lost
> generation?  Is there a twelve step program?

Why?  As a motorcycle user, I don't feel the need to "reach" people who
don't ride.  I just watch out for the clueless ones and encourage the

utf-8 terminal apps

I've switched to utf-8 on my (v)server, and now have a few problems
with utf-8 proofed terminals. OS X and FC4 Terminal handle it fine (are
dog slow however, especially with antialiased fonts), so does PuTTY with 
the right translation selected.

However, I was getting used to Eterm, and apparently that one doesn't
handle utf-8 properly yet.

Any alternative suggestions?

--

-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820            http://www.ativel.com
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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Re: utf-8 terminal apps

Eugen Leitl <eugen <at> leitl.org> writes:

> I've switched to utf-8 on my (v)server, and now have a few problems
> with utf-8 proofed terminals. OS X and FC4 Terminal handle it fine (are
> dog slow however, especially with antialiased fonts), so does PuTTY with 
> the right translation selected.
>
> However, I was getting used to Eterm, and apparently that one doesn't
> handle utf-8 properly yet.
>
> Any alternative suggestions?

I've always been pretty happy with xterm in general.  There's a uxterm
wrapper script to start it in utf-8 mode.

--

-- 
Dag vijandelijk luchtschip de huismeester is dood
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Re: utf-8 terminal apps

On Monday 13 February 2006 22:07, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> I've switched to utf-8 on my (v)server, and now have a few problems
> with utf-8 proofed terminals. OS X and FC4 Terminal handle it fine (are
> dog slow however, especially with antialiased fonts), so does PuTTY with
> the right translation selected.
>
> However, I was getting used to Eterm, and apparently that one doesn't
> handle utf-8 properly yet.
>
> Any alternative suggestions?

KDE's konsole works fine with UTF-8.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish      shlomif <at> iglu.org.il
Homepage:        http://www.shlomifish.org/

95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the
bottom 5%.
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Re: utf-8 terminal apps

>> On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 21:07:13, Eugen Leitl <eugen <at> leitl.org> said:

   > However, I was getting used to Eterm, and apparently that one
   > doesn't handle utf-8 properly yet.

It doesn't handle many things properly, I'm afraid.  Eterm has had 
the dubious honour of having, alongside buffer overflow problems, a
vulnerability whereby someone can trick you into running arbitrary code
as your user by *sending an escape sequence to your terminal*, from as
many systems away as they like.  See:

    http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10237/discuss

    > Any alternative suggestions?

I use xterm.  It has Unicode support, and doesn't have the history of
rendering slowness that gnome-terminal has.  I'd love to see a terminal
that incorporates some of the features of GNU screen -- being able to
search through scrollback and being able to detach the terminal from the
X server it's running on and attach it to a different one without losing
any state would both be useful. 

Having just written about gnome-terminal slowness, I see this blog post:

   http://davyd.livejournal.com/166736.html

which shows gnome-terminal (now) rendering faster than xterm.  I can
reproduce the numbers.  Well done to the Gnome developers:

xterm: 

Oracle: friend or foe?

So first Oracle buys InnoDB

http://www.oracle.com/corporate/press/2005_oct/inno.html

then Sleepycat:

http://blog.sleepycat.com/2006/02/next-ten-years.html

Both of whom supply "storage engine" technology to MySQL.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1894041,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03119TX1K0000594
http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/innodb.html

"Sleepy Cat CEO says "Oracle deal and attempt to disrupt MySQL"
http://searchopensource.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gci1140527,00.html

>
> NEWTON, Mass. -- Oracle Corp.'s acquisition of Innobase OY is largely
> an effort to disrupt rival database vendor MySQL AB and is a testament
> to the growing momentum of open source software (OSS), the outspoken
> president and CEO of SleepyCat Software said in an interview.

So much for the rumored storage engine replacement from Sleepycat:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1893579,00.asp

Now obviously these engines are still source availble, and Oracle may
even continue to develop them, but probably not along directions that
make life at MySQL any easier.   Even with the technology, MySQL AB's
revenue stream is going to get more difficult to maintain.

Jim

Re: Can this person be helped?

on Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 02:38:29PM -0500, Tom Clark (tclark <at> requisitesystems.com) wrote:
> On a LUG mailing list to which I subscribe, I enjoy the regular postings
> of another subscriber who works primarily with Windows.  She seems to
> make a point of posting a message whenever she encounters a non-Windows
> system that has a security issue.  While I'm sure she means well, the
> messages seem to have a "You Linux geeks think you're all that, but
> you're not!" tone.  She never seems to post about problems with Windows
> systems, but then again, how could she find the time?

It's a fair point that GNU/Linux has its security vulnerabilities.  Some
of these affect the kernel directly, but the vast majority are systems
software and/or configurations settings, many of which are not specific
to any one distro or even GNU/Linux itself.

> This is really just a minor annoyance, but I am struck by the failure of
> this person to get Linux.  Her point of view has been so strongly shaped
> by Windows use that she just can't seem to understand anything else.  Is
> there a way to reach people like this, or must we just write them off as
> computing's lost generation?  Is there a twelve step program?

One approach I've found is somewhat useful is to answer the specific
vulnerability claim.  I've found that this often helps both you and the
'Dozer in question get a clearer picture of GNU/Linux's actual
vulnerability status.

I've found that such responses often fall into the categories of:

  - That affects another distro, not mine.
  - That affects another kernel, not mine.
  - That affects another HW architecture, not mine.