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Modus Operandi | 3 Aug 2005 01:44
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Re: Did Linux-Elitists Mailing List drop off...

In the immortal words of Teh Entar-Nick <nick <at> teh.entar.net>:
> begin  Charles Mauch  quotation:
> > > What's the right header to put in your outgoing mail 
> > > to pimp your feed?
> > >
> > > X-D3wd-Check-Out-My-RSS-Feed: 
> > 
> > I like.  Adding it to my mutt headers file... Can't have enuough
> > headers.
> 
> 	How does your "mutt headers file" work?  Is it just an included
> chunk of .muttrc, or is there some elite magic for this?

  Since Charles didn't bother to answer, I'd presume that he's referring
  to the my_hdr chunk of his .muttrc -- but his .signature is something
  else entirely. There's definitely some "elite magic" at work there,
  where he scrapes his audio player for "Now Playing" data.

--

-- 
/home/modus/.signature
Tue Aug  2 19:38:28 EDT 2005
The Moon is Waning Crescent (4% of Full)
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Modus Operandi | 3 Aug 2005 02:15
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apropos of nothing

Hey all,

    At risk of reinforcing your impression of me as a perennially
    confused elitist-wannabee (well-warranted, although my non-technical
    friends seem to think I'm some kind of whiz) I'd like to ask about
    something that's been unclear to me lately: the mysterious
    relationship between the CPAN versions of Perl modules and the
    $DEBIAN_FLAVOR packages which also provide Perl module support.

    To wit: a recent Mailman upgrade dragged our Perl version along with
    it, breaking all the Perl modules associated with the earlier
    version. I used CPAN to replace the simple ones like Date::Calc
    which we needed for our Blosxom blogs. But just today, I received an
    urgent email from a remote shell user who asked me to restore
    "libhtml-parser-perl" (which his SpamAssassin version requires.)

    I used CPAN to install HTML::Parser -- and I also used apt-get to
    install libhtml-parser-perl -- so was this redundant?

    This is the second time I've been baffled by this discrepancy. Using
    CPAN to complile Image::Magick proved to be unexpectedly difficult,
    so I used apt-get to install perlmagick, which seemed to work. Yet
    perl -MCPAN -e 'install Image::Magick' still shows the same errors.

    Intuitively, I suppose that apt-get is installing a working binary,
    while CPAN is trying to build the Perl module from sources (and
    sometimes hanging up on some dependencies along the way.) But it
    would be nice to know for sure, instead of just guessing.

    That's why I'm glad I'm on this list, with a bunch of people who are
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Charles Mauch | 3 Aug 2005 04:24

Re: Did Linux-Elitists Mailing List drop off...

Greetings from Tacoma, WA, USA, only 2,668 cars stolen last year, Modus!
On Tuesday, August 02, in the 2005th year of our Lord, you wrote:

> Since Charles didn't bother to answer, I'd presume that he's referring to 
> the my_hdr chunk of his .muttrc -- but his .signature is something else 
> entirely. There's definitely some "elite magic" at work there, where he 
> scrapes his audio player for "Now Playing" data.

My headers file can be viewed at:
http://charles.mauch.name/mutt-links/headers

And the signature generator can be viewed at:
http://charles.mauch.name/mutt-links/signature.sh.txt

The signature generator sucks data out of muine or amarok (depending what
I'm using).  If neither is running, it runs signify to make the script say
something cute.  I also have categories of signatures, which format
slightly differently, and each signature needs to be fed an email address.

So in my general-be-annoying mailing list config, I have the following
command in my muttrc.

set signature="~/.mutt/signature.sh geek cmauch <at> taclug.org|"

I do a lot of fun things with mutt actually.  Feel free to poke around.  My
mutt page is at http://charles.mauch.name/code/mutt/

Up until a few days ago I was working on a couple of mutt-related perl
projects.  The most complete is a personal procmail replacement using
Email::Filter and a couple of other perl modules.  It does things like
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Simon Perreault | 3 Aug 2005 14:30

Re: apropos of nothing

On Tuesday 02 August 2005 20:15, Modus Operandi wrote:
>     Intuitively, I suppose that apt-get is installing a working binary,
>     while CPAN is trying to build the Perl module from sources (and
>     sometimes hanging up on some dependencies along the way.) But it
>     would be nice to know for sure, instead of just guessing.

That's right. Installing from CPAN is akin to installing some random source 
tarball. Just say no.

We in the RPM world are blessed with cpan2rpm, which makes keeping the 
compiled-from-source stuff to a minimum a lot easier. Take that, Debian 
hippies!

--

-- 
Simon Perreault <nomis80 <at> nomis80.org> -- http://nomis80.org
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Aaron Burt | 3 Aug 2005 20:36

Re: apropos of nothing

On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 08:30:54AM -0400, Simon Perreault wrote:
> On Tuesday 02 August 2005 20:15, Modus Operandi wrote:
> >     Intuitively, I suppose that apt-get is installing a working binary,
> >     while CPAN is trying to build the Perl module from sources (and
> >     sometimes hanging up on some dependencies along the way.) But it
> >     would be nice to know for sure, instead of just guessing.
> 
> That's right. Installing from CPAN is akin to installing some random source 
> tarball. Just say no.

Actually, the worst bit is mixing the two.  The Debian versions of the
Perl modules are mutually compatible, in general, and the Debian
package system handles their dependencies, keeps track of what's
installed and puts them in consistent locations.

Otherwise, it's possible to have two different versions of the same
module installed, with amusing consequences.

If possible, check for the module in Debian first.  Do an "apt-cache
search module-name" or even just try and install it.  The package
naming scheme is based on the CPAN module name, so for e.g.
Frontier::RPC, "apt-get install libfrontier-rpc-perl".

> We in the RPM world are blessed with cpan2rpm, which makes keeping the 
> compiled-from-source stuff to a minimum a lot easier. 

Yup, fine util, similar to dh-make-perl on the Debian/Ubuntu side.

--

-- 
Like most computer techie people, I'll happily spend 6 hours trying
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Bret Martin | 3 Aug 2005 22:59
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Re: apropos of nothing

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 11:36:20 PDT Aaron Burt wrote:
[...]
> Actually, the worst bit is mixing the two.  The Debian versions of the
> Perl modules are mutually compatible, in general, and the Debian
> package system handles their dependencies, keeps track of what's
> installed and puts them in consistent locations.
[...]

In my experience, this "just works" in a fairly sane way -- the 
locally-installed module goes under /usr/local/{lib,share}/perl/... and 
overrides the Debian-packaged one.  (Of course, with dh-make-perl, as 
you point out, there's usually little reason to install in that way.)

--Bret

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Simon Perreault | 4 Aug 2005 16:33

Re: apropos of nothing

On Thursday 04 August 2005 10:12, Greg Folkert wrote:
> Ever heard of "dh-make-perl"?

Sure, Aaron juste mentioned it.

> Far, far better implementation than that cpan2rpm crap you call making
> it easier.

Why so?

> The best part of this whole story, is that *IF* someone DOES decide to
> upload a module or set of modules to the Debian archive, the package
> made by dh-make-perl will be upgraded as well, providing it is newer in
> its version... or even sub-version.

cpan2rpm does this as well.

> Now, what was that about Debian Hippies? If you don't use it and don't
> understand it, please in all respects, don't resort to name calling...
> you RPM-FACIST! And yes, I use rpm. I am currently still supporting many
> systems that use rpm as the primary means for package
> pseudo-management.

You say that cuz you're a Debian hippie.

"Hippies. They're everywhere. They wanna save the earth, but all they do is 
smoke pot and smell bad."

> By pseudo, package management is all about quality control. How many RPM
> distributions have POLICY behind package management and redundancy?
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Greg Folkert | 4 Aug 2005 16:12
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Re: apropos of nothing

On Wed, 2005-08-03 at 08:30 -0400, Simon Perreault wrote:
> On Tuesday 02 August 2005 20:15, Modus Operandi wrote:
> >     Intuitively, I suppose that apt-get is installing a working binary,
> >     while CPAN is trying to build the Perl module from sources (and
> >     sometimes hanging up on some dependencies along the way.) But it
> >     would be nice to know for sure, instead of just guessing.
> 
> That's right. Installing from CPAN is akin to installing some random source 
> tarball. Just say no.
> 
> We in the RPM world are blessed with cpan2rpm, which makes keeping the 
> compiled-from-source stuff to a minimum a lot easier. Take that, Debian 
> hippies!

Ever heard of "dh-make-perl"?

Far, far better implementation than that cpan2rpm crap you call making
it easier.

The best part of this whole story, is that *IF* someone DOES decide to
upload a module or set of modules to the Debian archive, the package
made by dh-make-perl will be upgraded as well, providing it is newer in
its version... or even sub-version.

Now, what was that about Debian Hippies? If you don't use it and don't
understand it, please in all respects, don't resort to name calling...
you RPM-FACIST! And yes, I use rpm. I am currently still supporting many
systems that use rpm as the primary means for package
pseudo-management.
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Greg Folkert | 4 Aug 2005 16:03
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Re: apropos of nothing

On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 20:15 -0400, Modus Operandi wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
>     At risk of reinforcing your impression of me as a perennially
>     confused elitist-wannabee (well-warranted, although my non-technical
>     friends seem to think I'm some kind of whiz) I'd like to ask about
>     something that's been unclear to me lately: the mysterious
>     relationship between the CPAN versions of Perl modules and the
>     $DEBIAN_FLAVOR packages which also provide Perl module support.
[...]
>     That's why I'm glad I'm on this list, with a bunch of people who are
>     smarter than me.

If, you decide you must use CPAN.

Then: "apt-get install dh-make-perl"

Then: "Read The Fine Manpage" AND /usr/share/doc/dh-make-perl/READ*

That way, lotsa things get F1XX0RZD all at the same time.

Basically, CPANPLUS not worky, CPAN worky, if you plan on uploading the
resultant module to Debian through a mentor or someone that is willing
to put thier name on it, make sure you make it DSFG and DDP compliant.
--

-- 
greg, greg <at> gregfolkert.net

The technology that is 
Stronger, Better, Faster: Linux
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Rick Moen | 11 Aug 2005 22:49
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Re: apropos of nothing

Quoting Simon Perreault (nomis80 <at> nomis80.org):

> We in the RPM world are blessed with cpan2rpm, which makes keeping the 
> compiled-from-source stuff to a minimum a lot easier. Take that, Debian 
> hippies!

Welcome to the 1990s, Simon.  Please take your stock option paperwork
and move along.

--

-- 
Cheers,     Founding member of the Hyphenation Society, a grassroots-based, 
Rick Moen   not-for-profit, locally-owned-and-operated, cooperatively-managed,
rick <at> linuxmafia.com     modern-American-English-usage-improvement association.
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