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Jonathan Corbet | 1 Jan 2003 01:11
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Re: GUI/CLI mail client (was Re: What's some marketing buzzwords for what we do?)

> I'm looking for a mail client that does
> BOTH gui and cli - I would perfer to get to my mail via a remote X
> connection, but oftentimes, am only able to get a shell via ssh (say,
> over a dialup, or from a system that doesn't have X installed). Is there
> such a beast?

Being behind the times and all that, I've still found nothing that I like
better than the MH/mh-e combination.  mh-e in a modern emacs can be about
as graphical as you like; the one (big) hole is in MIME support.  But exmh
can fill that in if need be.  And when you're typing over that noisy modem
link from Papua New Guinea, the MH command line mode can get you through your
important messages in a hurry.

jon

Jonathan Corbet
Executive editor, LWN.net
corbet <at> lwn.net
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Alan DuBoff | 1 Jan 2003 03:40

Re: What's some marketing buzzwords for what we do?

On Tuesday 31 December 2002 13:26, Larry M. Augustin wrote:
> Interesting story!  Thanks Alan.  I hadn't seen that one.
> 
> I'm going to try and talk to Jeff Smith to learn more.  It fits with some
> other work I'm doing.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Larry

Let us know if you find anything interesting from him when you get in touch 
with him. For all we know they backed out and pony'd up to ms, let us know.

There was another interesting conversion with the State of Utah or the 
Government there, but I can't seem to find it online. It was a successful 
one, and was printed a few months back when the XP licensing was starting to 
cause panic. There have been other not so successful cases though, so it's 
not always bliss.

This is where a Linux consultant can benifit greatly and help make the 
conversion a success, IMO.

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Mister Bad | 1 Jan 2003 03:41
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Re: What's some marketing buzzwords for what we do?

>>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt <nick <at> zork.net> writes:

    NM> Good one, but you forgot to use the phrase "Deep
    NM> inside, where I am soft like a woman."

Oh. Crap.

I was kind of proud of the "Windows for Workgroups", though.

~Mr. Bad

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Eugen Leitl | 1 Jan 2003 09:38

Re: GUI/CLI mail client (was Re: What's some marketing buzzwords for what we do?)

On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Rick Moen wrote:

> Disclaimer:  You don't think I _use_ any of those things, I hope.  ;->
> So, my knowledge of them is second-hand.  My idea of proper mail access
> is to always leave an instance or two of mutt running on my SMTP host
> under a GNU screen session, reachable via ssh.

Does screen allow to reconnect to a running instance of a mutt in a ssh 
session? I.e., can I use it as a text version of a vnc session?

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Rick Moen | 1 Jan 2003 09:59
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Re: GUI/CLI mail client (was Re: What's some marketing buzzwords for what we do?)

Quoting Eugen Leitl (eugen <at> leitl.org):

> Does screen allow to reconnect to a running instance of a mutt in a ssh 
> session? I.e., can I use it as a text version of a vnc session?

If I understand the question, yes, that's what I do all the time.

I leave a screen session running under my UID all the time.  It in turn 
keeps mutt instances open.  When I connect via ssh to that machine, the
first thing I do is "screen -r" to reattach the screen process to my
local terminal.  That gives me immediate access to the various processes
I left running last time I ssh'd in, all still running the way I left
them.

When I'm done and intend to close my ssh connection, I do "screen -d" to
detach, then shut the ssh tunnel.

The biggest disadvantage is lack of support for detached operation.

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Eugen Leitl | 1 Jan 2003 10:02

Re: GUI/CLI mail client (was Re: What's some marketing buzzwords for what we do?)

On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Rick Moen wrote:

> If I understand the question, yes, that's what I do all the time.

Very good. I have bad need for it, as the ISP I'm forced to use is highly 
unreliable.

> The biggest disadvantage is lack of support for detached operation.

So if I get bumped offline then the session _will_ die, even with nohup?

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Aaron T Porter | 1 Jan 2003 10:10
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Re: GUI/CLI mail client (was Re: What's some marketing buzzwords for what we do?)

On Wed, Jan 01, 2003 at 10:02:44AM +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote:

> So if I get bumped offline then the session _will_ die, even with nohup?

	Not at all. Screen will keep going just fine. Just log back into
the server and do a screen -r. I prefer using -x to attach though, lets
you have the  same screen session attached from multiple shells.
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Rick Moen | 1 Jan 2003 10:14
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Re: GUI/CLI mail client (was Re: What's some marketing buzzwords for what we do?)

Quoting Eugen Leitl (eugen <at> leitl.org):

>> The biggest disadvantage is lack of support for detached operation.
> 
> So if I get bumped offline then the session _will_ die, even with nohup?

No, that's not what I meant.  In fact, the opposite is the case.
If/when your ssh session suddenly goes kaput, the screen process keeps
your other processes running without any interruption.  When you ssh 
back in and do "screen -r", you're exactly back where you were.  

In a minority of such cases, screen won't yet have noticed that you're
gone:

[rick <at> uncle-enzo]
~ $ screen -r
There is a screen on:
        8672.pts-0.uncle-enzo   (Attached)
There is no screen to be resumed.
[rick <at> uncle-enzo]

In that case, you detach it manually (screen -d), then reattach (screen -r).

What I mean by "lack of support for detached operation" is that it gives
you no access to your files (e.g., mail) except during ssh sessions.
There's no local copy that remains at your disposal while un-networked.

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Aaron Lehmann | 1 Jan 2003 15:01

Re: GUI/CLI mail client (was Re: What's some marketing buzzwords for what we do?)

On Wed, Jan 01, 2003 at 01:14:29AM -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> In that case, you detach it manually (screen -d), then reattach (screen -r).

Or just run screen -dr.
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Peter Clay | 1 Jan 2003 18:55
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Re: GUI/CLI mail client (was Re: What's some marketing buzzwords for what we do?)

On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Rick Moen wrote:

> I leave a screen session running under my UID all the time.  It in turn 
> keeps mutt instances open.  When I connect via ssh to that machine, the
> first thing I do is "screen -r" to reattach the screen process to my
> local terminal.  That gives me immediate access to the various processes
> I left running last time I ssh'd in, all still running the way I left
> them.

I have a bash function which may be useful to people who want to do this:

pine () {
        if ps x | grep [p]ine; then
                echo "You already have a pine running - reattaching"
                screen -d -r pine
                return 1;
        fi
        screen -S pine pine
}

so I just login and type 'pine', regardless of whether I detached or quit
pine the last time.

Pete
PS substitute free-mailer-of-choice for pine..
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