14 May 2013 22:17

### My cycle definitionof Schwartz set is incorrect.

```Sorry to bother you again, but I want to correct an error that I made,
in a definition that I posted:

I wanted to express the beatpath definition of the Schwartz set in a
simpler and more compelling or appealing way, and the cycle definition
(that I've posted here) seemed such a simplification.

But the cycle definition doesn't define the Schwartz set. A candidate
that doesn't have a defeat that isn't in a cycle isn't necessarily in
the Scwhartz set (as defined by the unbeaten set definition and the
beatpath definition].

Of the two definitions (unbeaten set and beatpath), the beatpath
definition desn't have much compellingness. For compellingness, I much
prefer the unbeaten set definition.

Let me state both definitions here:

Unbeaten set definition of the Schwartz set::

1. An unbeaten sets is a set of alternatives none of which are beaten
by anything outside the set.

2. An innermost unbeaten set is an unbeaten set that doesn't contain a
smaller unbeaten set.

3.The Schwartz set is the set of alternatives that are in innermost
unbeaten sets.

[end of unbeaten set definition of Schwartz set]
```

11 May 2013 21:50

### Re: Norman Petry and I (Ossipoff) recommended CSSD, but Schwartz Woodall is a better voting system for Debian

```Quoted below, I'd suggested holding a 2nd Up/Down ratification vote on
the winner of an election between several mutually-competting
proposals to amend the consititution, and requireing it to get 3 time
more Yes votes than No votes in that 2nd vote, the Yes/No ratification
vote.

It occurs to me that, instead of holding a 2nd vote, the Yes/No vote,
one could instead just look at the rankings from the Schwartz Woodall
election to find out if the winner is ranked over D by 3 times more
ballots than rank D over it.

So the only purpose of D in the ranking would be 1) For treating it
like any other option, to find out if D wins; and 2) For finding out,
after the winner is found, if that eventual winner of the Schwartz
Woodlall count beats D by 3 to 1.

Below is quoted what I said in my previous post:

Of course a similar procedure could be used with CSSD too. And it
might make chicken dilemma defection not quite as easy, becauses the
only defection problem would be the one that is inherent in CSSD. But
of course that inherent CSSD chicken dilemma problem would remain, if
CSSD is used.

I was speaking instead of using, with Schwartz Woodall,  a 3:1
V(x,D)/V(D,x) requirement--_to be applied after (and if) some x wins_
to determine whether that winner passes the 3:1 supermajority
requirement--because we were discussing how the supermajority
requirement could be applied while still retaining Schwartz Woodall's
freedom from chicken dilemma.
```

8 May 2013 16:35

### Correcion of a typo in my chicken dilemma example 1.

```I'm sorry--There was a typo in my chicken dilemma example 1. In the
"actual rankings" part, I accidentally wrote "3", when I meant "100"

Here is the correct example:

Example 1:

Sincere preferences:

99: A>B>>C
2: B>A>>C
100: C>>(A=B)

The A voters rank sincerely, and the B voters defect:

99: A>B
2: B
100: C

Michael Ossipoff

```
8 May 2013 16:28

### Norman Petry and I (Ossipoff) recommended CSSD, but Schwartz Woodall is a better voting system for Debian

```Hi--

My name is Michael Ossipoff. I and Norman Petry, some years ago,
recommended, to Debian, a voting system called Cloneproof Schwartz
Sequential Dropping (CSSD).. That voting system is also sometimes
referred to as "Beatpath", because of equivalent definition in terms
of beatpath strengths. And it's sometimes referred to as "Schulze",
because Markus Schulze was the first to propose both of the
abovementioned equivalent procedures.

At the time when we proposed CSSD here, we considered it the best. Now
I feel that, as regards freedom from strategy concerns, there are
better methods. I'm writing now because I feel that it's my
responsibility to tell about those better methods, because I was one
of those who advocated CSSD here.

First, let me say that CSSD has much good to say for it. As you
probably know, Condorcet, in the late 18th century, suggested that,
when there is no one candidate who pairwise-beats each of the other
candidates (such a candidate is now called a "Condorcet winner", or
"CW"), and there is, instead, a top-cycle, then the winner should be
the candidate whose greatest pairwise defeat is the least. That could
be expressed in terms of successively dropping the weakest defeats
till someone is unbeaten.

CSSD does what Condorcet said to do, except that it only drops defeats
among the current Schwartz set., the most win-deserving set of
candidates.

If ranking is assumed to be sincere, and strategy incentives and
```

14 Apr 2013 02:00

### Results for Debian Project Leader 2013 Election

```Greetings,

This message is an automated, unofficial publication of vote results.
Official results shall follow, sent in by the vote taker, namely
Debian Project Secretary

This email is just a convenience for the impatient.
I remain, gentle folks,

Devotee (on behalf of Debian Project Secretary)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Starting results calculation at Sun Apr 14 00:00:03 2013

Option 1 "Gergely Nagy"
Option 2 "Moray Allan"
Option 3 "Lucas Nussbaum"
Option 4 "None Of The Above"

In the following table, tally[row x][col y] represents the votes that
option x received over option y.

Option
1     2     3     4
===   ===   ===   ===
Option 1           88    62   319
Option 2    252         141   355
Option 3    279   210         353
```

13 Apr 2013 12:52

i tryed to vote but failed. is the vote only for Debian project
members?

cheers
gnugr
-- Key fingerprint = 9A28 CC83 33AB 04FC 5EC5 AA07 CD4C 5677 D6AC 714A
13 Apr 2013 10:29

### DPL 2013: Lats call for votes

```
Hi,

The voting period for the Debian Project Leader election 2012 is
almost over.  You still have about 15 hours from the time of this
writing.

Voting period starts      00:00:00 UTC on Sunday,   March 31st, 2013
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC on Saturday, April 13th, 2013

This vote is being conducted as required by the Debian Constitution.
You may see the constitution at http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution.
For voting questions or problems contact secretary <at> debian.org.

The details of the candidate platform can be found at:
http://www.debian.org/vote/2013/platforms/

Also, note that you can get a fresh ballot any time before the end of
the vote by sending a mail to
ballot <at> vote.debian.org

HOW TO VOTE

First, read the full text of the platform.

To cast a vote, it is necessary to send this ballot filled out to a
dedicated e-mail address, in a signed message, as described below.
The dedicated email address this ballot should be sent to is:

The form you need to fill out is contained at the bottom of this
message, marked with two lines containing the characters
'-=-=-=-=-=-'. Do not erase anything between those lines, and do not
change the choice names.

There are 4 choices in the form, which you may rank with numbers between
1 and 4. In the brackets next to your preferred choice, place a 1.
Place a 2 in the brackets next to your next choice. Continue until you
reach your last choice.  Do not enter a number smaller than 1 or larger
than 4.

You may skip numbers, leave some choices unranked, and rank options
equally.  Unranked choices are considered equally the least desired
choices, and ranked below all ranked choices.

To vote "no, no matter what", rank "None Of The Above" as more desirable
than the unacceptable choices, or you may rank the "None Of The Above"
choice and leave choices you consider unacceptable blank.  (Note: if the
"None Of The Above" choice is unranked, then it is equal to all other
unranked choices, if any -- no special consideration is given to the
"None Of The Above" choice by the voting software).

Finally, mail the filled out ballot to: leader2013 <at> vote.debian.org.

Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that

NOTE: The vote must be GPG signed (or PGP signed) with your key that is
in the Debian keyring.  You may, if you wish, choose to send a signed,
encrypted ballot: use the vote key appended below for encryption.

The voting software (Devotee) accepts mail that either contains only an
unmangled OpenPGP message (RFC 2440 compliant), or a PGP/MIME mail
(RFC 3156 compliant).  To avoid problems I suggest you use PGP/MIME.

- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
8367b943-96ac-4530-afbd-529da5fc4fd5
[   ] Choice 1: Gergely Nagy
[   ] Choice 2: Moray Allan
[   ] Choice 3: Lucas Nussbaum
[   ] Choice 4: None Of The Above
- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The responses to a valid vote shall be signed by the vote key created
for this vote. The public key for the vote, signed by the Project
secretary, is appended below.

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```
6 Apr 2013 22:41

### DPL 2013: Second call for votes

```
Hi,

This is the second call for votes for the Debian Project Leader
Elections 2013.  The timeline is:

Voting period starts      00:00:00 UTC on Sunday,   March 31st, 2013
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC on Saturday, April 13th, 2013

This vote is being conducted as required by the Debian Constitution.
You may see the constitution at http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution.
For voting questions or problems contact secretary <at> debian.org.

The details of the candidate platform can be found at:
http://www.debian.org/vote/2013/platforms/

Also, note that you can get a fresh ballot any time before the end of
the vote by sending a mail to
ballot <at> vote.debian.org

HOW TO VOTE

First, read the full text of the platform.

To cast a vote, it is necessary to send this ballot filled out to a
dedicated e-mail address, in a signed message, as described below.
The dedicated email address this ballot should be sent to is:

The form you need to fill out is contained at the bottom of this
message, marked with two lines containing the characters
'-=-=-=-=-=-'. Do not erase anything between those lines, and do not
change the choice names.

There are 4 choices in the form, which you may rank with numbers between
1 and 4. In the brackets next to your preferred choice, place a 1.
Place a 2 in the brackets next to your next choice. Continue until you
reach your last choice.  Do not enter a number smaller than 1 or larger
than 4.

You may skip numbers, leave some choices unranked, and rank options
equally.  Unranked choices are considered equally the least desired
choices, and ranked below all ranked choices.

To vote "no, no matter what", rank "None Of The Above" as more desirable
than the unacceptable choices, or you may rank the "None Of The Above"
choice and leave choices you consider unacceptable blank.  (Note: if the
"None Of The Above" choice is unranked, then it is equal to all other
unranked choices, if any -- no special consideration is given to the
"None Of The Above" choice by the voting software).

Finally, mail the filled out ballot to: leader2013 <at> vote.debian.org.

Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that

NOTE: The vote must be GPG signed (or PGP signed) with your key that is
in the Debian keyring.  You may, if you wish, choose to send a signed,
encrypted ballot: use the vote key appended below for encryption.

The voting software (Devotee) accepts mail that either contains only an
unmangled OpenPGP message (RFC 2440 compliant), or a PGP/MIME mail
(RFC 3156 compliant).  To avoid problems I suggest you use PGP/MIME.

- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
8367b943-96ac-4530-afbd-529da5fc4fd5
[   ] Choice 1: Gergely Nagy
[   ] Choice 2: Moray Allan
[   ] Choice 3: Lucas Nussbaum
[   ] Choice 4: None Of The Above
- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The responses to a valid vote shall be signed by the vote key created
for this vote. The public key for the vote, signed by the Project
secretary, is appended below.

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31 Mar 2013 00:41

```Hi,

This is the first call for votes for the Debian Project Leader
Elections 2013.

Voting period starts      00:00:00 UTC on Sunday,   March 31st, 2013
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC on Saturday, April 13th, 2013

This vote is being conducted as required by the Debian Constitution.
You may see the constitution at http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution.
For voting questions or problems contact secretary <at> debian.org.

The details of the candidate platform can be found at:
http://www.debian.org/vote/2013/platforms/

Also, note that you can get a fresh ballot any time before the end of
the vote by sending a mail to
ballot <at> vote.debian.org

HOW TO VOTE

First, read the full text of the platform.

To cast a vote, it is necessary to send this ballot filled out to a
dedicated e-mail address, in a signed message, as described below.
The dedicated email address this ballot should be sent to is:

The form you need to fill out is contained at the bottom of this
message, marked with two lines containing the characters
'-=-=-=-=-=-'. Do not erase anything between those lines, and do not
change the choice names.

There are 4 choices in the form, which you may rank with numbers between
1 and 4. In the brackets next to your preferred choice, place a 1.
Place a 2 in the brackets next to your next choice. Continue until you
reach your last choice.  Do not enter a number smaller than 1 or larger
than 4.

You may skip numbers, leave some choices unranked, and rank options
equally.  Unranked choices are considered equally the least desired
choices, and ranked below all ranked choices.

To vote "no, no matter what", rank "None Of The Above" as more desirable
than the unacceptable choices, or you may rank the "None Of The Above"
choice and leave choices you consider unacceptable blank.  (Note: if the
"None Of The Above" choice is unranked, then it is equal to all other
unranked choices, if any -- no special consideration is given to the
"None Of The Above" choice by the voting software).

Finally, mail the filled out ballot to: leader2013 <at> vote.debian.org.

Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that

NOTE: The vote must be GPG signed (or PGP signed) with your key that is
in the Debian keyring.  You may, if you wish, choose to send a signed,
encrypted ballot: use the vote key appended below for encryption.

The voting software (Devotee) accepts mail that either contains only an
unmangled OpenPGP message (RFC 2440 compliant), or a PGP/MIME mail
(RFC 3156 compliant).  To avoid problems I suggest you use PGP/MIME.

- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
8367b943-96ac-4530-afbd-529da5fc4fd5
[   ] Choice 1: Gergely Nagy
[   ] Choice 2: Moray Allan
[   ] Choice 3: Lucas Nussbaum
[   ] Choice 4: None Of The Above
- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The responses to a valid vote shall be signed by the vote key created
for this vote. The public key for the vote, signed by the Project
secretary, is appended below.

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```
25 Mar 2013 17:22

### [all candidates] Removing or limiting DD rights?

```Hi guys,

First of all, thanks to all three of you standing in the DPL election
this year. I know it's a daunting task!

contributors, which is a perennial question in Debian. I personally
don't think we're ever likely to "solve" that issue permanently, but
it's clearly something that's always going to be very important for
us. I have a related question, but more on the opposite end of the
spectrum I suppose:

Are we strict enough with our existing contributors? When we're trying
to work together as best we can to make the Universal Operating System
happen, what could/should we do with contributors who hinder our work?
Sometimes that hindrance is inadvertent, sometimes it seems
deliberate. At other times it looks like we have developers who are
just not paying attention to what they're doing or who just don't care
about the goals of the project. Occasionally we see direct action to
censure or even expel DDs, but these are only ever in the most blatant
of cases. By the time that happens, large amounts of damage may be
done to the project: delayed releases, lost users, loss of motivation
for other contributors.

I'm wondering: is this something that you think is a real problem, and
if so what do you think we could do about it?

--

--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve <at> einval.com
Support the Campaign for Audiovisual Free Expression: http://www.eff.org/cafe/

```
25 Mar 2013 16:55

### [all candidates] delegation

```Hi all,

One of the key role of the DPL is to delegate.

What are your intention in this regard? Do you think that the current
teams and roles are well filled? Or would you like to change some of the
people currently holding a position? Why (not) changing anything?

Cheers,

Thomas

P.S: I have read the history, and didn't find anyone asking this. If I
missed it, then sorry...

```

Gmane