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Raphael Hertzog | 6 Oct 2011 08:33
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Problem with the <at> debian account on identi.ca

[ CCing the public list of the team usually animating the  <at> debian
  account ]

Hello Evan & Jordan,

since the migration to statusnet 1.0, the  <at> debian account on identi.ca
is unusable. When we login on the web interface, there's no input field
to send status updates.

When we try to send updates over the API, we get back an "HTTP Error 400:
Bad request" (we're using feed2omb to autopost entries from some RSS feeds).

The  <at> debian account is the official account of the Debian project, it has
many followers and we would really like to get this solved (and I get a
cron failure mail every 30 minutes due to the RSS->identi.ca gateway that
is failing :), cf above).

I already mailed admin <at> status.net but nobody answered so I hope that
using direct email will have better result.

Thank you in advance for looking into it!
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Writer/Consultant ◈ Debian Developer

Pre-order a copy of The Debian Administrator's Handbook and
help liberate it: http://debian-handbook.info/go/ulule-rh/

--

-- 
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David Prévot | 7 Oct 2011 00:24
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Fund raising advertisement on the DPN (Was: [Publicity-commits] r2683 - /dpn/en/current/index.wml)


Hi,

Le 06/10/2011 17:47, eof-guest <at> users.alioth.debian.org a écrit :

> 'The Debian Administrator's Handbook' [done] (thanks buxy for the draft)
[…]
> +then publish it under a free license. To be able to spend the 6 months of
> +work required to complete this project, they are pre-selling the book
> +as part of a fundraising campaign. You can <a
> +href="http://debian-handbook.info/go/ulule-debian/">pledge some money and

It's the second time [1] such an advertisement reaches the DPN, and I
don't find it suitable at all. I think it was a mistake the first time,
and it would be a shame to consider the first error as a precedent. For
the same reason we don't do sponsorship link in the official website
main page, I believe we should not relay such campaign in the official DPN.

	1: http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2010/09/#free
	2: http://lists.debian.org/20110607065423.GB14116 <at> upsilon.cc

Regards

David
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Alexander Reshetov | 7 Oct 2011 07:04
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Re: Fund raising advertisement on the DPN

On Thu, Oct 06, 2011 at 06:24:41PM -0400, David Prévot wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Le 06/10/2011 17:47, eof-guest <at> users.alioth.debian.org a écrit :
> 
> > 'The Debian Administrator's Handbook' [done] (thanks buxy for the draft)
> […]
> > +then publish it under a free license. To be able to spend the 6 months of
> > +work required to complete this project, they are pre-selling the book
> > +as part of a fundraising campaign. You can <a
> > +href="http://debian-handbook.info/go/ulule-debian/">pledge some money and
> 
> It's the second time [1] such an advertisement reaches the DPN, and I
> don't find it suitable at all. I think it was a mistake the first time,
> and it would be a shame to consider the first error as a precedent. For
> the same reason we don't do sponsorship link in the official website
> main page, I believe we should not relay such campaign in the official DPN.
> 
> 	1: http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2010/09/#free
> 	2: http://lists.debian.org/20110607065423.GB14116 <at> upsilon.cc

Hello,

David, you are right, but one moment isn't clear enough for me. Do you think
that this part should be totally removed, or it should be just reworded? Would
it be fine to leave those link but write something like "to get more
information about this book you can get at <link>" instead of current text
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Raphael Hertzog | 7 Oct 2011 08:30
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Re: Fund raising advertisement on the DPN (Was: [Publicity-commits] r2683 - /dpn/en/current/index.wml)

Hi,

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011, David Prévot wrote:
> It's the second time [1] such an advertisement reaches the DPN, and I
> don't find it suitable at all. I think it was a mistake the first time,
> and it would be a shame to consider the first error as a precedent. For
> the same reason we don't do sponsorship link in the official website
> main page, I believe we should not relay such campaign in the official DPN.

I don't agree with you. It all depends on the goal of the project. Any
Debian-related project which has a goal to improve Debian (remember this
is about getting a DFSG-free Debian book) deserve a mention.

The fact that there is money involved should not be a sufficient reason
to refuse to cover it.

I don't really know what you put under "sponsorship link" but we have
sponsorhip links at various places, and we even used to have some
on the main web page at the time where the web mirrors were hosted
by third parties.

The criteria should be the same "would this help us towards our
goals?". And I think this project is clearly in the "yes" side.

Here it's not about the main page of the website, it's about the DPN
and this is something which has a limited interest in the time so it seems
to be a perfect match for it.

Cheers,
--

--
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Jeremiah Foster | 7 Oct 2011 10:16
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Re: Fund raising advertisement on the DPN (Was: [Publicity-commits] r2683 - /dpn/en/current/index.wml)

On Oct 7, 2011, at 08:30, Raphael Hertzog wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011, David Prévot wrote:
>> It's the second time [1] such an advertisement reaches the DPN, and I
>> don't find it suitable at all. I think it was a mistake the first time,
>> and it would be a shame to consider the first error as a precedent. For
>> the same reason we don't do sponsorship link in the official website
>> main page, I believe we should not relay such campaign in the official DPN.
> 
> I don't agree with you. It all depends on the goal of the project. Any
> Debian-related project which has a goal to improve Debian (remember this
> is about getting a DFSG-free Debian book) deserve a mention.

I don't agree either. This is not an advertisement, this is notice of a book by one of the maintainers of dpkg. 
> 
> The fact that there is money involved should not be a sufficient reason
> to refuse to cover it.

I agree, it doesn't make sense.
> 
> I don't really know what you put under "sponsorship link" but we have
> sponsorhip links at various places, and we even used to have some
> on the main web page at the time where the web mirrors were hosted
> by third parties.

> The criteria should be the same "would this help us towards our
> goals?". And I think this project is clearly in the "yes" side.
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Francesca Ciceri | 7 Oct 2011 13:19
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Re: Fund raising advertisement on the DPN (Was: [Publicity-commits] r2683 - /dpn/en/current/index.wml)

Hi,

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011, David Prévot wrote:
> It's the second time [1] such an advertisement reaches the DPN, and I
> don't find it suitable at all. I think it was a mistake the first time,
> and it would be a shame to consider the first error as a precedent. For
> the same reason we don't do sponsorship link in the official website
> main page, I believe we should not relay such campaign in the official DPN.

With my Publicity & Press hat on, I completely agree with David.

On Fri, Oct 07, 2011 at 08:30:11AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:

> 
> I don't agree with you. It all depends on the goal of the project. Any
> Debian-related project which has a goal to improve Debian (remember this
> is about getting a DFSG-free Debian book) deserve a mention.

Yes, sure it deserve a mention, but maybe is better to mention it when it
will be published and not to pre-sell copies, isn't it?
Our intent is to inform: and sure we will inform people about another
interesting and - I bet - useful piece of documentation when it will be
available. But DPN is not intended to advertise commercial project, as
the publication of your book seems to be.

> The fact that there is money involved should not be a sufficient reason
> to refuse to cover it.
> 
> I don't really know what you put under "sponsorship link" but we have
> sponsorhip links at various places, and we even used to have some
(Continue reading)

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Michelle Konzack | 7 Oct 2011 13:56

Re: Fund raising advertisement on the DPN (Was: [Publicity-commits] r2683 - /dpn/en/current/index.wml)

Hello Jeremiah Foster,

Am 2011-10-07 10:16:45, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
> On Oct 7, 2011, at 08:30, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > On Thu, 06 Oct 2011, David Prévot wrote:
> >> It's the second time [1] such an advertisement reaches the DPN, and I
> >> don't find it suitable at all. I think it was a mistake the first time,
> >> and it would be a shame to consider the first error as a precedent. For
> >> the same reason we don't do sponsorship link in the official website
> >> main page, I believe we should not relay such campaign in the official DPN.
> > 
> > I don't agree with you. It all depends on the goal of the project. Any
> > Debian-related project which has a goal to improve Debian (remember this
> > is about getting a DFSG-free Debian book) deserve a mention.
> 
> I don't agree either. This is not an advertisement, this is notice of
> a book by one of the maintainers of dpkg. 

1+

For my understanding, I find this kind of advertising very suitable.

> Any reasonable person would agree that Debian needs more high quality
> documentation in as many languages as possible. This project is
> clearly on the path to achieving some of those goals.

Right, but if I read the Website Ulule, the disavantage is, the ORIGINAL
VERSION was written in FRENCH, which makes it  very  hard  to  translate
even if I understand, speake and write MANY languages.
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Jeremiah Foster | 7 Oct 2011 14:02
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Re: Fund raising advertisement on the DPN (Was: [Publicity-commits] r2683 - /dpn/en/current/index.wml)


On Oct 7, 2011, at 13:19, Francesca Ciceri wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011, David Prévot wrote:
>> It's the second time [1] such an advertisement reaches the DPN, and I
>> don't find it suitable at all. I think it was a mistake the first time,
>> and it would be a shame to consider the first error as a precedent. For
>> the same reason we don't do sponsorship link in the official website
>> main page, I believe we should not relay such campaign in the official DPN.
> 
> With my Publicity & Press hat on, I completely agree with David.

There are no Publicity and Press hats. I know, I asked for one at DebConf 10 when I gave the publicity talk.
There were none. </facetiousness>

> 
> On Fri, Oct 07, 2011 at 08:30:11AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I don't agree with you. It all depends on the goal of the project. Any
>> Debian-related project which has a goal to improve Debian (remember this
>> is about getting a DFSG-free Debian book) deserve a mention.
> 
> Yes, sure it deserve a mention, but maybe is better to mention it when it
> will be published and not to pre-sell copies, isn't it?

What is the distinction here between selling something now and selling it later? That distinction you're
trying to make is irrelevant. It costs money to publish a book and such a specialized book rarely makes a
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Raphael Hertzog | 7 Oct 2011 14:38
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Re: Fund raising advertisement on the DPN (Was: [Publicity-commits] r2683 - /dpn/en/current/index.wml)

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011, Jeremiah Foster wrote:
> I don't agree either. This is not an advertisement, this is notice of a
> book by one of the maintainers of dpkg. 

I'm glad that you appreciate the work I do on dpkg but it's irrelevant
here.

That said the fact that this is a Debian-related project launched by
two Debian developers can effectively have its importance when
appreciating whether a project deserve to be mentionned.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer

Pre-order a copy of the Debian Administrator's Handbook and help
liberate it: http://debian-handbook.info/go/ulule-rh/

--

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Raphael Hertzog | 7 Oct 2011 15:02
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Re: Fund raising advertisement on the DPN (Was: [Publicity-commits] r2683 - /dpn/en/current/index.wml)

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
> With my Publicity & Press hat on, I completely agree with David.

I also have a publicity hat. And I know at least one other person with a
press hat who said it would be ok to announce it on the DPN...

Can we just avoid this kind of assertion? It doesn't bring much to the
discussion.

> Yes, sure it deserve a mention, but maybe is better to mention it when it
> will be published and not to pre-sell copies, isn't it?

But if the fundraising is not successful, there will be nothing to
mention. So we will have lost an opportunity to have a DFSG-free book.

What is best?

> Our intent is to inform: and sure we will inform people about another
> interesting and - I bet - useful piece of documentation when it will be
> available. But DPN is not intended to advertise commercial project, as
> the publication of your book seems to be.

As I said it really depends on the nature and the goal of the commercial
project.

Debian does not live on an island, everybody has to earn some money one
way or another. I don't agree that the mere commercial nature of something
means we should not speak about it.

If Dell started to sell computers with Debian pre-installed, would you
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