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Tapio Lehtonen | 1 Aug 2009 03:26
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Re: Debian 5.0.1

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:09:33AM -0500, gene3333 wrote:
> Hi:
> 
> I will make this short and to the point.  I like Debian 5.0.1.
> It does not have any wireless configuration capability
> only network card recognition.  Does Debian plan to incorporate
> wireless USB Adapter configuration in future releases?
> 
> Thank you.  

You should ask this question on debian-user mailing list. The
debian-project list is for "Discussion about non-technical topics
related to the Debian Project.".

When resending Your question to the appropriate list, be more specific
in stating what does not work. Wireless 802.11b+g adapters do work and
can be configured, i.e. user specifies SSID, password etc. and gets
connected to the network. This same applies to USB 802.11b+g adapters
as far as I can see, provided there is a driver for that particular
USB adapter.

--

-- 
Tapio Lehtonen
tapio.lehtonen <at> iki.fi
http://www.iki.fi/tapio.lehtonen
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Steve Langasek | 1 Aug 2009 08:06
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Re: Debian decides to adopt time-based release freezes

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 04:31:56PM +0000, Philipp Kern wrote:
> On 2009-07-30, Steve Langasek <vorlon <at> debian.org> wrote:
> > You seem to have been operating under a misconception that the *majority* of
> > packages in Ubuntu have been touched wrt Debian.  They have not - the vast
> > majority of packages in Ubuntu are unmodified Debian packages, as shown by
> > the graphs on the bottom of <https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html> and
> ><https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html> - which is for the best given the
> > relative number of developers working on each project.

> I don't think it holds true for main, though.  Unless I'm misreading the
> graphs.  Of course it applies to universe where Ubuntu is heavily relying
> on Debian to do the work.

Well, most of the 'local' packages on the graph for main are actually
language packs, so I don't think it makes much sense to count those anyway.

--

-- 
Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                    http://www.debian.org/
slangasek <at> ubuntu.com                                     vorlon <at> debian.org
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Holger Levsen | 1 Aug 2009 11:03

Re: Debian redesign

Hi,

On Donnerstag, 30. Juli 2009, Frans Pop wrote:
> > One that will make a statement that women in Debian should always wear
> > deep cleavages, and men in Debian have sex with their laptops.
> > Nice...
> IMHO you're seriously overreacting here. 

IMO you are.

> The posters as I see them do 
> not "make the statements" that you read into them, that is entirely your
> interpretation of them.

You are aware that this can be said exactly about what you see in them, are 
you?

Marga also wrote the following, which I assume you consider invalid, as it 
doesnt follow your logic. Anyway, it is reality:

> > I'm sorry, but I really can't accept this.  It's not that "some people 
> > might get offended", it's that some people ALREADY feel uncomfortable
> > about the message being sent."  

And this is with a low number of people having seen them. 

And yes, those pics also made me role my eyes and say no way. And certainly 
not because I dont like (semi)naked people or whatever - but because I dont 
like stereotypes, and especially not to represent an universal OS.
(Continue reading)

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Frans Pop | 1 Aug 2009 11:34
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Re: Debian redesign

On Saturday 01 August 2009, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Donnerstag, 30. Juli 2009, Frans Pop wrote:
> > > One that will make a statement that women in Debian should always
> > > wear deep cleavages, and men in Debian have sex with their laptops.
> > > Nice...
> >
> > IMHO you're seriously overreacting here.
>
> IMO you are.

I disagree. There is IMO nothing in those posters that says that women 
cannot be involved in Debian unless they show deep cleavages. And the
"sex with laptops" thing is even more farfetched.
*That* is the overreaction.

> And yes, those pics also made me role my eyes and say no way. And

s/role/roll/

> certainly not because I dont like (semi)naked people or whatever - but
> because I dont like stereotypes, and especially not to represent an
> universal OS.

I can agree to some point with the stereotyping, but that does not change 
the fact that *nothing* in the posters tells people they should conform 
to them.

The problem is: stereotyping is a rather effective marketing mechanism...
(Continue reading)

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Werner Baumann | 1 Aug 2009 11:41
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Re: Debian redesign

Yes, I did not notice "all of it free." in the original. But I did not
because it is in the midst of a chapter, not at the end, and it is not
emphasized. This small changes change the meaning.

> pixelgirl explained she only took the first part of the text.
> 
The full text would have ruined the layout. It's the wrong way round:
Set up a fine layout and find a matching content. The Debian web site
is built the other way round.

Another example:
Why replace "Getting Debian" with "download". "Getting Debian" links to
a small tutorial about the various ways to - well - get Debian. Why name
it "download"? Because all the others have a download area? To catch
"generation download"?

My point is this:
The mission of the modern advertising industry is to fool users. All
the tools are are designed for this goal. While it seems a nice idea to
turn these tools around and use them for good, be aware of the danger:
the spirit of advertising may creep in unnoticed and finally turn
around the content.

Except for getting the country wrong this old limerick sums it up
pretty well (with my apologies to the tigers; they are not evil).

A smiling young lady from Niger
once went for a ride on a tiger.
When they came back from the ride,
was the lady inside
(Continue reading)

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Steve Langasek | 1 Aug 2009 12:22
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Re: Debian redesign

On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 11:41:29AM +0200, Werner Baumann wrote:
> Another example:
> Why replace "Getting Debian" with "download". "Getting Debian" links to
> a small tutorial about the various ways to - well - get Debian. Why name
> it "download"? Because all the others have a download area? To catch
> "generation download"?

Because the current website is *all but impossible to navigate*, lacking
many of the signposts that users rely on to find their way.  On the current
Debian website, we have the following sidebar:

  Getting Debian
    CD vendors
    CD ISO images
    Network install
    Pre-installed

None of these includes the key word "download".  We should not make users
think this hard in order to figure out how to download Debian - that's
entirely the wrong kind of elitism!

> My point is this:
> The mission of the modern advertising industry is to fool users. All
> the tools are are designed for this goal. While it seems a nice idea to
> turn these tools around and use them for good, be aware of the danger:
> the spirit of advertising may creep in unnoticed and finally turn
> around the content.

Your hang-ups regarding advertising are uninteresting and should not be
allowed to get in the way of Debian having a well-designed and useful
(Continue reading)

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Thomas Koch | 1 Aug 2009 16:04
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Please look at mentors.debian.net

Every organisation can only survive (or grow) with a constant stream of fresh 
members.
So please dear Debian Developers: Go to http://mentors.debian.net! There are 
people willing to get involved in Debian. But some of them might be in danger 
to get frustrated due to lack of response.

Thomas Koch, http://www.koch.ro
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Werner Baumann | 1 Aug 2009 17:49
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Re: Debian redesign

At Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:22:29 +0200, Steve Langasek wrote:
> Because the current website is *all but impossible to navigate*,
> lacking many of the signposts that users rely on to find their way.
> On the current Debian website, we have the following sidebar:
> 
>   Getting Debian
>     CD vendors
>     CD ISO images
>     Network install
>     Pre-installed
> 
> None of these includes the key word "download".  We should not make
> users think this hard in order to figure out how to download Debian -
> that's entirely the wrong kind of elitism!

Replacing "Getting Debian" with "download" means to drop "CD vendors"
and "Pre-installed". Where have they gone? Will have have to click
"download" to be informed about vendors of Debian CDs? The current
menu entry reflects the fact that there are various ways to get Debian.
These many ways can be confusing, but you sure don't want to drop any of
these. A better tutorial text behind "Getting Debian" would be an
improvement, though.

I won't agree that the Debian web site is "*all but impossible to
navigate*" (after all it is better than many comercial sites), but I
agree that many parts of it could do with a better structure. But this
is where to start, design must follow.

"Getting Debian" is "elitism" because it lacks the "signposts" and "key
words"? You must be kidding. What kind of hard thinking is required to
(Continue reading)

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Andrei Popescu | 1 Aug 2009 18:11
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Re: Debian redesign

On Sat,01.Aug.09, 12:22:29, Steve Langasek wrote:

> Because the current website is *all but impossible to navigate*, lacking
> many of the signposts that users rely on to find their way.  On the current
> Debian website, we have the following sidebar:
> 
>   Getting Debian
>     CD vendors
>     CD ISO images
>     Network install
>     Pre-installed
> 
> None of these includes the key word "download".  We should not make users
> think this hard in order to figure out how to download Debian - that's
> entirely the wrong kind of elitism!

How about this:

Getting Debian
  Download images
  Network install
  Pre-installed
  CD vedors

?

Regards,
Andrei
--

-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Continue reading)

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*** pxlgirl *** | 1 Aug 2009 18:25

(unknown)

Hello all,

I have read through all your comments, and it appeared that there's a  
big misunderstanding here concerning the illustrations. Since some of  
you didn't attend my talk, I'll clarify a few things now:

1. Logo

The current swirl has many details that make it hard to print on  
smaller media and even vectors would not solve the problem. The  
current font is non-free and would rather fit advertise a box of  
cigarettes than a software project.

The swirl-i-dot for the new logo was inspired by the Genie-Lamp, with  
a simplified swirl to keep the recognition factor. Since a swirl is  
quite common in logos, I had to put it in a context with the font, so  
that it is seen as a whole. The font was chosen to point out a  
solidness, stability and timelessness to the project. Please note,  
that the swirl is only fixed to the word "debian", its position can  
be changed with words like "debconf" easily.

2. Web site

My slides just show a fictional sample of the layout. The content is  
a different chapter, which needs to be discussed in order to  
usability issues. amount of texts etc... I'll be working with Kalle  
on that one.

3. Illustrations
(Continue reading)

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Gmane