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Marco d'Itri | 1 May 2006 01:24
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Re: irc.debian.org

astronut <at> dlgeek.net wrote:

>>> I agree with Steve. While I agree that freenode has many flaws (the
>>> biggest being NOIDPRIVMSG), I find that while I am in Debian channels on
>> Exactly, why is an optional feature such a big flaw?
>Because it's the default and practically no one changes it. This is a
Maybe because actually it's not such a big deal? :-)

>big problem, because on a network that offers so many support channels,
>you have a lot of users who are on only to get a question answered (Foo
>isn't working, what am I doing wrong?). These users have no desire, nor
>real reason to register a nick. Also, there are lots of times I have
They do not need to. If you want to receive their privated messages then
*you* can disable NOIDPRIVMSG and they will not even know about it.

>been disconnected, and not noticed I wasn't ID'd. I have sent people
>messages, and only hours later realized that they weren't received
>because I wasn't re-ID'd.
Can I suggest you use one of the autoidentification scripts?

>You may also want to ask some of the DD's who refuse to use freenode
>anymore. Some of them have very detailed gripes that might be able to be
>addressed.
Yes, some of them are also former staff members or server sponsors...

--

-- 
ciao,
Marco
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Paul Johnson | 1 May 2006 01:29
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Re: irc.debian.org

On Sunday 30 April 2006 13:46, Frans Pop wrote:
> On Sunday 30 April 2006 22:32, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > Why not move it to Jabber?  More people use and know what Jabber is
> > these days than IRC.
>
> Just to prove you wrong: what the hell is Jabber?

Jabber is an open IM system that IETF is standardizing instant messaging on.  
jabber.org, jabber.ru, talk.google.com and ursine.ca are well-known Jabber 
servers.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabber for more information.

--

-- 
Paul Johnson
Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): baloo <at> ursine.ca
Jabber: Because it's time to move forward  http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber
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Paul Johnson | 1 May 2006 01:21
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Re: irc.debian.org

On Sunday 30 April 2006 14:05, Florian Weimer wrote:
> * Paul Johnson:
> > Why not move it to Jabber?  More people use and know what Jabber is
> > these days than IRC.
>
> Really?  jabber.debian.net does not seem to accept new users.

I don't know about jabber.debian.net's registration process, however, there is 
a multiuser chat on Jabber at debian <at> conference.jabber.ru

--

-- 
Paul Johnson
Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): baloo <at> ursine.ca
Jabber: Because it's time to move forward  http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber
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Paul Johnson | 1 May 2006 01:33
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Re: irc.debian.org

On Sunday 30 April 2006 15:51, Michael Banck wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 07:25:50PM -0300, Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw) 
wrote:
> > On 04/30/2006 05:46 PM, Frans Pop wrote:
> > > Just to prove you wrong: what the hell is Jabber?
> >
> > 	It is an Instant Messaging Client.
>
> It is not IRC though, so this point is moot.  This thread is about IRC,
> let's not get into discussions about instant messaging systems in
> general.

On the other hand, more users in general, and certainly new users to Debian, 
are more likely to know about Jabber than IRC thanks to Google Talk.

--

-- 
Paul Johnson
Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): baloo <at> ursine.ca
Jabber: Because it's time to move forward  http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber
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Benjamin Seidenberg | 1 May 2006 01:39

Re: irc.debian.org

Marco d'Itri wrote:
> astronut <at> dlgeek.net wrote:
>
>   
>>>> I agree with Steve. While I agree that freenode has many flaws (the
>>>> biggest being NOIDPRIVMSG), I find that while I am in Debian channels on
>>>>         
>>> Exactly, why is an optional feature such a big flaw?
>>>       
>> Because it's the default and practically no one changes it. This is a
>>     
> Maybe because actually it's not such a big deal? :-)
>
>   
>> big problem, because on a network that offers so many support channels,
>> you have a lot of users who are on only to get a question answered (Foo
>> isn't working, what am I doing wrong?). These users have no desire, nor
>> real reason to register a nick. Also, there are lots of times I have
>>     
> They do not need to. If you want to receive their privated messages then
> *you* can disable NOIDPRIVMSG and they will not even know about it.
>
>   
Yet it's the default, and many don't even realize they can change this
setting. Also, freenode strongly recommends that channels only allow
comments from registered users.
>> been disconnected, and not noticed I wasn't ID'd. I have sent people
>> messages, and only hours later realized that they weren't received
>> because I wasn't re-ID'd.
>>
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Christian Perrier | 1 May 2006 10:10
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About terminology for stable/testing/unstable

A recent discussion popped up in the French l10n mailing list
(http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-french/2006/04/msg00539.html, in
French) about the terminology to use for writing documentation and
making reference to stable/testing/unstable in various parts of our
documentation/web site and even packages (D-I for instance).

The discussion is still not finished to decide what term we should use
in our translations. We currently consistently use "distribution"
which has the same meaning than the English word.

However, when looking at various original documentation we have in the
project about this, it appears that some more consistency could be
achieved. "distribution" is sometimes used (as in
http://www.debian.org/releases/) but so is "suite" (for instance in
most code) and sometimes "version"

The most commonly used term seems to be "distribution", as in the FAQ
or most web pages that talk about stable/testing/unstable.

I however find that this term is somewhat confusing as, for many
outsiders, "distribution" is usually taken as a general term to talk
about different operating systems distributions (or, more trivially
speaking, about "Linux distributions") such as "the Mandriva
distribution", "the Debian distribution" and the like.

A good example of why this may be confusing is the installer. The
debconf question that currently prompts users for choosing between
stable/testing/unstable is labelled: "Debian version to install" dans
says "Debian comes in several flavors...."
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Wouter Verhelst | 1 May 2006 10:46
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Re: irc.debian.org

On Mon, May 01, 2006 at 01:24:15AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> astronut <at> dlgeek.net wrote:
> 
> >>> I agree with Steve. While I agree that freenode has many flaws (the
> >>> biggest being NOIDPRIVMSG), I find that while I am in Debian channels on
> >> Exactly, why is an optional feature such a big flaw?
> >Because it's the default and practically no one changes it. This is a
> Maybe because actually it's not such a big deal? :-)

More likely, because it's hardly documented that this is the default and
because not many people know how to switch it off.

I know *I* had to bitch about it before being told where the
documentation was. And I forgot all about it in the mean time.

> >big problem, because on a network that offers so many support channels,
> >you have a lot of users who are on only to get a question answered (Foo
> >isn't working, what am I doing wrong?). These users have no desire, nor
> >real reason to register a nick. Also, there are lots of times I have
> They do not need to. If you want to receive their privated messages then
> *you* can disable NOIDPRIVMSG and they will not even know about it.

Only if they're lucky enough to try to ask someone who has NOIDPRIVMSG
disabled.

--

-- 
Fun will now commence
  -- Seven Of Nine, "Ashes to Ashes", stardate 53679.4
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Wouter Verhelst | 1 May 2006 10:49
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Re: irc.debian.org

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 07:25:50PM -0300, Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw) wrote:
> On 04/30/2006 05:46 PM, Frans Pop wrote:
> > On Sunday 30 April 2006 22:32, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > 
> >>Why not move it to Jabber?  More people use and know what Jabber is
> >>these days than IRC.
> > 
> > Just to prove you wrong: what the hell is Jabber?
> 
> 	It is an Instant Messaging Client.

No it's not. It's an IM protocol, implemented by many clients in Debian,
and by many servers on the 'Net.

> (like ICQ, MSN, GoogleTalk,

GoogleTalk, actually, uses the Jabber protocol.

--

-- 
Fun will now commence
  -- Seven Of Nine, "Ashes to Ashes", stardate 53679.4
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Jonas Smedegaard | 1 May 2006 11:12
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Re: About terminology for stable/testing/unstable

On Mon, 1 May 2006 10:10:20 +0200 Christian Perrier wrote:

> Distribution: used to talk about Debian in general, whichever branch
>               is used
> 
> Branch (or suite): used to talk about stable, testing and unstable
>                    and explain differences between all of them or the
>                    ways they are developed 
> 
> Release     : used to talk about the successive releases of
>               Debian as a distribution: potato, woody, sarge....as
>               well as the release updates
> 
> Version     : used when using numerical version numbers (3.1r2, etc..)
> 
> I understand this is somewhat tricky and it may become very easy to
> nitpick about the assumptions I made above but I'd really like to see
> us accept that not everything is easy to understand from an outsider
> point of view, in our terminology.
> 
> Comments welcomed (heh, I subscribed to -project just for this...)

I find the proposed clarifications quite accurate: To test, the
following sentence to makes sense (no word reuse for different
meanings):

when finalizing a branch of the Debian distribution, its internal
codename is used as official release name and a version number is
decided.
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Don Armstrong | 1 May 2006 10:57
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Re: irc.debian.org

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006, Joe Smith wrote:
> If the move is done, the FN channels should be kept open and the
> topic should redirect users to OFTC. Then any packages that
> reference the FN channel should be updated.

My point was that the people who really need help just follow
irc.debian.org; the people who are giving the help generally don't
connect directly to irc.debian.org [as they know which network they're
on.]

> Otherwise there would be split between the networks. 

There will always be a split between the networks; there are #debian
channels on most of the major networks.

Switching networks really won't cause the splits to go away; it'll
just change which network the majority of the conversations happen on
in the few cases where that hasn't changed already.

Don Armstrong

--

-- 
The sheer ponderousness of the panel's opinion ... refutes its thesis
far more convincingly than anything I might say. The panel's labored
effort to smother the Second Amendment by sheer body weight has all
the grace of a sumo wrestler trying to kill a rattlesnake by sitting
on it--and is just as likely to succeed.
 -- Alex Kozinski in Silveira V Lockyer

http://www.donarmstrong.com              http://rzlab.ucr.edu
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